Dead Hybrid again, AFTER wire harness replacement!

[Jatrax]

Quality in the brand probably has much to do as well as the cranking amps.

Size of the 'jump box' as well. NOCO has boxes from 1200 amp to 4250 amp. I suspect most of the cheaper Amazon ones are far less. I see a lot of folks saying "I got a jump box" but not what SIZE jump box. A lot of the ones on Amazon show "peak amps" which is not a good way to rate something that is trying to crank a starter motor. It's technically not a lie, but it is deceiving.

NOCO isn't cheap but its well made and works. I've had mine for 8 or 9 years and it still works great. Just used it last week on my Jeep.

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[Darnon]

This makes mean wonder:
- If the HV battery is dead, then there is no way to start the vehicle?
- If the HV battery is dead, how do you charge it?
- If the 12v battery is dead it has been proven that jumping with a jump box will turn on the computer and allow the truck to be started by the HV battery.
- I believe the 12v battery is charged by the HV battery.
- I believe that the 'deep sleep' status is designed to stop (slow?) the draws on the 12v battery so that the HV battery does not drain itself by charging the 12v battery.
- So what happens if the 'deep sleep' is not enough and the HV battery does get drained?

Not saying anything, just things I think are true and things that make me wonder. If anyone knows how to start the truck with a dead HV battery that would be good information to have.

If the HV is dead then it needs to be charged by special equipment to do so such as at a dealership. But there is rare reason that the HV battery should become drained that low because the HV batt management controller is programmed to prevent it.

Deep sleep doesn't [need to] prevent the HV battery from charging the 12V battery when the vehicle is shut off because in that state the HV battery is disconnected via contactor (switch/relay). That is why jump starting underhood will typically wake a hybrid that the battery harness connector has failed on; there is now 12V power to close the contactor and thus the DC-DC converter is powering the low voltage side of the vehicle off the HVB.

 

[Jatrax]

Deep sleep doesn't [need to] prevent the HV battery from charging the 12V battery when the vehicle is shut off because in that state the HV battery is disconnected via contactor (switch/relay).

So the Deep Sleep is meant to protect the 12v battery only not the HV battery. Ok makes sense, and explains why jumping the 12v will allow the truck to start via HV battery.

If the HV is dead then it needs to be charged by special equipment to do so such as at a dealership. But there is rare reason that the HV battery should become drained that low because the HV batt management controller is programmed to prevent it.

So in (rare case) the HV battery is dead then it's a tow to dealer? Or do service trucks have the ability to charge it in the field? Guessing no because unless the BMS failed to do its job the HV battery would never be dead in the first place so there are other issues besides a dead battery.

I guess dead HV would be the same as a fried starter motor on an ICE vehicle. Not going to start without professional help.

 

[tkistre]

Don't know about all brands but my NOCO jump box has started my E-450 several times with no issues. As well as my Highlander and a couple other people's vehicles. I think some of those Amazon 'jump boxes' don't have much in the way of actual cranking amps. But a good quality brand like NOCO will definitely do the job.

I agree with you on NOCO. You just have to make sure you get a model capable of the type and size of engine.

 

[Dad]

Mine will start anything I have tried but like I said if the voltage is really low you have to turn off the safety features. Once you do that it cranks and starts with no problems. You need to make sure you have the cables on the right posts which is no problem but that is what one of the safety features does if you hook it up wrong. It lives in my trunk and never loses more than 10-15% charge.

Mine is the: HULKMAN Alpha85 Jump Starter 2000 Amp 20000mAh Car Starter for up to 8.5L Gas and 6L Diesel Engines.

I did have a really small one about the size of a deck of cards and it was way underpowered except maybe for a motorcycle.

Thanks for the information. Looks like the Hulkman Alpha85 is out of stock as well as most of their other models. I suppose that's a good indication of how well they work. Browsing Amazon, I noticed the lithium jumpers are getting more and more powerful. I'll have to look into that. I, also, have a smaller lithium tucked away in my hybrid's bed. Have only used it on the E-450 (big fail). I suppose I'll have to wait and see how it works on the Maverick, but not sure if I want to take that risk. I like to be prepared for most any situation while on the road, so I may just have to pony up the extra $$.

 

[Dad]

Size of the 'jump box' as well. NOCO has boxes from 1200 amp to 4250 amp. I suspect most of the cheaper Amazon ones are far less. I see a lot of folks saying "I got a jump box" but not what SIZE jump box. A lot of the ones on Amazon show "peak amps" which is not a good way to rate something that is trying to crank a starter motor. It's technically not a lie, but it is deceiving.

NOCO isn't cheap but its well made and works. I've had mine for 8 or 9 years and it still works great. Just used it last week on my Jeep.

You probably know this, but Amazon does carry the NOCO line, and you are correct about the discrepancy between 'peak' and 'cranking' amps.
By the way, which NOCO do you have? What is the amp rating?

 

[WeylandYutani]

My 2022 XLT hybrid did something similar a couple weeks ago. It was cold, about 0 F. The truck had sat overnight. I tried to remote start it in the morning using the key fob. No response. Probing the battery at the posts yielded 6 volts! Something had drawn the battery down that far. No, I didn't leave the dome light on. No accessories plugged in, no dash cam. Put a charger on it, and got it to start, but got a check engine light....."internal fault in a control module" and "fault in the high voltage system". The truck had been in deep sleep mode for a couple -3 weeks, but always started.

