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Dead Hybrid Log Book

acapaldi

2.5L Hybrid
Well-known member
First Name
Andrew
Joined
Nov 21, 2022
Threads
2
Messages
57
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114
Location
Michigan
Vehicle(s)
Maverick XLT Hybrid
Engine
2.5L Hybrid
Hey, it happened to me too! Going to try to document this as much as I can, I've scoured this forum looking for similar reports, trying to find some root cause. Hopefully by posting this, it'll help someone else later.

Ford needs to find a way to resolve this, new reports of dead hybrids are being reported on this board weekly. The whole point of buying me buying a new vehicle was to get something that wouldn't fall to pieces on me. Something I could rely on. That didn't last long.


Details of the Case:

  • Ford Maverick XLT Hybrid w/Lux and Copilot. Ordered 10/22/21, entered production 9/20/22, built 9/21/22, delivered to dealer and picked up 10/18/22.
  • Production date of 9/20/22 is past clean point of 5/13/22 for TSB 22-2340 for the bad battery harness terminal.
  • Fordpass installed and active, used daily for remote start though the winter.
  • Driven 4.4 miles to work and back (8.8 total) maximum speed of ~55 mph, no highways. Mon-Thur.
  • No “Deep Sleep” messages for first ~5 months of ownership. I knew about the issue and watched for it. Silent.
  • First deep sleep message in Fordpass received April 13th, at approximately 7:30 PM, truck had been driven home from work at 5:30.
  • Truck driven up to Saginaw on April 14th, driven 107 miles over the course of the day, including some highway driving.
  • Another “Deep Sleep” message April 15th, day after the long trip. No driving occurred on this day.
  • Another “Deep Sleep” message on April 16th, at 2:11 PM. This was 5 minutes after having driven it 3.0 miles to a friend’s house, maps showing an arrival time of 2:06 PM.
  • Decided to try something, put vehicle in sport move and drove 40 miles on the highway to attempt to recharge the battery.
  • Deep sleep messages subsided on Monday and Tuesday, returned on Wednesday at ~3:00 PM, truck was had been driven back and forth to work during this time.
  • Deep sleep message on Thursday at 9:05 AM, April 20th. Sooner than the day prior. Truck was completely dead in the parking lot when I went to leave at 6:30 PM. No lights, no power locks. I kept a NOCO pack under the rear seat, used it to get home.
  • Dead again at 6:20 AM the next morning. No lights, no power locks. Used the NOCO pack to jump it again.
  • Scheduled appointment with nearby dealer to take a look at it the night prior. Left work at 11:30 AM for the appointment. No dome light, but truck started without assistance. Interesting. Time parked seems to be a factor.
  • Picked up from dealer at 3:45 PM, paperwork indicates multiple runs on their battery tester, came back fine. Draw test reported .016 amps. BMS reset.
  • Went to go get paperwork from glove box at 2:18 PM. Literally while writing this… Dead again. No lights, no power locks. Looks like a Deep Sleep message was sent at 12:03 PM, didn't make it 24 hours. Damn it.
Updates:
  • Walked to Lowe's, bought a multi-meter. The battery, after being tested and charged yesterday reads 4.3 volts across posts. Reads the same across jumping terminals under the hood.
  • Disconnected battery, reads 5.5 volts across posts now. Thought that was strange, reconnected it and tried again, 4.5 volts. Interesting. Leaving it disconnected for now, will reconnect and jump Monday morning to get to work.
  • From what I can find online, no way a car battery should ever dip that low, and once a battery does there's no saving it. Battery is likely toast. Question now is why was it so low to begin with? Or how did it go from fully charged to discharged in 24 hours?
  • Checked battery this morning, 11 volts? Evidently had enough in it to spark when reconnected and make the door chime, before promptly dying again. Surface charge.
  • Jumped car this morning, measured voltage across the posts of the battery to be 15 volts while running. Ran on the highway for 45 minutes. Came back, disconnected the battery again, 12.8v, so evidently it is charging. Believe one of the tells of the cable issue is it wouldn't charge period. May not be the cable.
  • Charge held through the afternoon with the battery disconnected. Read 12.6v 9 hours later. Battery may not be toast. Reconnected, see if it's dead tomorrow morning again.
  • Disabled everything Ford connectivity related in settings and turned off heated seats/wheel/climate control. Try to rule those out as sources of the drain. This started right as things started to warm up, was using A/C more, not the heater.
  • Drain would show up on the draw test the dealer performed would it not? Unless it's intermittent. Not sure what would draw enough power to suck down a fully charged car battery in under 24 hours, but not show up on a drain test.
  • Tracking voltage since the drive yesterday. Started at 12.8 volts, down to 12.6v by time I hooked it back in 9 hours later. Down to 12.1v by morning, up to 12.3v after commute. 11.6v @ 9 AM. 11.2v @ 12 PM. ~7 volts by 1:30 PM, jumping up and down. Strange. Firing something repeatedly? No clicking.
  • Truck is completely dead at this voltage, no lights, no power locks. Whatever it is, it’s getting worse. Last week I made it at a few days after a long highway trip. This week, didn’t make it 24 hours since my battery was reconnected. Jump pack FTW.
