Option for a second hybrid battery

[Eagle11]

I recently read that you cannot lease the Ecoboost Maverick. Is this true, or false???

please post the article

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[MakinDoForNow]

I recently read that you cannot lease the Ecoboost Maverick. Is this true, or false???

Am just guessing but would probably have something to do with not being able to build and deliver Ecoboost prior to the cutoff date on an agreement. And or maybe they are planning on implementing leases on 2023's before Ford could deliver 2022 model. Is 2022 Ecoboost order book still open?

 

[DryHeat]

The Motor does charge the battery running at the most economic rpm with any excess torque being used to take the load off the electric drive motor (more overall efficiency than running ice at lower rpm just to charge battery). It is a balancing act. I speculate that the on/off cycling of the ice would be between different set points probably keeping the on occuring at the same voltage level guessing (30%?) and ice off at say (40%?) Or less whatever it takes to keep the thermostat on the starter/generator's stator happy (do not want to melt the windings). Then the ice could shut down unless the state of the battery still required charging in which case the load on the starter/generator could just be reduced. With all the cooling possibilities in this thing, I do not envision this actually happening. I do not know but expect the ice to cycle on/off occasionally just to keep some thermostats happy and to be ready to efficiently fire up. Gotta be ready to jump if some dude floors it. Bottom line is the second battery will give me more battery miles from plug in charge before I have to burn gas.

Is this a description of the typical operation of the Maverick hybrid or some other system?

I ask because it doesn't seem much like any other description of the Maverick's operating modes that I have seen before.

 

[Big_T]

The

Motor does charge the battery running at the most economic rpm with any excess torque being used to take the load off the electric drive motor (more overall efficiency than running ice at lower rpm just to charge battery). It is a balancing act. I speculate that the on/off cycling of the ice would be between different set points probably keeping the on occuring at the same voltage level guessing (30%?) and ice off at say (40%?) Or less whatever it takes to keep the thermostat on the starter/generator's stator happy (do not want to melt the windings). Then the ice could shut down unless the state of the battery still required charging in which case the load on the starter/generator could just be reduced. With all the cooling possibilities in this thing, I do not envision this actually happening. I do not know but expect the ice to cycle on/off occasionally just to keep some thermostats happy and to be ready to efficiently fire up. Gotta be ready to jump if some dude floors it. Bottom line is the second battery will give me more battery miles from plug in charge before I have to burn gas.

This sounds more like a description of the current Honda Insight hybrid, not the hybrid system used by Ford or Toyota.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Is this a description of the typical operation of the Maverick hybrid or some other system?

I ask because it doesn't seem much like any other description of the Maverick's operating modes that I have seen before.

It is what I believed John at Weber state was talking about in utubes of Toyota - Ford transsxle both prior to and after their parting of ways. I was under impression general design was used by Ford and improved subsequent to the split. I do believe that I read/saw where this design was used in broncos and that recently sizes of the drive & starter/generator motors were changed along with method of windings and magnet sizes or number as made by Ford. I Also saw John mention which gears had teeth changed to arrive at final ratios one which was was that of the FWD hybrid. I took these as verification that we were still talking about Ford's version of the transsxle. All this occured earlier and Ford could have changed things but I have not found anything specific to maverick other than references to items that would support the cooling loops etc of this transsxle. Forgive me if I strayed too in my assumptions. I will get motivated to review things. Right now I am wanting to get started flex bedding. Thinking about sliding in camper = a little tough for sleeping room.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

This sounds more like a description of the current Honda Insight hybrid, not the hybrid system used by Ford or Toyota.

John at Weber state in one of his videos referred to Honda, I believe had gone to this general layout of transaxle. So others will make what changes they need due to patents but general functions will remain. Sorry but my understanding of what I read not specifically maverick but influenced by what info to maverick I found.

 

[DryHeat]

It is what I believed John at Weber state was talking about in utubes of Toyota - Ford transsxle both prior to and after their parting of ways. I was under impression general design was used by Ford and improved subsequent to the split. I do believe that I read/saw where this design was used in broncos and that recently sizes of the drive & starter/generator motors were changed along with method of windings and magnet sizes or number as made by Ford. I Also saw John mention which gears had teeth changed to arrive at final ratios one which was was that of the FWD hybrid. I took these as verification that we were still talking about Ford's version of the transsxle. All this occured earlier and Ford could have changed things but I have not found anything specific to maverick other than references to items that would support the cooling loops etc of this transsxle. Forgive me if I strayed too in my assumptions. I will get motivated to review things. Right now I am wanting to get started flex bedding. Thinking about sliding in camper = a little tough for sleeping room.

Weber has a video on the Toyota RAV4 which is very similar to the Maverick design.
Understanding the Toyota RAV4 Hybrid - YouTube

He makes it pretty clear that the ICE is the main driver in constant speed cruising (like on the highway) and that the sort of "serial hybrid" type of mode (where the ICE primarily charges the battery while the battery-powered electric motor primarily drives the wheels) is not the usual continuous mode of operation.

The ICE (and regen braking) do recharge the battery of course. And sometimes both the ICE and the electric motor provide motive power at the same time, while sometimes the ICE powers the wheels and recharges the battery at the same time. It seems almost any combination is possible.