It's at the dealer now. So far, they say they've reset the BMS. I doubt that's a long term fix, as Iv'e done that procedure myself once to cure (temporarily) the deep sleep issue. Ford needs to address these electrical gremlins ASAP.

Sorry to hear this but you're right, this is very similar to my situation.

Did you already have the wire harness replaced per the TSB?

 

[Dad]

Don't know about all brands but my NOCO jump box has started my E-450 several times with no issues. As well as my Highlander and a couple other people's vehicles. I think some of those Amazon 'jump boxes' don't have much in the way of actual cranking amps. But a good quality brand like NOCO will definitely do the job.

Which NOCO jump starter do you have?

 

[Jatrax]

Which NOCO jump starter do you have?

Amazon does carry the full NOCO line. Just type NOCO into Amazon. It's quite a list.
Mine is a GB40 something. It's an older model but they still have a similar one listed as GB40. It's listed as 1,000 amps. My son got it for me for Christmas at least 8 years ago. I have used it to power our tablet / credit card reader at craft shows for years, works great. And then you can jump start the car when you are ready to leave the craft show. Which I have actually done twice.

I also have a NOCO battery charger / conditioner on my motorhome. The leads are wired solid to the battery and it disconnects from those with a quick disconnect. Also has the regular sawtooth grips so can be used elsewhere as a charger. I don't have the model on that but I think it is part of their Genius line.

Here is the attachment accessory. I like it because I'm not grinding up the battery posts on the E450 when I put the charger on. I leave the charger on it on when we are not using it.

Amazon.com: NOCO GC002 X-Connect M6 Eyelet Terminal Accessory for NOCO Genius Smart Battery Chargers : Automotive

 

[sockeye]

Sorry to hear this but you're right, this is very similar to my situation.

Did you already have the wire harness replaced per the TSB?

No. I asked the service dept. guy to check it, but I doubt they will. When I probe the voltage at the jump points under the hood, (and I've done this a few times), the voltage is comparable to the voltage taken at the battery. Perhaps .1 or .2 less. I'm hoping my harness is ok, but my build date does fall into the bad harness window

 

[Mikknj]

Two months after my hybrid received a new wire harness due to the well documented TSB, it died again after sitting for 2 weeks in an airport parking garage.

This time it wouldn't even jump start (and I became quite familiar with jump starting it previously). Tried two different jump packs and the old fashioned way with another running car. Accessory power came on when the jumpers were connected but unlike before, the Maverick wouldn't crank. Dashboard warnings included "Charging System Service Now" and "Stop Safely Now."

Other notes:
1. Maverick is a Lariat hybrid with push button start.
2. 12V battery voltage was below 7.0 both at the battery and under the hood! Similar voltage at both locations.
3. As with much of the US, it was cold but not what I would consider a unique use case. It dipped to 18 deg F two nights during this time and was over 40 deg F when I tried to start it.
4. No "Deep Sleep" warnings from the FordPass app prior to not starting.
5. GPS location was wonky for the first time ever. A couple days into the trip I checked the FordPass app and the vehicle location was a couple blocks from my house, not where I had left it. At the time, I attributed it to a poor signal due to being in a parking garage, but it has correctly reported its location in other garages.
6. Vehicle has sat unused for 3+ weeks before with no issues, but at my house in the summer within WiFi range.

My best guess is the HVB SOC dropped below the minimum needed to crank the ICE, or the HVB wiring degraded to create a similar condition. Either that or the vehicle somehow recognized the 12V battery was so hosed it wouldn't allow it to start even while jumping.

Thoughts? Anyone else experience anything similar?

Hi So sorry -

I had a condition a couple weeks back where the truck was off but my parking lights were on. I think I had manually rotated the light switch to parking -- I was surprised when it happened. I would need to test this and see what it was I did to cause it to happen but that is my guess. At the time it happened I said to my self - oh well that's not good. I then put the lights back on auto and locked the car. They went out. Hmmm? anyone else?

 

[Montevilla]

Is the wifi and auto-updates on? I've turned both those off and have no problems with the battery since.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

12V battery was not replaced after the wire harness TSB was performed per my service records. It's highly plausible the battery was damaged by deep discharge when the wire harness connection was bad.

But why wouldn't it jump start this time when it previously did?

What is the minimum voltage required by your jump starter needed to verify that it is connected to a 12v battery? My noco requires 2v. Maybe yours requires more volts to recognize 12v battery and thought you had a fully charged 6v battery. Does your jump starter have a bypass procedure and allow a 12v selectable jump? I don't think my hybrid XLT LUX would last three weeks. In my garage at 45-48°F my voltage will drop 0.2-0.3v overnight. Lowest I have noticed before I put truck in ready state was 11.6v significantly less than the 12.8 apparent fully charged. I am taking readings at the dash power point with all possible accessories off. The reading if you get close to truck will be reduced somewhat since at least computer is running and as such you will be taking an open circuit reading.

 

[sockeye]

Is the wifi and auto-updates on? I've turned both those off and have no problems with the battery since.

I've tried it both ways. Having all the connectivity stuff disabled seems to help....it delays the "deep sleep", but eventually, it still sleeps. The cold exacerbates the problem, I think. And no way should the 12 volt battery ever drop to 6 volts.

 

[Maverick2023]

Is the wifi and auto-updates on? I've turned both those off and have no problems with the battery since.

same here. Got a couple of Deep sleep messages due to not driving the truck for a few days. Turned off auto update, wifi and disabling Ford Pass and didn't happen again ever since. I'm still keeping a battery jump starter in the truck just in case.

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