Hybrid Tech's future

[Watchman]

One of them posed an interesting question ... while hybrid tech has been around for quite awhile now, not many automakers have jumped on it and is there even a future for it with the 100% electric everything revolution in full swing?

For me it would make sense as 90% of my driving is under 25mph in congested NYC and would give me great fuel economy but it got me thinking
What is the future of hybrid if any once electric prices creep down.

What are your thoughts?

All Electric vs Hybrid:
For me and a lot of Floridians who have been through some rough Hurricane seasons the Hybrid is about as perfect as it gets. In 2004-2005 I evacuated my family four times. With 1000 people a day moving to Florida that situation would be much worse than it was in "04-05". Depending on what region you live in and the predictions of landfall you could be stranded on the highway left with a dead EV battery. I've seen all lanes of the interstates only going North and everyone at a stand still. I live between Tampa and Ft. Myer and everyone was going North' . . . THER ARE NO HOTELS vacancies until you get near or past the Florida border.

Beyond all the other positives, the Hybrid Maverick is perfect -- with a full tank I can just strap a couple of gas cans in the bed and I will have the power to keep going until I find a place to stay. Gas can be hard to find too so even non-hybrids are at risk to be stranded (we saw plenty of stranded cars and trucks). I can't imagine not running the AC in Florida's summer driving hundreds of miles bumper-to-bumper trying to save the EV battery.

For any of you out there who moved to Florida after 2005, this is what you could be up against - it wasn't fun. The bad news is . . . we're DUE.

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[skadizzle]

All Electric vs Hybrid:
For me and a lot of Floridians who have been through some rough Hurricane seasons the Hybrid is about as perfect as it gets. In 2004-2005 I evacuated my family four times. With 1000 people a day moving to Florida that situation would be much worse than it was in "04-05". Depending on what region you live in and the predictions of landfall you could be stranded on the highway left with a dead EV battery. I've seen all lanes of the interstates only going North and everyone at a stand still. I live between Tampa and Ft. Myer and everyone was going North' . . . THER ARE NO HOTELS vacancies until you get near or past the Florida border.

Beyond all the other positives, the Hybrid Maverick is perfect -- with a full tank I can just strap a couple of gas cans in the bed and I will have the power to keep going until I find a place to stay. Gas can be hard to find too so even non-hybrids are at risk to be stranded (we saw plenty of stranded cars and trucks). I can't imagine not running the AC in Florida's summer driving hundreds of miles bumper-to-bumper trying to save the EV battery.

For any of you out there who moved to Florida after 2005, this is what you could be up against - it wasn't fun. The bad news is . . . we're DUE.

I've lived in FL my whole life. I'm in the Orlando area so we never got it that bad when it comes to hurricanes. Even for those four hurricanes, we only lost power for two weeks. That said, the infrastructure is definitely not there yet in FL for EVs. Sure, you can ride the Turnpike and have Superchargers at every Service Plaza, but it won't help you when evacuating and 5,000 people are doing the same thing.

 

[Fisheyelid]

My question is more about the future of the hybrid technology? Do you think it has a future, as it seems it didn't have much of an uptick over the years in automakers adopting it.

I work for an automotive parts manufacturer. What we see is that companies are going heavy on full electric, and skipping hybrid. Our business is currently transforming from supplying ICE related components to EV related components. We don't see hybrids ever having a large market share. Ford's new EVs (Mach E and the Lightning) are selling way better than originally anticipated. There is a lot more demand for EVs than anyone knew.

 

[TopGunGoose]

BAsically what you are saying is, our infrastructure isn't ready for it.

And won't be unless we build Nuclear power, renewables won't cut it.

4x Tesla chargers require the same power output as 500 homes use in a day. It does not scale with ANY renewable energy that isn't nuclear fission.

The max amount of cars that can be charged from those 4 chargers is 200-250 cars to full charge from near depletion.

People who think EV's scale at any junction have no clue how much power those chargers use.


350kW for 4 chargers. That same energy use brings over a tanker of oil which then powers 10,000 cars for a month.

Energy DENSITY is the name of the game and full EV doesn't cut it.

 

[bgillen35]

As other Floridians have pointed out, a full EV is not viable if that is your only means of transportation down here.

I was considering the Mach E for a while, but with my wife having a real Mustang, the Mach E would be the family vehicle and even though it would be perfect for 90% of my driving, I'm not ready to commit to planning out charging points if I simply want to drive from Orlando to Tampa to see our inlaws on the weekends.

 

[Aherpa]

Was having a chat this weekend with a few family members who are all in the market for cars / trucks in the immediate and near future and mentioned to them that I am wanting to pickup a Hybrid Maverick.

One of them posed an interesting question ... while hybrid tech has been around for quite awhile now, not many automakers have jumped on it and is there even a future for it with the 100% electric everything revolution in full swing?

For me it would make sense as 90% of my driving is under 25mph in congested NYC and would give me great fuel economy but it got me thinking
What is the future of hybrid if any once electric prices creep down.

What are your thoughts?

