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Dead Hybrid again, AFTER wire harness replacement!

Krrr

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My Hybrid was in going into sleep mode before I had it check out at oil change last month. But since sitting for a week during the Big Blow it is in deep sleep. No cab lights, no dash lights, but everything else. Speed determination is a problem.
Waiting for battery charger.
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Dad

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Dad

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Has anyone tried a 12V battery minder to keep the 12V battery charged when not in use for an extended period of time... or when it's extremely cold?
You can also check YouTube for comparisons and reviews on battery minders. I've been looking at the NOCO Direct Mount on-board battery maintainer. Stays in the truck. I'm just not sure if I want to mount it under the rear seat where the 12v located or under the hood where the access terminals are located which prompted me to question the confusion of both hood terminal posts labeled positive. Fortunately, members of MTC cleared that up. The YouTube reviews were great. Highly recommend. Here's the link to the NOCO on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GENIUS2...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
 

MakinDoForNow

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You can also check YouTube for comparisons and reviews on battery minders. I've been looking at the NOCO Direct Mount on-board battery maintainer. Stays in the truck. I'm just not sure if I want to mount it under the rear seat where the 12v located or under the hood where the access terminals are located which prompted me to question the confusion of both hood terminal posts labeled positive. Fortunately, members of MTC cleared that up. The YouTube reviews were great. Highly recommend. Here's the link to the NOCO on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GENIUS2D-Direct-Mount-Temperature-Compensation/dp/B07W3QSMF9/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2YBTY14LIK22E&keywords=noco+battery+tender&qid=1672979378&sprefix=NOCO+battery+tender,aps,175&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFMSUxGODVXQ1FQSUsmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA2MzYyMzQyVTVJSFpUQUMzSlBQJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAxMTg1NDA4RFkyWDZaSEdHVlomd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
I am going to install a permanent 12v lead on maverick as well as on my mowers, diesel tractor, Polaris ranger, plus others and plug a genius 10 into it when needed on each of things. Read all it does. 6&12v + USB & also a 10 amp power port. Sulfate detection & battery repair. etc. On sale 20% off 124.95 so only 99.67.
 
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JimParker256

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MinntoMich, I think using a deep-cycle battery in place of the battery type specified by Ford is not a great idea. There is a BMS (Battery Management System) that is "tuned" to the type of battery Ford specified. That means it knows how much charge the battery can take how quickly, etc.

Standard automotive 12V batteries are designed to be able to deliver a large "burst" of power (starting the engine) for a short amount of time, as well as absorb a very large amount of charge current over a short amount of time. That's why shortly after a jump start, you can often re-start the car with the "depleted" battery - it accepts a "quick charge" from the alternator that restores it fairly quickly.

Deep cycle (aka: "Marine") batteries are designed to deliver a steady flow of power over a much longer period of time, and to be able to recover from a relatively "deep" discharge condition, but prefer more "slow and steady" recharge current. You rarely see high-amp chargers used with marine or golf cart batteries.

How might those factors impact the BMS and therefore the rest of the electrical system? I have no idea, and I doubt Ford is publishing specs for their BMS... I'd be concerned that I'd be opening up yet another entire can of worms by switching battery architectures.
 

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Dad

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MinntoMich, I think using a deep-cycle battery in place of the battery type specified by Ford is not a great idea. There is a BMS (Battery Management System) that is "tuned" to the type of battery Ford specified. That means it knows how much charge the battery can take how quickly, etc.

Standard automotive 12V batteries are designed to be able to deliver a large "burst" of power (starting the engine) for a short amount of time, as well as absorb a very large amount of charge current over a short amount of time. That's why shortly after a jump start, you can often re-start the car with the "depleted" battery - it accepts a "quick charge" from the alternator that restores it fairly quickly.

Deep cycle (aka: "Marine") batteries are designed to deliver a steady flow of power over a much longer period of time, and to be able to recover from a relatively "deep" discharge condition, but prefer more "slow and steady" recharge current. You rarely see high-amp chargers used with marine or golf cart batteries.

How might those factors impact the BMS and therefore the rest of the electrical system? I have no idea, and I doubt Ford is publishing specs for their BMS... I'd be concerned that I'd be opening up yet another entire can of worms by switching battery architectures.
You bring up some great points and concerns. I tend to agree with you about tampering with the specs Ford has with their vehicles whether electrical, engine, suspension, or otherwise. Ford is in the business of manufacturing for a century and while they have made their share of mistakes, they have the experience. Some things should be left as is.
 

Bj517

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Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like a lot of these "deep sleep" complaints are coming from folks in the great white north. Perhaps it's a combination of some mysterious parasitic draw and lead / acid batteries doing poorly in lower temps.