  • Turned off Fordpass Connectivity after last highway trip. Good idea pulling Fuse 11 to cut power to the TCM, but I’ll save that for someone who knows what they’re doing.
  • Unplugged all peripherals including dashcam at the start of this. No change in status. Still died today.
  • Hung around car after closing the door after each voltage check to make sure the dome lights turned off. Dome light turns off, as do headlights, bed light and rear cab light. Doesn't appear lighting related.
  • Also, really cold today. Kept climate control off, truck did not care.
  • Drain did not appear to manifest until after being driven. Maybe why it didn't show up on the parasitic draw test? The act of disconnecting the battery made whatever was doing it stop. Saw a 0.5v drop in voltage in a 9 hour period, with battery connected, compared to a ~5v drop after driving to work and leaving it attached in the same length of time.
  • Schrodinger's battery drain. The act of observing the drain changes the outcome. Disconnecting the battery to perform the parasitic draw test shuts off whatever is draining it, until the vehicle is run again. Not sure if an in-line ammeter exists, could be useful here.
  • Will add that there is no 4G hotspot in this car, mine was built after they stopped including them.
  • Going to the dealer tomorrow, hope to get more answers. Will need to jump to get to work tomorrow. Yay.
  • Almost didn't make it to the dealer appointment, battery drained to the point where my little jump pack wouldn't do anything. Got rescued by a coworker. Dropped off yesterday, have an Edge loaner vehicle.
  • Dealer reporting that there is no drain, replacing battery under warranty. Battery passed testing, but said it took a really long time to recharge. Probably because it was very, very dead. Really hoping it's just the battery. Not getting my hopes up.
  • In a "a chicken or the egg" scenario right now. Did the battery get damaged by being overdrawn and left in a discharged state? Or was it faulty from the start and just not holding a charge? Would have expected to see voltage drop more when disconnected were that the case. Guessing I'll know pretty quick.
  • Truck is back, paperwork indicates battery failed the dealer's tester, after passing twice before. Interesting. Had an additional 25 miles on the OD, so it evidently has been driven around. Sat at the dealer most of the day, started when the tech got it.
  • Sits in garage. Will poke with a stick. It has sat for 6 hours at this point. At its height I'd be dead by now. Or at the very minimum sub-10 volts. Kicking myself for not checking starting voltage.
  • 12.1v, lights light, locks lock. Will run it around some and check it tomorrow. Really want this to be all it was. Trying not to get my hopes up.
  • Remote started just fine for the drive yesterday, put some highway miles on it, some juice in the battery. Dome light came on too, so evidently it wasn't low low.
  • Fired up fine this morning. Not dead yet. 12.8v after work today, doesn't appear to be actively draining it. Far cry from the ~7v I was sitting at after work last week.
  • Tried re-adding the truck via Fordpass, wouldn't take. Reset all Fordpass related settings in the infotainment system. Stopped myself, going to leave it off for now, I used the fob most of the time anyway. Wifi disabled, automatic updates disabled, everything Fordpass disabled. If I die again, I can rule all that out. But looking promising.
  • 12.1v after having sat for 6 hours. Dome light came on. Seems to match notes from a few days back. At a minimum it's not getting worse.
  • Had to say it. Dome light stopped coming on this morning, battery at 11.6v after work today. Slowly but surely going to shit again.
  • Question now, is whether to book another appointment with the dealer before or after it completely dies again. Kind of wasteful to just let it toast another battery, but it will help me prove my point.
  • Seeing Senior Master Ford Guy's post about a fuse causing low batteries. Fuse cracks and the battery doesn't get all the power it should. Sounds promising. Would cause a low battery and not be detectable via drain test.
  • Also, appeared out of nowhere after a long road trip, put 600 miles on the truck prior to this mess. Maybe it cracked the fuse on the trip? 75% was country roads. Will have them check for this. Worth a shot.
  • Battery voltage appears to rise after each trip, so power is going into the battery, just not staying. Unless it's getting just enough to cause a voltage bump, but not enough to really charge it. Plausible?
  • First trip to the dealer the truck came home with what I believe to be a fully charged/tested battery. It sat in the garage for 24 hours, never moved it. Dead next day. Battery damaged at this point by heavy discharge? Made it just not hold a charge anymore? Or something drew it down? Why didn't it draw down the replacement though? Well, as quickly...
  • Been a few weeks, nothing. Dome light still dome lights. Not dead yet. Not 100% trusting it yet.
  • Have had weekly long highway trips with it though. First was 10+ Hours to Kansas, then 1.5 hours to Saginaw. Hard to know it It's dying when I keep recharging it.
  • Debating turning Fordpass back on to see if it kills it, all connectivity everything is turned off.
  • If it is a cracked fuse, maybe it's back making contact after the temps warmed up? Dunno.
  • Had the dealer check the fuse, fuse is fine. FORScan is reporting no DTCs, so that would check out. Should have something stored if it's breaking contact

