Thinking ahead -- Are the batteries in the hybrid consumer replaceable?

[abjbrtd]

Software to the rescue, our 13 cmax had the software upgraded 3 times.

Currently Hyundai is prolonging the life of their batteries that are being recalled for a manufacturing problem using software.
I assume GM is doing the same thing, they use the same battery, with the same problems

Sponsored

 

[Darnon]

I assume GM is doing the same thing, they use the same battery, with the same problems

...and they kept starting on fire because good luck fixing a hardware problem with a software solution. So now GM is having to recall all the Bolts for battery replacement.

 

[Delzona]

mileage seems the incorrect assessment since batteries also majorly degrade over simple time even if just sitting there, unlike Ice engine. sure, you might be able to stack 100k-200k miles on within a couple years, but long terms is another story.

i also doubt batteries are getting any cheaper and imagine 1k is a pipe dream. i believe i saw a recent youtube where it's 18k to replace the battery in a tesla (j this case the guy ran over something and it punctured a cell). I was shocked at that. as I figured the cost more for the 5-8k range.

I drive a 2008 ICE and its still going strong. I could hope for it to last 20 years no problem.

I feel like sometimes after 10-ish years that battery is going to need replacing and it's going to be costly. Just something to keep in mind. None of the people here saying dont worry about it are going to be around and volunteer to pay your bill to replace the battery in ten years, I promise you that lol! Neither will you be able to tell the shop "this guy on the internet said it would only cost 1k by now!" when they tell you it costs 5k, 10k, or whatever the number is lol. That guys post plus $1 will get you a large soda at McDonalds.

Nowdays a lot of people trade in their vehicle every few years anyway. If you're in that camp, obviously you dont need to care as much.

This internet guy shows you how to replace a Prius battery pack.
He paid $1200, shows the quote from the local dealership for $4k. Most of the cost for replacing a battery pack is labor and if you watch this video you can see why. It's not hard to do just labor intensive. That being said, the location of the Maverick battery should be much easier, if/when it comes time to replace it. I also believe that battery prices will come down or stay roughly the same, but certainly will become more efficient. So with that I'm off with the video guy's post and my $1 to get my soda at McD's!

 

[Darnon]

The Maverick's battery pack might be a bit complicated on the labor side since it has the heating/cooling hookups for it. The battery pack on my Fusion is pretty easy to get at since it's all air cooled, just big and heavy. The Escape Hybrid and Maverick actually use a quite compact and light (56lbs) battery pack although the capacity has actually gone down.

 

[fbov]

My 2012 Ford Fusion Hybrid is still on its first battery, and it is the older nickel metal hydride. The newer batteries are lithium based and should have better conditioning software, so I'm not worried.

This statement goes with this chart from 2012. Ford hybrids all switched to Li-ion in the 2013 model year. C-Max HVB experience validates the test's predictions. That's why I call it a life-of-car part. Hybrids that routinely replace batteries are using NiMH, whose capacity falls off eventually.

 

[Ricstar]

With the original hybrid battery? What is your MPG nowadays? Mine is in a 2005 with 94k miles on the original battery and averaging 42 mpg around town. Although the Toyota mechanic next door tells the batteries don’t often last past 10 years.

Gave the car to our college our daughter a couple years ago, she drives it to school about 3 hours away and then around the town there, gets about 40 mpg and yes still on the original battery

 

[WasChops]

I'm driving a 2015 Prius I bought new. Still going strong with 140K. A friend has a 2012 that's still on original battery.... Hope this gives you some idea

Hmmm Toyota reliability -v- Ford reputation for reliability... IMHO not a good comparison....

 

[Bill Cather]

Hmmm Toyota reliability -v- Ford reputation for reliability... IMHO not a good comparison....

Good point…. I swore in 1988 after my Bronco II’s roof paint was peeling (Which came off the same line as the F150 which they had a recall for the same paint problem) and they said recall was only F150…Sorry. I told the guy at the time that Ford got my last penny. Been Toyota or Honda (BMW till warranty ended and got my first repair bill FM). So YOU mellow with age and Ford comes up with an idea and you can forgive…… I HOPE!!!!! We’ll see how it performs

 

[Espeer]

mileage seems the incorrect assessment since batteries also majorly degrade over simple time even if just sitting there, unlike Ice engine. sure, you might be able to stack 100k-200k miles on within a couple years, but long terms is another story.

i also doubt batteries are getting any cheaper and imagine 1k is a pipe dream. i believe i saw a recent youtube where it's 18k to replace the battery in a tesla (j this case the guy ran over something and it punctured a cell). I was shocked at that. as I figured the cost more for the 5-8k range.

I drive a 2008 ICE and its still going strong. I could hope for it to last 20 years no problem.

I feel like sometimes after 10-ish years that battery is going to need replacing and it's going to be costly. Just something to keep in mind. None of the people here saying dont worry about it are going to be around and volunteer to pay your bill to replace the battery in ten years, I promise you that lol! Neither will you be able to tell the shop "this guy on the internet said it would only cost 1k by now!" when they tell you it costs 5k, 10k, or whatever the number is lol. That guys post plus $1 will get you a large soda at McDonalds.

Nowdays a lot of people trade in their vehicle every few years anyway. If you're in that camp, obviously you dont need to care as much.

You know that a tesla's battery pack is at least 50 times larger than the battery in a maverick, correct?

 

[Mymaverick2021]

mileage seems the incorrect assessment since batteries also majorly degrade over simple time even if just sitting there, unlike Ice engine. sure, you might be able to stack 100k-200k miles on within a couple years, but long terms is another story.

i also doubt batteries are getting any cheaper and imagine 1k is a pipe dream. i believe i saw a recent youtube where it's 18k to replace the battery in a tesla (j this case the guy ran over something and it punctured a cell). I was shocked at that. as I figured the cost more for the 5-8k range.