A basic observation about electric vehicles. . . where will the power to charge them come from and how much will it cost after all the tax money spent in the process?

For 99.9% power will probably come from the grid. That's the same grid that is experiencing brown outs and black outs now and has a 5-15% loss rate over distance. To make the grid capable of supporting everyone having an electric vehicle, it would need to have more power plants built and brought online. What do those power plants look like? Solar, wind, coal, natural gas, nuclear, bio fuels?

Solar and wind power? The wind does not blow all the time and sunshine can be effected by clouds and the time of year. Solar is at it's lowest in the winter when we need energy the most. Plus, there is a huge environmental impact to make solar panels, wind turbines and the batteries to store supposedly 'clean' energy.
The recycling of the equipment for solar, wind and batteries has been problematic. Some of the basic materials are recovered, but for the most part if you want a new solar cell, the actual cells must be made from new materials. The Maverick supposedly uses ground up carbon fiber from wind turbine blades, but we still need petroleum to make the glues they use for blades.

Mention nuclear power and most people cringe, but the newer class of generators are far less complicated and safer than the ones we are shutting down now and they can use the spent fuel rods that are already stored underground. It's estimated that there's 750 years of energy still in those rods that the new generators could use and not need to be refueled.

How about batteries? Solid state batteries promise faster recharges, discharges, high current rates and better recycling, but they're still being figured out.

If residents installed solar panels and batteries on their house to charge their vehicle and run their house, it would still mean using components that are not as 'green' as advertised.

I'm not saying these, and more, issues cannot be figured out with good engineering but politics and good engineering don't mix. The politics of 'green energy' promises the moon but in reality, 'green' is measured in degrees and is not an absolute.

Having a mix of vehicles that have diverse fuel requirements, ICE, hybrid, PIV, NG, LPG or whatever, is a good thing. Going all electric sounds great, but it's decidedly not green and has issues that engineers are just starting to point out, but they are not being heard by 'policy makers'.

Thanks for reading. Good luck to everyone getting a great truck.

 

[stoptothink]

And won't be unless we build Nuclear power, renewables won't cut it.

4x Tesla chargers require the same power output as 500 homes use in a day. It does not scale with ANY renewable energy that isn't nuclear fission.

The max amount of cars that can be charged from those 4 chargers is 200-250 cars to full charge from near depletion.

People who think EV's scale at any junction have no clue how much power those chargers use.


350kW for 4 chargers. That same energy use brings over a tanker of oil which then powers 10,000 cars for a month.

Energy DENSITY is the name of the game and full EV doesn't cut it.

The infrastructure simply isn't there and it won't be for decades. Of course this is totally ignored by virtue-signaling media, politicians, celebs, etc. FWIW, the Maverick will almost assuredly be our last vehicle with an internal combustion engine, but we have minimal transportation needs (I work from home, wife commutes 20 miles 2 days a week - plus we have long-range e-bikes), a garage where we can install a charger, and we can easily afford a $50k+ vehicle; it'll be a while before EVs make sense for most average families.

 

[Bear]

Here is my 2 cents on Plug-In Hybrid. I use to own a 2019 Honda Clarity and loved it. It had a 7 gallon gas tank (should have been 10 gallons) and combined with the battery I had a range of 350 miles. During the warmer months I could get at least 50 miles on the battery and never had to use the ICE. On average I used about 3 gallons a month and my electric bill went up 60 bucks a month.

I installed a 220 line my garage so I didn't have to hire it out which saved me some money. I just had to buy some 10 gauge wire and the charger ($450.00). I also got 8 buck a month from DTE b/c I charged my Clarity off peak times...it's not much but something is better than nothing.

Right now, I use about 21 gallons a week in my 2010 Ford Taurus. That puts me spending about $220(ish) for gas per month. If you do the math, I was way better off with my Honda Clarity. I was able to plug in at work and that helped out with the savings. So, why did I sell my Honda...Because I ordered up the Maverick hybrid back in October thinking it would only be 4 months wait (stupid me ) and I'm still waiting if your wondering.

If I had to do it again, I would not have sold my Clarity, order up the Maverick hybrid and just play the waiting game. I think Plug-in Hybrid are great b/c I still had the ICE when the battery goes low.

 

[inthecabin]

haha ok mr. sarcasm ... of course they are out there but will there be further investment in the hybrid tech?
For some vehiles like the Maverick it returns big fuel economy gains but in something like the F150 it still only gives you 23pmg tops.

Only 23mpg for a full size truck

 

[Theunknown_87]

Reality is full electric vehicles (BEV) are already outselling Hybrids (HEV) and Plug-in Hybrids (PHEV) by 3-1 globally. Europe has already set 2035 as the last year a Hybrid can be sold new.
The real question is when will the US do the same, and what will gas cost in 2035 or 2040. Since gasoline will not go away entirely in the US, some forcast gas will be really cheap but taxed high.

And THIS is the problem, gas never has had to be high. Increase production here, export what we don't use. Cheap gas, bingo.
All politicians getting greedy, as usual.
Never would have been a need for electric, or hybrid.
But forcing people to choose and taxing gas highly, will result terribly.
But, me, I'm all in for a PHEV, just stuff is unaffordable for everyday folks.