Important Update #1 - They're programmed wrong from the factory. At least mine is. AGM battery type selected with an FLA battery installed.

  • Got a FORScan extended license and adapter. Something is making it eat 12V batteries. And if I buy a new one, given a few weeks, months it will eventually kill that too.
  • Loaded information from the truck, BdyCM has an AGM battery chemistry selected. The BXT99RT4A installed in it is FLA.
  • Battery type is also showing "Incorrect value or not configured" in FORScan. This might be a FORScan issue. Ford seems to stick with the same battery codes across their lineup, I dug through F150, Escape and Explorer forums looking for a complete list. 07 was selected, which pertains to a 43AH T4 battery according to a list from the Explorer forums.
  • Interestingly 07 pertains to an FLA battery according to the list, but charge type is set to AGM.
  • Have to wonder which takes priority. Is it charging the FLA like an AGM and is that why they're getting killed? AGM has a higher charge rate and lower internal reistance vs FLA. Is the battery code just for the AH and CCA?
  • Battery max charge level is also set to 80%. So our tiny 43AH battery is more like a 34AH battery.
  • Going to try buffing targeted charge level to 90% and switching to an FLA chemistry. Keep the battery juiced up longer, give it the right chemistry. See what it does.

  • Interesting. 13.66 volts across battery posts when the truck is running with these settings. Old notes had this at 15V before. Guessing that's from AGM vs FLA. Thought AGM was supposed to be able to be charged faster. I'll need to try toggling between the two and checking before/after.
  • 12.1V immediately after shutting the truck off, ~11.6V 5 hours later. Even before, when I'd shut the truck off the battery would be at 12.8V. Like it's not able to get anywhere near the target charge level.
  • Dunno... about anything. So with AGM selected, it has 15V across posts. With FLA selected, it has 13.66V across posts. Don't know what is harmful for it or not harmful for it. Either it gets hit with high voltage in quick bursts which would keep the resting charge level up. Or gets hit with lower voltage bursts that can't keep the battery charged to its target level.
  • I think part of the problem is I don't drive enough every day. So it's only being charged by the truck maybe ~20 minutes/day. And it either gets hit with a high voltage burst in that time to try to bring it up (probably not good for it) or it stays discharged (also not good for it).
  • Like it almost needs an AGM. If those do indeed charge faster, it'd be easier to keep the battery in the desired voltage range, even with short trips.
  • Got a decision to make and it's approaching quick. Now might be the time to say screw it and go AGM. Go back to default settings, load up a LN1AGM or H4-XEV and start the timer.

  • For as worrying as the voltage is, it never actually went back to sleep after setting it to FLA and a 90% charge target. It stayed pretty steady at 11.9V.
  • FORScan reported 45% charged 24 hours after a 1.5 hr drive yesterday. Fully charged the battery, reset BMS, equipped bluetooth ODBII port reader and installed FORScan Lite. Should let me keep tabs on battery charge while driving.
  • 99% at 10 PM, 70% at 6 am, battery did not gain anything during the drive in. 59% at 5 pm, gained 1% on the drive home. Will see if that trend repeats, also need to monitor charge amperage, wasn't paying attention to that. Hearing some success bumping the targeted charge level higher.

  • It just lives at 55% right now. Reported charge rate in FORScan never exceeds 1 amp while driving, it gains maybe 1% on the way to and from work. Voltage looks good at 15V, dips to ~12.2V immediately after parking.
  • I drove around for ~2 hours last night, got it up to 57%. Noticed my charge rate dropped to zero when pulling into the garage today. It's not just that it's charging slow, it's like it isn't even trying. Even with a target of 90%, it wants to stay half charged.
  • Have to experiment with different battery settings. Maybe go back to stock settings, establish a baseline. Right now, no deep sleep and a steady, if low-ish SOC. Battery drops maybe 1-2% while parked for 12 hours. So it's not a drain thing, backs up the drain test.
  • 13A draw immediately after parking, with lights and radio still on. Dunno if that's excessive, can't overcome the draw? Can only muster a slight positive amperage?
  • 15V at the BCM, haven't re-checked, but across the battery on these settings I had 13.6V across the posts. High resistance would drop the current. Is it resistance in the battery cable limiting the charge current to the battery?
  • No frame of reference for any of this stuff, what is normal/abnormal. I have some data now, but have no idea how to interpret it.
  • Plan for now is to charge to 100% on the weekends, reset the BMS, try different settings for SOC, Battery Chemistry, Battery type. Flavor of the week. See what works best for maintaining 12V SOC. Guess and check.
Ford Maverick Dead Hybrid Log Book Screenshot_20231128_045149_FORScan Lit
Ford Maverick Dead Hybrid Log Book Screenshot_20231128_045707_FORScan Lit

  • Current spiked to 6.00 A when driving around today, battery started the run at 45% after being parked for ~20 hours. So it can get over 1 amp, it's just choosing not to. And the battery did gain charge faster when FORScan reported a higher charge amperage.
  • Unfortunately, it climbed 3% and then just kinda stopped charging it. Ran around for another half hour or so and amperage bounced between 0-1A, maintaining a battery SOC of 47%
  • So, it can charge the battery but it chooses not to. Something is shutting charging off well before reaching the target charge level. Leaving the battery perpetually in a low SOC and ruining the 12V batteries over time.
  • What shuts off battery charging? But still allows the battery to trickle charge? It's not just at 0, like the blown fuse thing. How does BMS decide to not charge the 12V battery when it's below target? Is it stupid?
  • Will add HVB charge level to FORScan, maybe it doesn't have anything to pull from? Hard to believe it would be thermals, it's cold in Michigan right now.
  • Drive modes and disabling heaters did not affect charge rate any.
  • Going back to stock settings, resetting BMS, need to establish a baseline setup. But from what I can see, changes did jack shit. It doesn't care what the target SOC is.
  • Tempted to try disconnecting the BMS sensor that's supposedly on the battery cable at the 12V. Rule out BMS cutting off charging. Another thing to try for another day.
  • Need to take the truck to a dealership with a stack of data. Put it in front of someone who knows how BMS works.