I drive a 2008 ICE and its still going strong. I could hope for it to last 20 years no problem.

I feel like sometimes after 10-ish years that battery is going to need replacing and it's going to be costly. Just something to keep in mind. None of the people here saying dont worry about it are going to be around and volunteer to pay your bill to replace the battery in ten years, I promise you that lol! Neither will you be able to tell the shop "this guy on the internet said it would only cost 1k by now!" when they tell you it costs 5k, 10k, or whatever the number is lol. That guys post plus $1 will get you a large soda at McDonalds.

Nowdays a lot of people trade in their vehicle every few years anyway. If you're in that camp, obviously you dont need to care as much.

@ 20K for a new truck better just to upgrade,Save the old 1 for parts!

 

[gorignak]

@ 20K for a new truck better just to upgrade,Save the old 1 for parts!

The battery in the Maverick is tiny compared to one in a Tesla so it will be much cheaper.

 

[huunvubu]

Electric Vehicle Battery Pack Costs In 2021 — 87% Lower Than In 2008


https://cleantechnica.com/2021/10/0...tery-pack-costs-in-2021-87-lower-than-in-2008

“Research by the Department of Energy’s (DOE) Vehicle Technologies Office estimates the cost of an electric vehicle lithium-ion battery pack declined 87% between 2008 and 2021 (using 2021 constant dollars),” the DOE writes. “The 2021 estimate is $157/kWh on a usable-energy basis (the equivalent of $143/kWh on a rated-energy basis) for production at scale, i.e., 100,000 units per year. That compares to $1,237/kWh on a usable-energy basis in 2008. The decline in cost is a combination of improvements in battery technologies and chemistries, and an increase in manufacturing volume.”

Using the $157/kWh times the 1.1 KWh battery in the Maverick puts the cost at $173. This number is probably only the battery cells so there is additional costs with sensors, wiring, casing and other stuff. And of course labor for the actual replacement.

But the old "it will cost $8000 to $12000 to replace" or even the $5k one posted early in this thread are way too high based on this report. Also remember the High Voltage battery pack is warranted for 8 years so future prices my be even lower.

 

[JASmith]

That's a foolish reason to sell. The HVB is a life-of-the-car part if undamaged and not abused. You'll rebuild the engine first, and it only runs 60% of the time.

60% of the time it works every time.

Anecdotally, I know a lot of people who drive hybrids. Many of those hybrids now have significantly more than 100,000 miles on the battery. None of those people has ever replaced that battery. Even if you were super unlucky, and you did have to replace the hybrid battery at 120,000 miles, by that time, there's a good chance that the cost of a refurbished battery would be less than $1,000. Batteries get cheaper all the time.

A couple issues here:
1) How do you define lithium battery failure? With EVs, the industry standard seems to be that if more than 30% capacity is lost before the warranty is up, they will consider that a failure. With hybrids that don't rely on the battery for range, and you merely see slightly diminished fuel economy, even a battery with only 50% capacity is usually considered still fine, even though clearly its not functioning like new anymore. Your lithium battery WILL degrade over time even without usage, just like it would in your laptop or cellphone. The question is how much it will degrade, and if you care that your mileage may be slightly less since it won't be able to travel quite as often or as long in EV since it can capture less regenerative braking energy.

2) Proprietary batteries DO NOT get cheaper all the time, and in fact sometimes increase in price. NEW batteries decrease in price dramatically, but just as anyone with a 2012 BMW i3 paying $16K to have their lithium battery replaced why it costs that much when lithium batteries are getting cheaper every single day... sadly, while it may be cheaper for Tesla to make a new battery pack in their factory in 2021, they aren't making a battery pack for your decade old BMW which is a proprietary design, and you aren't replacing it yourself because its very high voltage and often hooked up to coolant lines and the like requiring a specialist, and specialists charge special prices.

Brass tax: Chances are your lithium battery isn't going to totally break, the tiny battery will just become effectively tinier over time, but still have enough capacity to work without throwing error codes. You may see your hybrid at 100K miles having slightly less stop and go fuel economy than it did at 50K miles, but that won't make it worth replacing. If it craps out, you'll probably just end up with a used salvaged one from a wrecked Maverick installed, because even though lithium prices may drop it doesn't mean that anyone is making proprietary pack designs or rebuilding yours cell by cell by hand cheaply.

 

[JASmith]

He paid $1200, shows the quote from the local dealership for $4k. Most of the cost for replacing a battery pack is labor and if you watch this video you can see why. It's not hard to do just labor intensive. That being said, the location of the Maverick battery should be much easier, if/when it comes time to replace it. I also believe that battery prices will come down or stay roughly the same, but certainly will become more efficient. So with that I'm off with the video guy's post and my $1 to get my soda at McD's!

Just a reminder though, that's a Nissan Leaf which is one of the few vehicles that still has an air-cooled battery pack, making replacement much easier. The Maverick is going to use a liquid cooled pack. With liquids and very high voltages mixed together, you probably want to just leave it to a professional.

 

[WasChops]

Good point…. I swore in 1988 after my Bronco II’s roof paint was peeling (Which came off the same line as the F150 which they had a recall for the same paint problem) and they said recall was only F150…Sorry. I told the guy at the time that Ford got my last penny. Been Toyota or Honda (BMW till warranty ended and got my first repair bill FM). So YOU mellow with age and Ford comes up with an idea and you can forgive…… I HOPE!!!!! We’ll see how it performs

Your story is nearly a mirror of my same buying of cars... except I never bought a truck in my former years.

Sponsored