Octane vs MPG, 87 vs 93, anyone compared?

[bgn]

The only topic more contentious on a vehicle forum than fuel and octane: oil.

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[LM42]

I didn't think so! And most readers won't misinterpret things but somehow you did.

What percentage of a gallon, or put another way, how many ounces of a gallon do you think are "fuel additives"?

You said the local guy is getting his gas from the same rack as Chevron. That statement has nothing to do with additives or ounces or any other god damn thing LOL. The ONLY way to interpret this is that you are saying the local guy is selling the same gas as Chevron. I was an English major, and communicate for a living. Yet, I would have thought the same thing had I read this in the 3rd grade.

 

[LM42]

The only topic more contentious on a vehicle forum than fuel and octane: oil.

All topics on a forum are contentious. There is a book that the moderators should post for sale. It is called The Death of Expertise. And is something most people should read.

 

[GPSMan]

Code of Federal Regulations
Title 40
Chapter 1
Subchapter U
Part 1090

"GASOLINE ADDITIVE STANDARDS"

Treatment rate.
"Except for oxygenates, the gasoline additives used must be at a maximum treatment rate less than or equal to a combined total of 1.00 volume percent"

Requirements:
"Gasoline may not be sold or transferred to a party who sells or transfers gasoline to the ultimate consumer unless such gasoline contains detergent additives which have been certified. These detergency requirements apply to all gasoline whether intended for on-highway or non-road use, including conventional, oxygenated, reformulated, and leaded gasolines, as well as mixtures of gasoline and alcohol fuels."

"Gasoline detergent additive must meet minimum concentration standards. The manufacturer of any detergent additive wishing to be certified as compliant must submit data showing concentrations in parts per thousand to four decimal places."

I can't find a minimum VOLUME standard for detergent additives because as you might expect, some ingredients clean better than others. So you'd naturally need a lower volume of one compared to another.

But clearly, clearly ALL gasoline sold must contain "minimums" for detergent additives (and it sounds like these are added at the factory before distributed to the Mom & Pop retailers) but there is clearly an upper limit of maximum 1% by volume.

More detergent = less energy = lower MPG. So you want the right amount. Not just assume "more is better".

"Most" things you add to gasoline are going to lower MPG.

HTH,

 

[GPSMan]

You said the local guy is getting his gas from the same rack as Chevron. That statement has nothing to do with additives or ounces or any other god damn thing LOL. The ONLY way to interpret this is that you are saying the local guy is selling the same gas as Chevron. I was an English major, and communicate for a living. Yet, I would have thought the same thing had I read this in the 3rd grade.

Nope. Sorry.

There's "splash" blending.
If so authorized, the Chevron driver can add a pre measured amount of "Techroline 5007 dilithium crystals" or whatever else is a Federally certified fuel additive. The other driver may not.

This can change the fuel a fraction of one percent, if desired.

 

[LM42]

Nope. Sorry.

There's "splash" blending.
If so authorized, the Chevron driver can add a pre measured amount of "Techroline 5007 dilithium crystals" or whatever else is a Federally certified fuel additive. The other driver may not.

This can change the fuel a fraction of one percent, if desired.

You are really bad at forum's. This is not what you said. If this is what you meant, you should have said that. Instead, you said that the local guy gets the same gas as Chevron. No caveats. So again. My interpretation of what you actually said was correct. I am done bastardizing this thread. Some of you are absolutely exhausting.

 

[Ranch]

Code of Federal Regulations
Title 40
Chapter 1
Subchapter U
Part 1090

"GASOLINE ADDITIVE STANDARDS"

Treatment rate.
"Except for oxygenates, the gasoline additives used must be at a maximum treatment rate less than or equal to a combined total of 1.00 volume percent"

Requirements:
"Gasoline may not be sold or transferred to a party who sells or transfers gasoline to the ultimate consumer unless such gasoline contains detergent additives which have been certified. These detergency requirements apply to all gasoline whether intended for on-highway or non-road use, including conventional, oxygenated, reformulated, and leaded gasolines, as well as mixtures of gasoline and alcohol fuels."

"Gasoline detergent additive must meet minimum concentration standards. The manufacturer of any detergent additive wishing to be certified as compliant must submit data showing concentrations in parts per thousand to four decimal places."

I can't find a minimum VOLUME standard for detergent additives because as you might expect, some ingredients clean better than others. So you'd naturally need a lower volume of one compared to another.

But clearly, clearly ALL gasoline sold must contain "minimums" for detergent additives (and it sounds like these are added at the factory before distributed to the Mom & Pop retailers) but there is clearly an upper limit of maximum 1% by volume.