  • Reverted to AGM battery type and 80% target SOC. Stock settings. Fully recharged battery and reset BMS, this time via FORScan. Interestingly enough BMS recognized the battery as being 80% charged immediately after the reset, despite a voltage of 13.7 and the truck being off. Little bit worried about that, this was different from the other BMS resets. But if it targets 80% (and actually tries to get there) , it should mean it will try to keep the battery fully charged.
  • Maybe that's the missing piece? I keep resetting BMS via the headlight flashing method. Maybe it doesn't work? Doesn't try to charge the battery because it doesn't re-learn its SOC?

  • Yeah that ain't it chief. Pretty much mirrored last Monday's run. Charged at 1-2 amps, gained 1%, then lost it all parked in the work parking lot and then some.
  • Something that is highly interesting though, I can confirm switching from FLA to AGM there is a difference. 15.1V across the battery when running with AGM selected, 13.6 with FLA selected. I checked FORScan while doing this, it was charging at 1 amp while I messed with it.
  • So, I have a greater voltage difference across the posts of the battery with AGM type set, but I still am at 1-2 amps, dropping to 0 amps and maintaining maybe 10 minutes into a drive.
  • What happens if you keep a standard lead acid battery with 15V across its posts for an extended period of time? How does a battery charger know when to stop charging?

  • Mirroring last week's run with the stock settings. Maybe slightly more apt to have 2 amps charging instead of 1. The fact that I drop minimum 30% the first day after charging, before seeing a slow drain over the course of the week doesn't bode well for the battery. Definitely working against me.
  • V/R=I. I is low, V is plenty healthy. So something is restricting charge amperage. Battery we already know is toast. Could the internal resistance of the battery be restricting the charge current? Could try to disconnect the battery and run a desulphate cycle on it. See if charge current goes up. Or just replace the damn thing already. Bite the bullet.


Important Update #2 - AGM Battery Installed.

  • Upgraded to an H4-XEV Diehard AGM battery. 15% more capacity, AGM construction. Yes I'm stupid, yes I hate money. Perfect fit as anticipated. It's a little tight in there but it's all buttoned up and ready to go. Vent tube hooks up fine, pretty plug and play for the most part.
  • Diehard won out over ACDelco because if I kill it again within the next 3 years, I can get a new one. Little bit of insurance.
  • Keeping the stock Bdycm settings for everything. I fiddled with trying to find a battery type in FORScan that was AGM and had the right capacity, couldn't do it. No 50AH w/AGM in there. And the live data doesn't match the spreadsheets I looked at. There is a 52AH option in there, but live data reports a 70AH battery.
  • From the Escape forum video I found on installing the AGM battery in an Escape hybrid, they never say anything about FORScan and it sounds like it works for people. And my stock setting did call it out as an AGM battery. Will keep an eye on it with the OBDII reader, make sure it's keeping it charged.
  • Might ask a dealer if they can tweak it for me at my next oil change. See if they know anything, some Escape peope have had that done.
  • Will do some running around tomorrow with it once the truck learns its SOC.

Ford Maverick Dead Hybrid Log Book 20231216_112445

  • Initial findings are not all that promising. Still only outputting 1-2A from they key turn, just has no desire to actually charge the damn battery. That was with a full charge on the AGM prior to install, followed by a BMS reset, followed by leaving it alone for 8 hours to learn its SOC. Dunno.
  • So, battery was probably fine and it was a waste of time and money. There's no magic bullet. (Future me: Ye of little faith...magic bullet go pew pew pew.)
  • Maybe not a complete waste though, I did learn something. When your battery doesn't immediately fall below the 80% target, BMS actually does something. It's "helping". Charge mode flips between different Slow and Fast regen modes, "Conventional Charging", and something called "Battery Refresh"
  • I feel like based on the description of "Conventional Charging", and it triggering when below target SOC, the truck should be outputting double-digit amps to try to charge the battery up to target. Like a conventional alternator would, before shutting off charging at target and maintaining it with the different regen modes.
  • Truck absolutely does not do this, I just trickle charge and that's it. Despite being well below the target SOC. I've dropped to the low 70's from a full charge in two days on a new battery. WTH....
  • Sometimes it decides it wants to charge things, but that's kind of an event when it happens. That one plot I posted of hitting 9.00A before trailing off is the exception, not the rule.
  • So either it's going into "Try to charge the battery mode" and whatever is supposed to open up or trigger to allow more amps to get to the battery isn't happening. Or, it is trying to put out the extra amps, and it just isn't getting there. DC/DC converter, or battery wiring harness is my guess. Charging system is junk.
  • Or maybe it'll surprise me, maybe it's too soon to say. Maybe I'll charge at 15A on the way to work tomorrow and it'll be fine. Course not.
  • At least I can tell the dealer it isn't the GDMF battery when it goes back next. Maybe I can make them start looking elsewhere. Fuse. Cable. DC/DC Converter. Body Control Module.
  • đź§‚đź§‚đź§‚đź§‚

  • SOC continues to drop, down to 68%. It's like I'm not even driving it. Seen something about a Bdycm reprogramming from Ford for another recall. Might have some impact, the BMS stuff is in the Bdycm. Need to book that appointment after crunch time at work. Probably a good time to bring these findings to a different dealer. See if I can find someone who gives a damn.

  • Random thought: Donning my tin foil hat here for a minute, given that a new DC/DC converter is $1600, not including labor, is this maybe a Pinto situation? Ford has remained largely silent on this issue. Their proposed solutions being blaming their own mobile app, a $50 fuse and an eyelet. If the problem really is something major with these hybrids, and it's an economy vehicle with very aggressive pricing, wouldn't they act like there's nothing wrong, because a few irritated customers outweighs the costs of fixing the issue? Ford may already know what the problem is, it just may not be in their best interest to solve it. And if it is something major, I can't solve it either. That's a depressing thought.

