Dead Hybrid again, AFTER wire harness replacement!

[WeylandYutani]

Two months after my hybrid received a new wire harness due to the well documented TSB, it died again after sitting for 2 weeks in an airport parking garage.

This time it wouldn't even jump start (and I became quite familiar with jump starting it previously). Tried two different jump packs and the old fashioned way with another running car. Accessory power came on when the jumpers were connected but unlike before, the Maverick wouldn't crank. Dashboard warnings included "Charging System Service Now" and "Stop Safely Now."

Other notes:
1. Maverick is a Lariat hybrid with push button start.
2. 12V battery voltage was below 7.0 both at the battery and under the hood! Similar voltage at both locations.
3. As with much of the US, it was cold but not what I would consider a unique use case. It dipped to 18 deg F two nights during this time and was over 40 deg F when I tried to start it.
4. No "Deep Sleep" warnings from the FordPass app prior to not starting.
5. GPS location was wonky for the first time ever. A couple days into the trip I checked the FordPass app and the vehicle location was a couple blocks from my house, not where I had left it. At the time, I attributed it to a poor signal due to being in a parking garage, but it has correctly reported its location in other garages.
6. Vehicle has sat unused for 3+ weeks before with no issues, but at my house in the summer within WiFi range.

My best guess is the HVB SOC dropped below the minimum needed to crank the ICE, or the HVB wiring degraded to create a similar condition. Either that or the vehicle somehow recognized the 12V battery was so hosed it wouldn't allow it to start even while jumping.

Thoughts? Anyone else experience anything similar?

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[Gullzway]

Sorry to hear this. Sounds like a dead/bad battery.

 

[NJBob]

Was the battery replaced? Could be the battery was damaged by deep discharge

 

[WeylandYutani]

Was the battery replaced? Could be the battery was damaged by deep discharge

12V battery was not replaced after the wire harness TSB was performed per my service records. It's highly plausible the battery was damaged by deep discharge when the wire harness connection was bad.

But why wouldn't it jump start this time when it previously did?

 

[MostlySafeBear]

I can't remember where I read it, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that Ford recommends that the vehicle be run at least once every week, maybe two. If you can't, then pull the 12 volt battery negative cable to disconnect it before storage, because any modern vehicle will slowly drain the battery.

Use your blade key to get into the cab.

 

[MM Mav]

@WeylandYutani sorry for this frustration. Hopefully it is easily fixable! Keep us posted please.

 

[B2000]

12V battery was not replaced after the wire harness TSB was performed per my service records. It's highly plausible the battery was damaged by deep discharge when the wire harness connection was bad.

But why wouldn't it jump start this time when it previously did?

My lithium jump starter will not work in the normal mode if the battery voltage is below a set level. It does have an override which turns off the safety features and may then work to start the car. I had to do this on a CR-V with chronic battery issues because the voltage was so low. Replacing the battery under warranty seems like the best move.

 

[GA Hot Pepper]

Does anyone know if this issue was corrected on later production vehicles, or 2023 models?

 

[Dad]

I can't remember where I read it, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that Ford recommends that the vehicle be run at least once every week, maybe two. If you can't, then pull the 12 volt battery negative cable to disconnect it before storage, because any modern vehicle will slowly drain the battery.

Use your blade key to get into the cab.

This is good advice. I have one of those blade type negative disconnect switches on my motor home which sits for long periods.

Here's an Amazon link.
https://www.amazon.com/Ampper-Battery-Disconnect-Isolator-Vehicles/dp/B07JZ9NDH2

 

[Dad]

My lithium jump starter will not work in the normal mode if the battery voltage is below a set level. It does have an override which turns off the safety features and may then work to start the car. I had to do this on a CR-V with chronic battery issues because the voltage was so low. Replacing the battery under warranty seems like the best move.

I found out same. Those lithium jump starters, while portable and convenient to use, are not designed for vehicles that need more than one or two crank overs. You need the old fashioned lead-acid, AGM to handle an extended load. Got this advice from AAA tech who jumped my E-450 Ford V10 with one. Handled it with ease. Amazon has them. Stay away from the Vector brand you'll see at Home Depot. Wouldn't start a motorcycle, let alone a car.

Edit: If you have a hybrid, the lithium jump should be enough since I believe you are starting up the electric motor. If I have that wrong, I invite corrections.
Update: since this post I’ve done more research on the lithium jump starters and wow, they really pack a punch. Big improvement. I went to YouTube to find out the best ones.