 

[NewBernWolf]

Was having a chat this weekend with a few family members who are all in the market for cars / trucks in the immediate and near future and mentioned to them that I am wanting to pickup a Hybrid Maverick.

One of them posed an interesting question ... while hybrid tech has been around for quite awhile now, not many automakers have jumped on it and is there even a future for it with the 100% electric everything revolution in full swing?

For me it would make sense as 90% of my driving is under 25mph in congested NYC and would give me great fuel economy but it got me thinking
What is the future of hybrid if any once electric prices creep down.

What are your thoughts?

I think hybrids fill a niche which EV's won't replace anytime soon. Even though the technology and builds for EV's become more and more mainstream, people who live in rental units without charging stations and people who commute to jobs (or adventures) where charging stations are limited or non-existent, those drivers are going to be justifiably hesitant to go all in on EV's.

I think that'll change as charging stations become as ubiquitous as gas stations, but right now, there are a whole lot of us who can't wait to jump into plug-in hybrids as a mid-point choice.

 

[Watchman]

My thoughts exactly about the Quik Trips ...why have they not added EV stations?

Actually, I was driving home from Colorado this past August and stopped at a Pilot Travel Center (new build) outside of Wichita Falls, Tx and it had about 10 Tesla charging stations. What a nice surprise! This is a rural county along a major Highway 287. I just think it will take time to build the infrastructure. Is it there no .... but someone, somewhere will solve the problem.

I posted a while back on this forum (another thread) about the Wireless Charging Technology that will change the game to charge EVs.. I have followed this technology since I first saw it in Vegas at the CES show in 2005. There has been quite a few companies working on this around the globe. The technology has evolved from straight "Induction" to "Magnetic Resonance" which was another of Nikola Tesla's inventions. Will they be able to charge EV's while driving down the road? . . . I think so.

I think the leaders in this technology are close to getting it to market. I will provide the links to the two companies I believe are leading the way so you can follow them as well - if you wish. Over 80% of people aren't willing to 'Plug in" because let's face it, we're lazy. That's why we have MIT!

https://spectrum.ieee.org/witricity-leverages-magnetic-resonance-for-flexible-wireless-charging

https://www.magment.co/magment-magpad/

 

[Meintc]

When I lived in a big city, I thought an all electric would be a great idea. The lower maintenance costs for a daily commute of less than 50 miles. I thought, the prices will eventually come down (they haven't) and they will become affordable. Then I moved back to rural Kansas and spent three years driving six miles to work, and 250 miles to get my parents to their doctors in the nearest metropolitan area. As gas prices continue to rise, a hybrid, for most of us in the middle of the US, is the middle ground.

This is my objection to all electric. 2years ago I had to drive my spouse every 2 weeks to Ann Arbor because of Leukemia. That is about a 4 hour drive just to get there, then several hours for the hospital then 4 hours back. I had to do it all in one day due to limited time off. To schedule stopping time to charge would have taken even longer. Time I didn't have to spare.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I'm not ready (as are many) to deep-dive into all-electric. If I choose a spontaneous drive to the coast, I don't want the logistical issue of planning charge stops. Nor do I want to install home charging infrastructure now as I believe it is still non-standard and evolutionary - subject to rapid change.

IC vehicles are here for a while, the Maverick is a way for me to dip my toes into the electric vehicle world without the plunge.

The way things are looking finding a petroleum refill point may take more planning than electric recharging. ?????

 

[JBnorthTX]

Let me disagree with with the notion that the future of hybrid technology is a plugin option. As time goes on, hybrid technology has diverged from the development electric cars. No longer is a hybrid an electric car with an onboard gasoline powered generator. The motors are different, the batteries are different and the charging systems are different.

Public perception seems stuck on the notion that all you need to do is add a bigger (10x) battery and you can plug it in and have the best of both worlds. This negates all the engineering that has gone into the development of this modern hybrid which gets 40 mpg and has the power to accelerate a not so light truck. Past attempts-- the C-max plugin-- have resulted a vehicle which does neither very well.

I think the future lies in developing this technology for bigger and bigger vehicles. An f150 with an ecvt transmission and 35 mpg to start. No plug-in.

I don't think many believe plug-ins are a long term answer. They are a very good option right now and the for the next few years until EV prices drop and there is a lot more charging infrastructure throughout the country.

I work for an automotive parts manufacturer. What we see is that companies are going heavy on full electric, and skipping hybrid. Our business is currently transforming from supplying ICE related components to EV related components. We don't see hybrids ever having a large market share. Ford's new EVs (Mach E and the Lightning) are selling way better than originally anticipated. There is a lot more demand for EVs than anyone knew.

That makes sense because the automakers must look forward and plan for the longer term, and there's already plenty of high income customers who can afford EVs from Tesla, Porsche, etc.

But many consumers won't skip hybrids because of shortcomings of EV ownership that will take a few years to resolve.

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