  • 69%...Nice.
  • No but this is big, the truck drained down to 66%, and recovered charge over the course of multiple drives. Charging isn't shutting off when driving, it's a solid 2-3A.
  • It wants to get it above 68%. Dropping below that my charge amps ramp up. It's not like before where it just wouldn't try to recover, it gets back to where it was and keeps going. For the first time while logging this, I have a net+ on my SOC over the course of a week.
  • Idle drain is way down too, even overnight I've stopped losing 3-4%. Maybe 0-1% now.
  • Something to note is I have done roughly twice the driving/day I typically do. Still though, this keeps up I might call it a win.
  • So what changed? New battery. Driving habits, sure. Maybe BMS shuts off charging if it's pushing amps and not seeing the battery charge % go up? Like the thermal runaway protection on a 3D printer. Computer doesn't see the temp go up while it's pushing amps to the heat bed, it shuts off the heater. Could be a protective measure to avoid overcharging the battery?
  • Truck doesn't seem to charge when remotely started. Found this on accident, connected to OBDII adapter before key turn, but after a remote start. 0-1 amps going to it. Seems like a missed opportunity.
  • Debating bumping the target SOC now. It wants to stay at 68%. Add +12% so it tries to keep it at 80%? Get my amps bumped up sooner? Dunno if it works that way.

  • Buffed target SOC to 92%. In theory, if I was peaking at 68% before, adding 12% should get me to 80% right?
  • Lol no. Nothing makes sense. I did get to 75% charge, at which point charging shuts off. Screw it, close enough. 75% charged is not dead. Hopefully leaving the battery there will keep this one from getting ruined.
  • Something very interesting, I noted before I could run for ~15 minutes before charging would shut off, bouncing between 0-1A. Twice now, I've charged for a full hour before it quit on me. First drive I went from 68% to 75%, second drive 63% to 76%. 13% charge gained in a 1.5 hour trip. Started at 9A and slowly ramped down from there before getting to 0-1A around an hour in. I'll take it, the thing is actually charging now.
  • Question remains, will it stay charged over the course of a week? With no holiday trips, no reloading printers, just a boring week where nothing happens? We'll see.
  • Question #2, It still likes 68% as its floor. Why? Why did it decide to stay there? Why did charging shut off 17% below target? What makes it want to stop charging? You'd think that as long as its below target, it should want to get to that target. But no.
  • Will run on this setup until spring. Keep an eye on it. See if it keeps it charged. Or at least 68% charged. The AGM seems effective right now at masking the weak charging system. See if this holds true as the battery ages.

  • Quick update, BMS is so...so.. stupid. Battery dipped from 74% down to 63%. Last time it was that low the truck charged it back up to 76%. Now it doesn't care. 1-2A to the battery. Barely trickle charging. Stupid.
  • Truck does not charge the battery until you turn the key in the ignition. 0-1A going into it when remote started. Advice from dealers telling you to remote start and leave it running to charge is worthless. Surprise surprise.
  • Turning the truck on and off without remote starting it first leads to a quick burst of 6A charging for a few seconds, before it quickly peters out. Just will not stay there.
  • Slow crawl back, will need to rewire my charger to use a body ground. Might help the system with charging/learning SOC. Control what I can control.

  • Down to 61% today. Did some running. Bunch of short 20 minute trips, juiced the battery up to 68%. Charge, stop charging. Charge, stop charging. Charge, stop charging.
  • Tried something different. Hooked the battery charger up to it, one clamp behind the BMS sensor on the battery, one to the positive post. Unlike my hardwire kit which is on both posts of the battery. Still need to move it.
  • Also checked posts of the battery with a multimeter before starting. 12.4V, corresponds to ~75% full on a battery voltage chart. Truck reported 68% Fine, close enough.
  • Charging in this manner should mean that the BMS sees amps going to the battery. So as the battery approaches 100%, the BMS should recognize that and it should be reflected in the % charge.
  • Battery charger reported ~50% full. Fine, whatever. Slightly below the 75% light I guess.
  • Pulled it off the charger 7 hours later. 5AH charger, 7 hours, should have gotten me close to full. Indeed, battery charger is blinking green, clsoe to 100% full according to it.
  • Multimeter to check posts, 13V. Alright, it's full. maybe some surface charge in there.
  • Started the truck, checked it with FORScan...73%. No error in the BMS, it saw it go up. But it thinks it gained 5% while the battery/battery charger show it full or almost full.
  • Almost solidly 0A going into the battery, so while I'm below well below target, and even below what it itself has charged itself to before, it seems to know it's full.
  • What the hell...is going on...
  • Everything is making guesses about the state of the battery, and they're all wrong. And these guesses are being used to control charging. I have no idea what is correct.
  • Is it indicative of a bad sensor? 5A of current running through it for multiple hours, reported as a 5% gain? Feeding the system bad data, throwing off its charging?
  • Do I just quit trying? Say screw it, plug the turd in the wall when the lights quit coming on? Go by feel instead of data? Because right now, I don't know.

Will continue to update this post.
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Last edited:

sockeye

2.5L Hybrid
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Welcome to the club. Same deep sleep crap on my XLT hybrid except mine has always started. Had it into the dealer and they reset the BMS, a fix that lasted approx. 12 hrs. Going back for the side curtain airbag fix early May. I'll have 'em look at it again.