 

[Jatrax]

This makes mean wonder:
- If the HV battery is dead, then there is no way to start the vehicle?
- If the HV battery is dead, how do you charge it?
- If the 12v battery is dead it has been proven that jumping with a jump box will turn on the computer and allow the truck to be started by the HV battery.
- I believe the 12v battery is charged by the HV battery.
- I believe that the 'deep sleep' status is designed to stop (slow?) the draws on the 12v battery so that the HV battery does not drain itself by charging the 12v battery.
- So what happens if the 'deep sleep' is not enough and the HV battery does get drained?

Not saying anything, just things I think are true and things that make me wonder. If anyone knows how to start the truck with a dead HV battery that would be good information to have.

 

[sockeye]

Two months after my hybrid received a new wire harness due to the well documented TSB, it died again after sitting for 2 weeks in an airport parking garage.

This time it wouldn't even jump start (and I became quite familiar with jump starting it previously). Tried two different jump packs and the old fashioned way with another running car. Accessory power came on when the jumpers were connected but unlike before, the Maverick wouldn't crank. Dashboard warnings included "Charging System Service Now" and "Stop Safely Now."

Other notes:
1. Maverick is a Lariat hybrid with push button start.
2. 12V battery voltage was below 7.0 both at the battery and under the hood! Similar voltage at both locations.
3. As with much of the US, it was cold but not what I would consider a unique use case. It dipped to 18 deg F two nights during this time and was over 40 deg F when I tried to start it.
4. No "Deep Sleep" warnings from the FordPass app prior to not starting.
5. GPS location was wonky for the first time ever. A couple days into the trip I checked the FordPass app and the vehicle location was a couple blocks from my house, not where I had left it. At the time, I attributed it to a poor signal due to being in a parking garage, but it has correctly reported its location in other garages.
6. Vehicle has sat unused for 3+ weeks before with no issues, but at my house in the summer within WiFi range.

My best guess is the HVB SOC dropped below the minimum needed to crank the ICE, or the HVB wiring degraded to create a similar condition. Either that or the vehicle somehow recognized the 12V battery was so hosed it wouldn't allow it to start even while jumping.

Thoughts? Anyone else experience anything similar?

My 2022 XLT hybrid did something similar a couple weeks ago. It was cold, about 0 F. The truck had sat overnight. I tried to remote start it in the morning using the key fob. No response. Probing the battery at the posts yielded 6 volts! Something had drawn the battery down that far. No, I didn't leave the dome light on. No accessories plugged in, no dash cam. Put a charger on it, and got it to start, but got a check engine light....."internal fault in a control module" and "fault in the high voltage system". The truck had been in deep sleep mode for a couple -3 weeks, but always started.

It's at the dealer now. So far, they say they've reset the BMS. I doubt that's a long term fix, as Iv'e done that procedure myself once to cure (temporarily) the deep sleep issue. Ford needs to address these electrical gremlins ASAP.

 

[Jatrax]

Those lithium jump starters, while portable and convenient to use, are not designed for vehicles that need more than one or two crank overs.

Don't know about all brands but my NOCO jump box has started my E-450 several times with no issues. As well as my Highlander and a couple other people's vehicles. I think some of those Amazon 'jump boxes' don't have much in the way of actual cranking amps. But a good quality brand like NOCO will definitely do the job.

 

[B2000]

I found out same. Those lithium jump starters, while portable and convenient to use, are not designed for vehicles that need more than one or two crank overs. You need the old fashioned lead-acid, AGM to handle an extended load. Got this advice from AAA tech who jumped my E-450 Ford V10 with one. Handled it with ease. Amazon has them. Stay away from the Vector brand you'll see at Home Depot. Wouldn't start a motorcycle, let alone a car.

Mine will start anything I have tried but like I said if the voltage is really low you have to turn off the safety features. Once you do that it cranks and starts with no problems. You need to make sure you have the cables on the right posts which is no problem but that is what one of the safety features does if you hook it up wrong. It lives in my trunk and never loses more than 10-15% charge.

Mine is the: HULKMAN Alpha85 Jump Starter 2000 Amp 20000mAh Car Starter for up to 8.5L Gas and 6L Diesel Engines.

I did have a really small one about the size of a deck of cards and it was way underpowered except maybe for a motorcycle.

 

[Dad]

Don't know about all brands but my NOCO jump box has started my E-450 several times with no issues. As well as my Highlander and a couple other people's vehicles. I think some of those Amazon 'jump boxes' don't have much in the way of actual cranking amps. But a good quality brand like NOCO will definitely do the job.

Good to know. Quality in the brand probably has much to do as well as the cranking amps.

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