Overall, the system seems very sophisticated in the way it draws driving power and recharge power from different sources under different load conditions to maximize the energy obtained from the fuel while maintaining acceptable performance. I guess that's why we need all those chips.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Weber has a video on the Toyota RAV4 which is very similar to the Maverick design.
Understanding the Toyota RAV4 Hybrid - YouTube

He makes it pretty clear that the ICE is the main driver in constant speed cruising (like on the highway) and that the sort of "serial hybrid" type of mode (where the ICE primarily charges the battery while the battery-powered electric motor primarily drives the wheels) is not the usual continuous mode of operation.

The ICE (and regen braking) do recharge the battery of course. And sometimes both the ICE and the electric motor provide motive power at the same time, while sometimes the ICE powers the wheels and recharges the battery at the same time. It seems almost any combination is possible.

Overall, the system seems very sophisticated in the way it draws driving power and recharge power from different sources under different load conditions to maximize the energy obtained from the fuel while maintaining acceptable performance. I guess that's why we need all those chips.

I apologize for any confusion I have caused as I think much faster than I can type also usually about not necessarily more than one thing at a time but several interleaved with each other during a certain time span. Therefore I may leave out words and sometimes whole sentences. Since I am doing this on my phone I am not editing prior to hitting send. In any event we are talking about the same thing. I got out of several videos (not that necessarily was exactly stated but as I understand) that John (Kelley?) said in summation.. 1. Toyota and Ford both jointly developed modifications to a transsxle suggested by, manufactured, and or patented by (??? Invertec or ???) For which, I infer were patented by Ford. 2. At some point Toyota wanted to do something that they didn't want Ford to be a part of or Ford didn't want to be a part of so Toyota and Ford split and Toyota negotiated the rights to at least some of the jointly developed patents. 3. Ford continued developing the transaxel with some versions used in other vehicles, maverick and possibility bronco sport I suspect use the current model with the smaller versions of the drive and starter/generator motors. And getting their own parents, of course.
Then in relation primary drive motor, I see that no one can actually function as primary but only as the preferred source of torque dependent upon other needs. Hard to put in primary order but since (if I remember correctly) the 12 volt battery is only 25 amp hours and it is (I think I read) is trickle charged by HV battery so it can start the ice when needed. I do believe (true or not) that the HV battery if in fact it does trickle charge the 12 volt will cease doing so at some low charge before completely discharging.
Second I would place the ice in line past the 12volt being low in that it is needed to warm things and to possibly charge HV battery if it is below minimum preferred charge level. I'm sorry but I want to quit now and restart my movie. More to follow ...

 

[James L. Harrison]

Am just guessing but would probably have something to do with not being able to build and deliver Ecoboost prior to the cutoff date on an agreement. And or maybe they are planning on implementing leases on 2023's before Ford could deliver 2022 model. Is 2022 Ecoboost order book still open?

I just found these replies. As of today [11/26/21] Ecoboost orders are still open AFAIK...

 

[notliketopgun]

Something I would really be interested in is if Plugout Power supported the Maverick. They sell an inverter system you hook up to a Prius, or other hybrid car, and it allows you to use it as either a 3 or 5 kilowatt generator. That would be huge if you need to operate tools, or power your home or other things in an event like a hurricane, flood, or large scale power outage. It's similar to the system in the F150's pro power onboard.

 

[mamboman777]

Yup, although that's still not all that much battery. The current is a meager 1.1KWH, if you double it that's 2.2KWH so still nothing compared to the 14.4KWH battery in the plugin Escape, which would be adding 12 more of that size battery pack around the vehicle, lol! And even that comparatively huge 14.4KWH battery only gives the Escape Plugin a 30mile electric range, so imagine how useless an EV range a 2.2KWH battery would provide. Not really worth plugging in.

So it may not be a plugin at all, it may just be for a slightly higher performance regular hybrid AWD version. The current 190hp power figure doesn't make sense considering how much horsepower the electric motor is rated for, unless of course the power the electric motor can generate is limited by the current the tiny hybrid battery can provide.

Doubling the tiny battery wouldn't give you any plugin range really to be worthwhile, but it could allow higher currents so that it might be a 225hp AWD hybrid instead. I'd actually prefer that, because if you put heavy batteries on a Maverick chassis, you're decreasing its payload, all else equal. I rather it remain light and just have more power and on-demand AWD.

Are we certain that the space inside inside the current battery is completely used?

 

[mamboman777]

I have another theory... The second battery pack is for the AWD Hybrid. It will power the rear axel electric only motor.

 

[Darnon]

Are we certain that the space inside inside the current battery is completely used?

Yes, it's quite fully packaged.

 

[mamboman777]

Yes, it's quite fully packaged.

Wait a minute!!!! How'd you get that?!?

Thanks for letting us know!

 

[BILLNOROVILLE]

I noticed it says "DUMMY ARRAY" on side showing, so does that mean it takes up room but does not function so maybe a non-dummy array can be installed for double the power. Or is it a dummy array for safety demonstration purposes since the cover is off. My guess is the latter.

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