Hey Ford rep, lots of your customers are having this problem and it's leaving a pretty bad taste. Where's the fix?
 

Joseph Cobbs

2.5L Hybrid
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My Maverick hybrid had a problem at 1700 miles. No gauges worked and would not go into the ready position to drive. I unhooked battery and charged it, the truck worked good for 3 days then did it again, I had to take it to the dealership here on the Island 3 times.They had no clue what to do. My Maverick Hybrid is the only one in Puerto Rico. I showed them the youtube videos about the problems with the fuse box and bad cable from the small battery to the fuse box. The dealership could only find a problem with the fuse box. they replace it. The first time the dealership had it for 2 days and I had to pay for a rental car. The next time they had it for 2 weeks but they gave me a loaner car for free. I know how frustrating it can be when your new truck does not work and the dealership does not know how to fix it. Be patient the dealership will fix it and you will be cruising down the road again. I paid 7,000$ over list because I live on and Island in paradise. I have not had any more problems with the truck now for 5,000 miles.
I love my Maverick Hybrid and I am getting over 50 miles per gallon or more .
 

Senior Master Ford Guy

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Hey everyone who is having this problem, I am a Ford service technician and there are a couple of special service messages related to this problem that Ford has released to us to aid in diagnosing and to check on root causes of the concern. This may or may not help your specific case but here are a couple things to keep in mind, and if you are not getting much satisfaction from your local dealer( as in the " we charged and tested the battery and it tests good" case," maybe you can " educate" them on what to look for lol. The first is :
SSM 50804 2013-2023 Various Vehicles - 12 Volt Battery Drain When Using Third Party Phone Applications- Modems Activated Through FordPass Or LincolnWay
Some 2013-2023 Ford or Lincoln vehicles with modems activated through FordPass or LincolnWay may experience 12 volt battery drain symptoms when the customer uses non-Ford/Lincoln phone applications as an alternate channel to access vehicle commands such as door lock/unlock, remote start, vehicle location, etc. The battery drain may be caused by excessive calls for data through the vehicle network keeping it in an activated state. Recommend that the customer uninstall the app to ensure this is not contributing to battery symptoms experienced. Advise the customer that unaffiliated third-party app developers do not work directly with Ford to adhere to security, vehicle communication, and privacy requirements.
The second, and this was just released within the last few weeks/month at the most :
SSM 51449 2020-2023 Various Vehicles - SYNC3 - Inaccurate Deep Sleep Notifications In FordPass/LincolnWay
Some 2020-2023 Ford and Lincoln SYNC3 equipped vehicles may experience an inaccurate notification in the FordPass®/LincolnWay® app indicating Vehicle Has Entered Deep Sleep Mode. Vehicle Has Entered Deep Sleep Mode message is expected if the vehicle has not been started for 14 consecutive days, battery voltage is at/below 9.5 volts or the body control module (BCM) 12 volt battery state of charge (SoC) drops below 50%. If the vehicle is going into deep sleep outside these conditions, this may be due to the telematics control unit (TCU) software. To correct this condition, follow the Service Procedure to update the TCU to the latest software. For claiming, use causal part 14G229 and applicable labor operations in Section 10 of the Service Labor Time Standards (SLTS) Manual.
This may not help everyone, but hopefully will help someone or some of you!
 

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bgn

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Hey everyone who is having this problem, I am a Ford service technician and there are a couple of special service messages related to this problem that Ford has released to us to aid in diagnosing and to check on root causes of the concern. This may or may not help your specific case but here are a couple things to keep in mind, and if you are not getting much satisfaction from your local dealer( as in the " we charged and tested the battery and it tests good" case," maybe you can " educate" them on what to look for lol. The first is :
SSM 50804 2013-2023 Various Vehicles - 12 Volt Battery Drain When Using Third Party Phone Applications- Modems Activated Through FordPass Or LincolnWay
Some 2013-2023 Ford or Lincoln vehicles with modems activated through FordPass or LincolnWay may experience 12 volt battery drain symptoms when the customer uses non-Ford/Lincoln phone applications as an alternate channel to access vehicle commands such as door lock/unlock, remote start, vehicle location, etc. The battery drain may be caused by excessive calls for data through the vehicle network keeping it in an activated state. Recommend that the customer uninstall the app to ensure this is not contributing to battery symptoms experienced. Advise the customer that unaffiliated third-party app developers do not work directly with Ford to adhere to security, vehicle communication, and privacy requirements.
The second, and this was just released within the last few weeks/month at the most :
SSM 51449 2020-2023 Various Vehicles - SYNC3 - Inaccurate Deep Sleep Notifications In FordPass/LincolnWay
Some 2020-2023 Ford and Lincoln SYNC3 equipped vehicles may experience an inaccurate notification in the FordPass®/LincolnWay® app indicating Vehicle Has Entered Deep Sleep Mode. Vehicle Has Entered Deep Sleep Mode message is expected if the vehicle has not been started for 14 consecutive days, battery voltage is at/below 9.5 volts or the body control module (BCM) 12 volt battery state of charge (SoC) drops below 50%. If the vehicle is going into deep sleep outside these conditions, this may be due to the telematics control unit (TCU) software. To correct this condition, follow the Service Procedure to update the TCU to the latest software. For claiming, use causal part 14G229 and applicable labor operations in Section 10 of the Service Labor Time Standards (SLTS) Manual.
This may not help everyone, but hopefully will help someone or some of you!
I don't have this issue, but wanted to thank you for spending your time on here educating us.
 