I'd like it for my interior lights to illuminate when I open the door. I don't think I should have to drive 30 miles to have this happen.
Deep sleep issues are definitely cold weather related, or at least they seem to be.

I'm not even in the great white north, but I started getting constant deep sleep messages that coincided with the cold weather here in NC.

During the warm spell we've for the past week or so, not a single deep sleep messages. I think these little 12v batteries just can't handle moderately cold weather.
 

MakinDoForNow

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MinntoMich, I think using a deep-cycle battery in place of the battery type specified by Ford is not a great idea. There is a BMS (Battery Management System) that is "tuned" to the type of battery Ford specified. That means it knows how much charge the battery can take how quickly, etc.

Standard automotive 12V batteries are designed to be able to deliver a large "burst" of power (starting the engine) for a short amount of time, as well as absorb a very large amount of charge current over a short amount of time. That's why shortly after a jump start, you can often re-start the car with the "depleted" battery - it accepts a "quick charge" from the alternator that restores it fairly quickly.

Deep cycle (aka: "Marine") batteries are designed to deliver a steady flow of power over a much longer period of time, and to be able to recover from a relatively "deep" discharge condition, but prefer more "slow and steady" recharge current. You rarely see high-amp chargers used with marine or golf cart batteries.

How might those factors impact the BMS and therefore the rest of the electrical system? I have no idea, and I doubt Ford is publishing specs for their BMS... I'd be concerned that I'd be opening up yet another entire can of worms by switching battery architectures.
The noco genius can be selected for 6v/12v, flooded lead, agm, lithium and remembers prior setting. I am considering having Ford install at next oil change. Someone posted they sell noco's but I have not confirmed that or got price yet. I stopped in yesterday to discuss with maintenance manager at my dealer but I got there just after his day ended and missed him. The manual (whatever it's worth) states that after installing new battery to run procedure which will let bms learn state of new battery, all accessories turned off and truck Locked and undisturbed not even opening door for a period that can take up to 8 hours. Also states that charging with off vehicle charger may result in that procedure needing to be done. I may need a new battery as the one that came with my hybrid will furnish or lose as much as 0.3v in a 24 hour period. My truck has always readied to be driven and never slept. Even the time the battery was down to 11.6v but that makes me nervous and will soon kill battery. I have not measured yet but maybe a second 99R Ford battery could be added to increase capacity but I suspect not. It may well be worth it to just have Ford install maintainer or wait until Ford finds solution. Experience over years for me is if anything electrical comes apparent to REPLACE BATTERY EVEN IF ITS ONLY SIX MONTHS OLD! Thanks for your input.
 

Dad

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Deep sleep issues are definitely cold weather related, or at least they seem to be.

I'm not even in the great white north, but I started getting constant deep sleep messages that coincided with the cold weather here in NC.

During the warm spell we've for the past week or so, not a single deep sleep messages. I think these little 12v batteries just can't handle moderately cold weather.
"Cold" weather is somewhat obscure. "Cold" in my region is anything under 55Āŗ. I'm sure in more northern areas, that would be considered t-shirt weather. My hybrid also has deep sleep issues, but I haven't seen much of a correlation to temperatures unless extremes.
 

Bj517

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"Cold" weather is somewhat obscure. "Cold" in my region is anything under 55Āŗ. I'm sure in more northern areas, that would be considered t-shirt weather. My hybrid also has deep sleep issues, but I haven't seen much of a correlation to temperatures unless extremes.
Here, I'd say cold for us is days in the 40s, maybe 50s, and lows below freezing at night. When those temps started to hit regularly was when deep sleep started popping up a lot for me.
 
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Dad

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Here, I'd say cold for us is days in the 40s, maybe 50s, and lows below freezing at night. When those temps started to hit regularly was when deep sleep started popping up a lot for me.
With those temperatures, I can see how they might affect the battery system. Thanks for the response.
 

Random

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I start my 2011 mini van about once a month and it works every time. My 11 month old truck is what I have concerns with sadly.
 

mrbill

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GEE and im waiting over 15 months,!!! for a build , I hope the 2023 has less issues, my wifes 2016 kia soul has NEVER been in the shop. only mtce. scarey !!
 

Bj517

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It has been single digit temps here for a long time and we have no issues, and the local dealer service manager says he hasnā€™t had any come in for this.
Our hybrid 12v batteries are a lot smaller than what's used in the ecoboost - they don't need the extra umph to power a traditional starter. Maybe the smaller size is why they're more susceptible to the cold.
 

Falcon first

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Iā€™ve only had the deep sleep message in the 4 day cold spell around Christmas when it got down in the low to mid teens at night and we didnā€™t drive for two days. It went away when it warmed up and we started driving again but two to three days of no driving should not impact any vehicle or its a terrible design.
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