More detergent = less energy = lower MPG. So you want the right amount. Not just assume "more is better".

"Most" things you add to gasoline are going to lower MPG.

HTH,

If you read the link I posted above you will see that the EPA minimum for gasoline detergents doesn't work well and that's why auto manufacturers like Ford sponsored the Top Tier gas specification. I haven't read about any significant reduction in MPG from Top Tier gas.

All gasoline grades must be treated with an approved TOP TIER™ Detergent Gasoline additive at the correct concentration

https://toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/

 

[NJBob]

Well, MOST gas stations make this claim.
But I agree with the road warriors out there actually doing the driving. Octane alone is not a MPG booster.

The data gets muddied by the fact once in a while, in some markets, "Premium" fuel is ethanol free and "regular" is 10% ethanol.

It is the change in ethanol, not the change in octane that boosts MPG.

What markets have premium ethylene free? Ethylene is used to boost octane. But does not have the energy as gas. Just curious where that is?

 

[GPSMan]

You are really bad at forum's. This is not what you said. If this is what you meant, you should have said that. Instead, you said that the local guy gets the same gas as Chevron. No caveats. So again. My interpretation of what you actually said was correct. I am done bastardizing this thread. Some of you are absolutely exhausting.

I guess your extensive experience gave you superpowers to read between the lines. But, you invented content not there.

I said both trucks pick up fuel from the same spot. You agreed this is true so I don't know what you are debating.

I then went on to show, with extensive documentation, that by federal law all gasolines sold are required to be 99% the same. This is a good thing. It means consistency for the customer. No matter where they travel, or who they buy from, they get fuel that is at least 99% identical to the previous tank, from a detergents value.

I then insinuated (without explicitly stating) that it's not worth $15 extra per tank for gas that has less than 1% additive that Chevron added. While I don't know the secret recipe I know it is less than 1% different than the guy up the street.

Since all fuel off the rack has to have some detergent, and detergents combined have to be less than 1%, we KNOW Chevron added less than 1%!!
Pretend the federal minimum is 0.2% then at most Chevron can add is 0.8%.

Maybe they do. Maybe they advertise "contains 5x the detergents of generic" and can say that honestly.

But like the other guy said, it's one cent of detergents per gallon. So why pay $1 more per gallon in a new, clean, perfectly running engine.

I know you want to say "to keep it clean". And it probably will.

It will do no harm so knock yourself out.
A lot of people only clean after something gets dirty.

Have a great night.

 

[Guv]

This thread is like Gus and Woodrow arguing in Lonesome Dove.

 

[greenweever]

Guys, I was just wondering if anyone logged MPGs with 87 and 93, and what the difference was. Not the pros and cons of octane or anything else related to octane, engine performance, engine longevity, or if the Earth is round or flat.

Thanks to the few of you who actually answered me.

 

[GA Hot Pepper]

I believe all engines are run on premium fuel (93) for their published numbers, this includes EPA testing. EPA tests do not fuel containing any ethanol and use premium fuel. Manufacturers use 93 octane for their testing

 

[MavDave]

"Personally" I filled up with 87 octane (because the owners manual says you can) for my first 2 tanks, and got 26mpg average and the majority of that was highway. I then switched to premium, the mpgs immediately went up to 29 with very similar driving conditions and routes. Could have also been the break in period. Where I have personally have found the biggest difference in mpgs is the quality of gasoline. I was filling up with Shell gas and with 90% +/- highway I started getting 28-29 which for my 4k is on target. Then I switched to H.E.B (a Texas grocery chain) and saw as much as 32mpgs on the highway. I could have done a little better but I kept the cruise at 77 (2 mph over the limit). I have been getting similar mileage with Sams Club (for much less $$) and Chevron. With the EB, in South Texas which by the manual the summer temperatures put our vehicles in the severe or extreme conditions, I will never run regular in mine. If I had a Hybrid, I wouldn't consider using anything but regular. This is all just my opinion and observations.

 

[desmobob]

I just topped off my tank from about 1/2 full. Gas in my town is currently $3.49 for regular unleaded 87 but $4.39 for non-ethanol 93. I splurged and gave the Maverick a holiday treat... I love that throttle response.

 

[Lone Star Proud]

Isn't that the truth. Some of my local gas stations charge $0.90 to $1.00 extra per gallon for 93 octane. I'm sure glad I don't own a vehicle that requires the higher octane. To just break even, an EB Maverick would have to gain something like 8-10 mpg at those prices.

My Hybrid Maverick replaced a BMW that sucked down super premium. I save on much better mpg and being able to use regular gas. A big win/win.

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