cneth

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....
If the vehicle is going into deep sleep outside these conditions, this may be due to the telematics control unit (TCU) software. To correct this condition, follow the Service Procedure to update the TCU to the latest software. For claiming, use causal part 14G229 and applicable labor operations in Section 10 of the Service Labor Time Standards (SLTS) Manual.
...
I don't have the Hybrid, and don't know anything in particular about the Ford TCU implementation, but I am familiar with 'internet connected stuff' like the TCU and this definitely sounds like it could be a cause of problems like this. The TCU has a cell modem in and it and that may be staying on too long or using too much power in areas where there is bad cell reception. That might also explain why the dealer doesn't see the issue - they may have good reception at the dealership, so the radio doesn't get into the 'bad' state.

While it's not a fix, it might be an interesting experiment to pull the fuse for the TCU. That'll break the Fordpass stuff but might tell you if the TCU/TCM is the issue. There is another thread on this site that discusses this:

https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/f...devices-in-mavericks.28952/page-4#post-542259
 

commadorebob

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I don't have the Hybrid, and don't know anything in particular about the Ford TCU implementation, but I am familiar with 'internet connected stuff' like the TCU and this definitely sounds like it could be a cause of problems like this. The TCU has a cell modem in and it and that may be staying on too long or using too much power in areas where there is bad cell reception. That might also explain why the dealer doesn't see the issue - they may have good reception at the dealership, so the radio doesn't get into the 'bad' state.

While it's not a fix, it might be an interesting experiment to pull the fuse for the TCU. That'll break the Fordpass stuff but might tell you if the TCU/TCM is the issue. There is another thread on this site that discusses this:

https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/f...devices-in-mavericks.28952/page-4#post-542259
This was going to be my post, essentially. AT&T radios are bad about draining a battery trying to connect to data rather than give it up as lost. If you have wi-fi at home, try connecting your vehicle up to that. That might circumvent some of the radio telemetrics attempting to go over LTE.
 

ListedGuru

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Hey everyone who is having this problem, I am a Ford service technician and there are a couple of special service messages related to this problem that Ford has released to us to aid in diagnosing and to check on root causes of the concern. This may or may not help your specific case but here are a couple things to keep in mind, and if you are not getting much satisfaction from your local dealer( as in the " we charged and tested the battery and it tests good" case," maybe you can " educate" them on what to look for lol. The first is :
SSM 50804 2013-2023 Various Vehicles - 12 Volt Battery Drain When Using Third Party Phone Applications- Modems Activated Through FordPass Or LincolnWay
Some 2013-2023 Ford or Lincoln vehicles with modems activated through FordPass or LincolnWay may experience 12 volt battery drain symptoms when the customer uses non-Ford/Lincoln phone applications as an alternate channel to access vehicle commands such as door lock/unlock, remote start, vehicle location, etc. The battery drain may be caused by excessive calls for data through the vehicle network keeping it in an activated state. Recommend that the customer uninstall the app to ensure this is not contributing to battery symptoms experienced. Advise the customer that unaffiliated third-party app developers do not work directly with Ford to adhere to security, vehicle communication, and privacy requirements.
The second, and this was just released within the last few weeks/month at the most :
SSM 51449 2020-2023 Various Vehicles - SYNC3 - Inaccurate Deep Sleep Notifications In FordPass/LincolnWay
Some 2020-2023 Ford and Lincoln SYNC3 equipped vehicles may experience an inaccurate notification in the FordPass®/LincolnWay® app indicating Vehicle Has Entered Deep Sleep Mode. Vehicle Has Entered Deep Sleep Mode message is expected if the vehicle has not been started for 14 consecutive days, battery voltage is at/below 9.5 volts or the body control module (BCM) 12 volt battery state of charge (SoC) drops below 50%. If the vehicle is going into deep sleep outside these conditions, this may be due to the telematics control unit (TCU) software. To correct this condition, follow the Service Procedure to update the TCU to the latest software. For claiming, use causal part 14G229 and applicable labor operations in Section 10 of the Service Labor Time Standards (SLTS) Manual.
This may not help everyone, but hopefully will help someone or some of you!
I was wondering if you can comment if anyone of these issues you outlined for the Maverick are also applicable to the MY22 or MY23 Escape Hybrid? I think the hybrid system is the same in the Escape and the Maverick but not sure if these and other issues such as grabby brakes, bad battery harness issue,etc also pertain to the MY22 or MY23 Escape hybrid?

We might buying a 2023 Escape hybrid soon so looking for into on potential issues.
 

jsus

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I was wondering if you can comment if anyone of these issues you outlined for the Maverick are also applicable to the MY22 or MY23 Escape Hybrid? I think the hybrid system is the same in the Escape and the Maverick but not sure if these and other issues such as grabby brakes, bad battery harness issue,etc also pertain to the MY22 or MY23 Escape hybrid?

We might buying a 2023 Escape hybrid soon so looking for into on potential issues.
Keep in mind that 2023 Escape is basically just a facelift, and the hybrid powertrain remains largely the same from 2020-2022.

Brakes: haven't seen too much in terms of complaints. Haven't experienced anything concerning in 7000 miles on an Escape Hybrid, other than the little oddities that come with a hybrid. Believe the software/calibration is different between Maverick and Escape, which is also why the TSBs for Maverick have not included Escape, and there don't appear to be any for Escape. Seems Escape might be a bit better refined...

