Lifepo4 battery use in olace of a 12v regular battery

[Ohhappy]

Can I use a lifepo4 battery to replace the standard lead acid battery. They are making small footprint batteries that match the size of the battery case. What about charging requirements.

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[paneubert]

No. The charging profiles are completely different between Lead Acid and Lithium Iron Phosphate. You can't modify the BMS in the truck, so it is going to always charge it as if it was a Lead Acid.

Look at the info and charts at this link to see what I mean. It won't explode on you or anything, but it will not be charged/maintained properly over time.

https://www.power-sonic.com/blog/how-to-charge-lithium-iron-phosphate-lifepo4-batteries/

 

[ShadowBlack XL440]

No. The charging profiles are completely different between Lead Acid and Lithium Iron Phosphate. You can't modify the BMS in the truck, so it is going to always charge it as if it was a Lead Acid.

Look at the info and charts at this link to see what I mean. It won't explode on you or anything, but it will not be charged/maintained properly over time.

https://www.power-sonic.com/blog/how-to-charge-lithium-iron-phosphate-lifepo4-batteries/

I considered LifePo4 battery also but went with AGM. I have upgraded a Polaris RZR and 2 Sportsman quads with LifePo4 batteries and have not had any problems so far. They seem to charge fine and I thought that was due to having built in BMS controllers. I was not willing to gamble it on my new Hybrid.

 

[paneubert]

I considered LifePo4 battery also but went with AGM. I have upgraded a Polaris RZR and 2 Sportsman quads with LifePo4 batteries and have not had any problems so far. They seem to charge fine and I thought that was due to having built in BMS controllers. I was not willing to gamble it on my new Hybrid.

If the BMS is in the battery, and can control the charge profile, then sure. The battery itself would essentially be calling for whatever voltage and amperage that it wants from the alternator.

But on the Maverick the BMS is separate from the battery and can't be modified to use a LifePo4 charging profile. You know what is worse than a LifePo4 battery being charged as an AGM? A system where there are two BMS involved in series. Bad idea to have a battery with a built in BMS hooked to a vehicle that also has a BMS of its own involved. Which BMS is the boss? Both? Neither? It is asking for trouble.

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

I considered LifePo4 battery also but went with AGM. I have upgraded a Polaris RZR and 2 Sportsman quads with LifePo4 batteries and have not had any problems so far. They seem to charge fine and I thought that was due to having built in BMS controllers. I was not willing to gamble it on my new Hybrid.

I had switched to lithium batteries on my motorcycles and atv because of how light weight they were.
I was wondering if they would work in the Maverick. I guess not.

 

[Darnon]

Even with the integrated BMSes most usually mention in their specs not to charge over ~14.6 volts. Considering the truck can charge at 15 volts or more you'd pretty much need an external DC-DC charge controller (see, this is turning into a not so simple swap).

 

[Headbanger]

I had switched to lithium batteries on my motorcycles and atv because of how light weight they were.
I was wondering if they would work in the Maverick. I guess not.

I saved 100lbs of weight swapping my motorhome coach lead acid's for lithiums. Worth every penny.

 

[inline_five]

Anything below 32F and the battery shouldn't be charged. Also you'll have issues as it gets colder than that do to how lithium batteries perform while cold. It may not even start.

Just buy an AGM. Don't overthink it. We have a ten year old AGM in my wife's Prius. The batteries aren't subject to deep discharge like regular car batteries are due to not having to crank the starter, so they last a lot longer.

 

[ZABSMAV]

If the BMS is in the battery, and can control the charge profile, then sure. The battery itself would essentially be calling for whatever voltage and amperage that it wants from the alternator.

But on the Maverick the BMS is separate from the battery and can't be modified to use a LifePo4 charging profile. You know what is worse than a LifePo4 battery being charged as an AGM? A system where there are two BMS involved in series. Bad idea to have a battery with a built in BMS hooked to a vehicle that also has a BMS of its own involved. Which BMS is the boss? Both? Neither? It is asking for trouble.

The Maverick Hybrid doesn't have an alternator.

 

[Blue316]

The Maverick Hybrid doesn't have an alternator.

Actually, a belt driven alternator no, but at the same time does it have a generator? Probably not. It probably has a mechanically driven alternator.

 

[paneubert]

The Maverick Hybrid doesn't have an alternator.

I am aware. I drive a hybrid. But sure, if you want to pedantic. Feel free to sub in the word "HV Battery" for alternator. That is probably the most accurate since the traction motor/generator charges the HV, which charges the 12v. Blah blah blah.

Either way, if there is an integrated BMS in the battery, it is going to act as the brain for charging the battery. If used in a Maverick, no bueno since the Maverick has a BMS essentially on the post, also trying to act like the brain for charging.

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

In simple terms.
The way I understand it.
The 12 volt battery is used to energize the system and for accessory use. The 12 volt battery is charged off the high voltage battery which in turn gets its energy from regeneration or the engine when required.

 

[Darnon]

Actually, a belt driven alternator no, but at the same time does it have a generator? Probably not. It probably has a mechanically driven alternator.

Not in a sense that directly charges the battery. But either way it's kind of pedantic in a way that is extraneous to the conversation.

 

[HeyBales]

Actually, a belt driven alternator no, but at the same time does it have a generator? Probably not. It probably has a mechanically driven alternator.

It does have a generator motor - that feeds a DCDC Convertor.
Along with the traction motor doing the same on coasting/braking.
No Alternator, mechanical or belt.

 

[HeyBales]

If the BMS is in the battery, and can control the charge profile, then sure. The battery itself would essentially be calling for whatever voltage and amperage that it wants from the alternator.

But on the Maverick the BMS is separate from the battery and can't be modified to use a LifePo4 charging profile. You know what is worse than a LifePo4 battery being charged as an AGM? A system where there are two BMS involved in series. Bad idea to have a battery with a built in BMS hooked to a vehicle that also has a BMS of its own involved. Which BMS is the boss? Both? Neither? It is asking for trouble.

I wonder if the truck would just throw codes if the Battery Sensor was just disconnected, or go for a no-start situation?

And if just throwing a MIL - would a default charging strategy be used by the truck BMS that the battery BMS could make use of?

I'm betting fail-safe would be too low amps and volts for the battery BMS to use, battery would probably degrade over time too.

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