🚨 Email Update from Ford -- EcoBoost constraints ease; Hybrid battery availability limited

[jsus]

I still just don't see the energy cost savings of an EV over an ICE. It's the same energy required to move either. You pay one way or the other.

It’s not, though. ICE (internal combustion engine) is inherently inefficient technology - just consider the heat energy that an engine gives off (wastes). You’ve probably noticed your hood feels hot long after the vehicle is turned off (less with a hybrid of course). That heat comes from the energy in the gas you bought and got no use out of. Instead of moving your vehicle down the road, that energy just heated up the atmosphere. The best case “thermal efficiency” is like 40% in a hybrid, the rest of the energy in your gasoline is wasted.

EVs are much more efficient at getting usage (propulsion, powering electronics) out of a given amount of energy, because they don’t waste so much energy as heat to the atmosphere, amongst other reasons.

Edited because MTC on mobile inevitably leads to auto incorrect no matter how many times you proofread...

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[gator_dub]

It’s not, though. ICE is inherently inefficient technology - just consider the energy that an engine gives off. You’ve probably noticed your hood feels hot long after the vehicle is turned off (less with a hybrid of course). That’s all hear from the energy in the gas you bought and got no use out of. The best case “thermal efficiency” is like 40% in a hybrid, the rest of the energy in your gasoline is wasted.

EVs are more efficient at getting usage (propulsion, powering electronics) out of a given amount of energy, because they don’t ware so much energy as heat to the atmosphere, etc.

This! Also power plants are way more efficient in creating energy and sending it to your house to charge your EV. The question becomes as we move towards EV vehicles can our infrastructure support it? Can we also move quickly towards cleaner and more efficient power generation (Nuclear). Battery technology needs to improve and will improve. We also need to move towards a more ethical supply chain in obtaining the resources required for battery production and recycling.

 

[BradnChristine]

I still just don't see the energy cost savings of an EV over an ICE. It's the same energy required to move either. You pay one way or the other.

That energy rule (It cannot be created or destroyed) is why I love my hybrids. Regenerative braking re-capturing energy that is normally simply wasted in heat as you step on the brakes.

Hybrid tech makes much more sense to me than trying to create a useful EV on an already overtaxed electrical grid where its "rulers" often ask (or force) that you cannot charge your EV.

 

[Rlb080]

My Nissan Leaf averages 4.2 miles/Kwh. I charge it home during off peak hours when the cost is $0.04 / Kwh. I also have solar panels and am able to charge it when panels are producing electricity. So my cost to to drive 1 mile is about a penny. My Maverick hybrid gets 40 mpg. Gas cost me $4/gal. So the Mav costs $0.10/mile. That is 10 times the cost of the Leaf. My F150 averaged 17 miles/gal. At $4/gal it was costing me $0.23/mile. That is over twice what the Mav costs and 23 times what my EV costs. I'm not using public charging where the cist/mile is a lot higher.

 

[Old Man]

Engineers have calculated average total energy cost comparisons between BEV and ICE but at a generic level. There are far too many variables between vehicles, driving habits, locations, variable costs, etc. to do any individual comparison. Five years ago their conclusion by region was except for the Pacific northwest and their hydropower all other regions it was still more expensive to drive EV than ICE. As more wind and solar have come on line and battery efficiency has increased other regions have gotten more neutral in comparison.

Future factors to increase electric costs are the push to remove dams for environmental reasons, a big increase in power grid expansion and replacement, wind turbines reaching the end of their useful life in large numbers needing replacement. The infrastructure legislation for charging expansion, expanding the power grid and rebates is a huge cost we are all having to pay for whether we have an EV or not. So at a macro level EV is more costly to all of us.

 

[Huchipapa]

Ford warned everyone a long time ago that Hybrids are constrained and will be produced less than the Ecoboost version. This is old news, but people seem to always be surprised. Ford has been saying this all along, but everyone still ordered Hybrids. Dealers should have been upfront with people that if they order a Hybrid, they may never see it.

Or, better yet, Ford shouldn’t have accepted orders beyond capacity. That’s what irritates me.

 

[AURktman]

Got it too, oh well. I’ve already moved on.

 

[Raschaef]

I wouldn't touch that Email

Ford account is real. I communicated with them. Ford is monitoring groups like this and social media so They know what we feel and express on line.

 

[Robert C]

Ford account is real. I communicated with them. Ford is monitoring groups like this and social media so They know what we feel and express on line.

If they cared there as so so many things they could have done completely differently that would have taken less manpower than one guy eating cheetos surfing facebook to see what we feel.
It's both a positive giving hope for the future - and sad that you think they care.
I hope they are not monitoring me, I'll never get my truck.

 

[TomD]

I got the email also. I don’t remember any details what was causing the problem. What I did get out of the email was a veiled suggestion to reorder the truck next month.
77% of Mavericks ordered are hybrids and Ford can only supply the batteries for 35% of those orders.
If Ford is relying on the new battery plants being built to resolve the shortage the problem will last a few more years. The plants need to be completed and the bugs worked out before they can expect to be flush with product.

19130"]
I just got it too
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[jpdurr]

Ford warned everyone a long time ago that Hybrids are constrained and will be produced less than the Ecoboost version. This is old news, but people seem to always be surprised. Ford has been saying this all along, but everyone still ordered Hybrids. Dealers should have been upfront with people that if they order a Hybrid, they may never see it.

That Said, Ford Should have NEVER taken more Hybrid Orders than they had the Capacity to Build.

This is on Ford, not on the people who ordered Ford Products.....

 

[jpdurr]

"Est. 6-year gas savings"?
So...the Tesla is free to charge?
Where does that energy come from? And who pays for it?
I think this is missed (or just ignored) by many EV advocates - that you don't get something from nothing.
It's odd that it needs to be said.
All cars take energy to move. Wheather you get that from gas or from electricity that you got from burning coal or a nuclear power plant. It's the same energy.
Most electric only cars are moving on the energy supplied by burning coal - and you pay that electric bill just like you pay for gas.

Not sure where you are able to support you assertion that most Cars are supplied by energy created from Burning Coal.

only 30% of the US Electricity market is supplied from the use of Coal (30% does not constitute Most):

https://www.epa.gov/energy/about-us-electricity-system-and-its-impact-environment

Furthermore, consumers in most markets do have a choice in specifying how the electricity they pay for is generated.

This doesn't even take into effect the increased efficiency of an Electric Motor versus a Combustion Motor in converting to product power.

 

[Mmikada]

That Said, Ford Should have NEVER taken more Hybrid Orders than they had the Capacity to Build.

This is on Ford, not on the people who ordered Ford Products.....

With that said, people that ordered a hybrid first should be prioritized to receive their car. I don't understand how people are receiving their hybrid orders when they ordered days into the order period.

 

[Edrobyn]

Right, Ford is already abandoning the Lightning design and having to pay for development of an all new T3 electric truck because they can't make enough money on the Lightning.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43409549/fords-next-electric-pickup-truck-confirmed-2025/

And the Mach-e, even after trying to keep up with Tesla's price drops has 154 days on hand.
https://caredge.com/guides/new-car-inventory-2023

This report shows a 30 day inventory of Mavericks???

 

[Automate]

This report shows a 30 day inventory of Mavericks???

Their definition of inventory:

Inventory: Unit count of vehicles on hand at dealerships, factory lots, ports of entry and in transit on a specific date

So it not just those at the dealer, but also those in shipment.

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