12V harness: haven't heard anything about that on Escapes. Maverick uses a different part for obvious reasons (the battery is in a different location at a different distance from the engine bay which is laid out slightly differently, for instance).

Now, the 12V battery, that's the same undersized battery that often leads to symptoms such as frequent deep sleep. From all available accounts, these are largely addressed by putting in a larger ~$200 48H6 AGM battery, which is more or less a drop-in replacement. Ford stubbornly refuses to put this battery in from the factory or as a warranty replacement. Mine will be getting one soon after the factory battery died to the point of needing a jump.
 
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ListedGuru

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Keep in mind that 2023 Escape is basically just a facelift, and the hybrid powertrain remains largely the same from 2020-2022.

Brakes: haven't seen too much in terms of complaints. Haven't experienced anything concerning in 7000 miles on an Escape Hybrid, other than the little oddities that come with a hybrid. Believe the software/calibration is different between Maverick and Escape, which is also why the TSBs for Maverick have not included Escape, and there don't appear to be any for Escape. Seems Escape might be a bit better refined...

12V harness: haven't heard anything about that on Escapes. Maverick uses a different part for obvious reasons (the battery is in a different location at a different distance from the engine bay which is laid out slightly differently, for instance).

Now, the 12V battery, that's the same undersized battery that often leads to symptoms such as frequent deep sleep. From all available accounts, these are largely addressed by putting in a larger ~$200 48H6 AGM battery, which is more or less a drop-in replacement. Ford stubbornly refuses to put this battery in from the factory or as a warranty replacement. Mine will be getting one soon after the factory battery died to the point of needing a jump.
Thank you very much for the detailed response. What year Escape hybrid do you have? How are you liking it and what kind of MPG are you seeing? The 23 we drive was very smooth but I thought the noise from the 2.5 was kind of loud but it sounds like that's normal?
 

jsus

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Thank you very much for the detailed response. What year Escape hybrid do you have? How are you liking it and what kind of MPG are you seeing? The 23 we drive was very smooth but I thought the noise from the 2.5 was kind of loud but it sounds like that's normal?
It's a 2022 Escape SEL Hybrid AWD with the SEL Technology Package and Panoramic Vista Roof. Can't get an AWD Hybrid Maverick. ;)

Other than the undersized battery (and not getting the foot-activated lift gate because "chip shortage"), I have no real complaints.

The engine noise itself will be the same between Maverick and Escape hybrids (it's the same engine, after all). However, the sound insulation is maybe a bit better on Escape and not all Mavericks even get that, so Escape might be a bit quieter inside. The noise doesn't really bother me but some are more picky about these things. It's not like the EcoBoosts are particularly quiet. Only difference is a hybrid may "idle" higher than an EB because it's charging the battery even while stopped, things like that. Overall, it's been very smooth and seamless so far, *knock on wood*.

Efficiency reports always need to be taken in context because different roads and different driving styles play a huge role in it. That said, overall, no complaints. Even in winter, it wasn't that difficult to meet/beat the EPA ratings. Warmer weather means it's not hard to hit 50 mpg city or 40+ mpg highway. More congested suburban driving has at least a couple times beat 60 mpg. Compared to a Focus that struggled to hit its same 37 mpg highway rating, to get better mileage out of a larger Escape with more ground clearance, etc., that's hard to complain about. AWD on an EcoBoost Escape is a ~3 mpg city/highway hit, but it's negligible on the hybrids somehow.
 

Senior Master Ford Guy

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My constant dead battery went away after I uninstalled the Karr security system installed by my dealership.
That is one of the things they typically have us check for whenever there is a battery drain problem, and also many other types of problems: aftermarket add-on accessories. Sometimes it's not necessarily the accessory itself, but how it has been installed and wired .
 

ListedGuru

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Keep in mind that 2023 Escape is basically just a facelift, and the hybrid powertrain remains largely the same from 2020-2022.

Brakes: haven't seen too much in terms of complaints. Haven't experienced anything concerning in 7000 miles on an Escape Hybrid, other than the little oddities that come with a hybrid. Believe the software/calibration is different between Maverick and Escape, which is also why the TSBs for Maverick have not included Escape, and there don't appear to be any for Escape. Seems Escape might be a bit better refined...

12V harness: haven't heard anything about that on Escapes. Maverick uses a different part for obvious reasons (the battery is in a different location at a different distance from the engine bay which is laid out slightly differently, for instance).

Now, the 12V battery, that's the same undersized battery that often leads to symptoms such as frequent deep sleep. From all available accounts, these are largely addressed by putting in a larger ~$200 48H6 AGM battery, which is more or less a drop-in replacement. Ford stubbornly refuses to put this battery in from the factory or as a warranty replacement. Mine will be getting one soon after the factory battery died to the point of needing a jump.
I just reread your reply again and saw that you mentioned you were going to be replacing your 12V battery soon. Did you get any sort of deep sleep messages that we see here on the Mav thread for your escape? I'm curious what symptoms you experienced that led to the factory 12V battery dieing?
 

brettpep

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I have a 3-month-old Hybrid. Received the Deep Sleep message while the truck was parked at the airport and I was on the West Coast. Got off the plane, and the vehicle was completely dead. Jumped it, and drove home. Switched out the battery for an aftermarket as I was going on vacation and could not afford to have any problems. Since that time (3 weeks ago), no issues.
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