Reliability 2.0 vs 2.5

[JASmith]

i see your points, and i will keep my ecoboost choice and stand by it for my needs/wants and cost for my plans and lifestyle. BUT you are right about the warranty and I do have built into my savings the money for an extended warranty for just in case scenarios. I dont romp on vehicles so I wont beat the hell out of the ecoboost. The only thing i disagree with you on is consumer reports. I never take their findings into account. They are often very biased towards certain models and makes. Im sure that there are issues with both powertrain and such like ANY manufacturer even toyota and everyone has to deal with them. I just dont take what consumer reports says as gospel. You may and can , I just personally shall not.

I've heard the bias remark before, but these are snippets from the same April 2021 issue that warned against the Escape, and it includes the Ford Edge as its "top recommended" status in class with a "above average" rating for predicted reliability and "excellent" overall score. There are also other domestics getting "highest reliability" scores:

The reliability scores come mostly from the survey results of their subscribers from the same vehicle of the previous model year (so this is speaking about launch year 2020 Escape experience), so it doesn't make sense that anti-Ford bias would come into play, since these are subscribers that chose to buy a Ford in the first place.

Sponsored

 

[neosolidus]

I had a GF that had an outback and that cvt was nothing but a dog, it would overheat fairly easily during winter snowstorms..... I mean if it is over heating when it is 20F and covered in snow I don't want to think what it would be like in the summertime trying to get out of a mud pit.

After that experience, we both agreed to never purchase anything with a CVT in it regardless of the BS manufacturers or salespeople say.

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

I had a GF that had an outback and that cvt was nothing but a dog, it would overheat fairly easily during winter snowstorms..... I mean if it is over heating when it is 20F and covered in snow I don't want to think what it would be like in the summertime trying to get out of a mud pit.

After that experience, we both agreed to never purchase anything with a CVT in it regardless of the BS manufacturers or salespeople say.

As many have stated, a cvt (dual cones connected by a drive belt) is a different technology than the ecvt which is planetary gear arrangement. That being said, it is absolutely your choice which way to go. I just thought I would point out the difference.

 

[JASmith]

Consumer reports has an amazing ability to see into the future.

They have an amazing ability to see into the PAST and the PRESENT, and use that to make educated guesses about the future. Again, these results are based on actual survey results from their millions of subscribers about the problems they already encountered in the past.

The only thing hypothetical and reason its called "predicted" reliability is because its based on the ACTUAL reported reliability from the previous model year. They continue to collect survey results every year from their subscribers, and that gets consolidated into their known reliability in their "best and worst used cars" section.

Think of consumer reports like a "credit score", if you have really lousy credit as an individual, its not that banks can see into the future, what they are doing is looking into the facts of the past of how good you were are repaying loans and the present of how many loans you have compared to your current reported income. Sure, they can be wrong because people can drastically change, but its not like the scores are made up from thin air, they are based on past and present known quantities.

For example, below you can see the 2012 Fiat 500 is listed as one of their "worst used cars" based on survey results of problems users encountered for that year. Not surprising, that was the first model year of the redesign, and they had launch problems. But that same 500 was produced virtually unchanged until I believe 2019, so why are all those other years not listed? 2013 Fiat 500s were listed in "worst predicted reliability" based on results from the 2012, but the 2014 was not based on improvements on quality that Fiat made. So CR was wrong about the predicted reliability about the 2013 Fiat 500, but they had good reason to give it a low score, because the 2012s had a TON of problems.

 

[WesM]

I had a GF that had an outback and that cvt was nothing but a dog, it would overheat fairly easily during winter snowstorms..... I mean if it is over heating when it is 20F and covered in snow I don't want to think what it would be like in the summertime trying to get out of a mud pit.

After that experience, we both agreed to never purchase anything with a CVT in it regardless of the BS manufacturers or salespeople say.

I mean, by that argument pretty much any early technology would never get adopted. Early concepts tend to have issues.

Ford should just call the HF45 a planetary automatic transmission to avoid confusion, because it really is nothing like the old belt driven CVT.

 

[Darnon]

I've heard the bias remark before, but these are snippets from the same April 2021 issue that warned against the Escape, and it includes the Ford Edge as its "top recommended" status in class with a "above average" rating for predicted reliability and "excellent" overall score. There are also other domestics getting "highest reliability" scores:

I wonder how the "predicted reliability" for the Bolt fares now that they've all been stop-saled and recalled for burning up....

 

[mamboman777]

I had a GF that had an outback and that cvt was nothing but a dog, it would overheat fairly easily during winter snowstorms..... I mean if it is over heating when it is 20F and covered in snow I don't want to think what it would be like in the summertime trying to get out of a mud pit.

After that experience, we both agreed to never purchase anything with a CVT in it regardless of the BS manufacturers or salespeople say.

Subaru CVT is COMPLETELY different than Ford's eCVT. Ford's eCVT is the same concept that's in the Toyota Prius.

https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/highest-mileage-new-york-city-taxis-arent-what-you-think-255766

 

[JASmith]

I wonder how the "predicted reliability" for the Bolt fares now that they've all been stop-saled and recalled for burning up....

Out of the 142K vehicles affected by the recall, supposedly only 2 have caught fire as far as I know, although clearly they identified a design defect. The vehicles can continue to be used, although they recommend only charging to 90% capacity, which would make it a "soft failure" (unlike say a transmission issue that causes the vehicle to lose power on the highway and be towed which would be more serious) and the loss of use would last as long as it takes to carry out the recall (I don't know what the turnaround is on those). Those survey results for 2021 won't show up until 2022 though.

Problems like these reported for the Escape are more serious, since they cause immediate unanticipated loss of functionality of the vehicle while on the road: https://www.edmunds.com/ford/escape/2020/consumer-reviews/?rating=1

Bought brand new Ford Escape 2020 with 9 miles. At 200 miles oil pressure sensor failed just as I was merging into 60 mph traffic. Car in shop a week. Got it back and at 400 miles same issue. Luckily I was able to maneuver out of the way of semi truck safely. Car has been in shop for a month and needs a new engine. Extremely dissatisfied at Ford Motor Company lame response and lame car. Doesn't deserve one star but cannot submit review without it.

Update. Car is still in the shop four months later. Parts on back order and FMC won't fairly replace or buyback. I'm extremely dissatisfied and disappointed.

Update: Car still in the shop going on 8 months and parts on back order with no ETA. Had to get attorney. Ridiculous.

And even though it sounds fake, apparently this is a known issue with COVID induced parts shortages causing some people to be without their vehicle for months: https://fordauthority.com/2020/07/f...ng-covid-19-induced-shortage-of-repair-parts/

One dealer reportedly has six Escapes currently in the shop waiting for parts, while another has spent an exorbitant amount of money providing rental vehicles for affected customers.

 

[mamboman777]

Out of the 142K vehicles affected by the recall, supposedly only 2 have caught fire as far as I know, although clearly they identified a design defect. The vehicles can continue to be used, although they recommend only charging to 90% capacity, which would make it a "soft failure" (unlike say a transmission issue that causes the vehicle to lose power on the highway and be towed which would be more serious) and the loss of use would last as long as it takes to carry out the recall (I don't know what the turnaround is on those). Those survey results for 2021 won't show up until 2022 though.

Problems like these reported for the Escape are more serious, since they cause immediate unanticipated loss of functionality of the vehicle while on the road: https://www.edmunds.com/ford/escape/2020/consumer-reviews/?rating=1

And even though it sounds fake, apparently this is a known issue with COVID induced parts shortages causing some people to be without their vehicle for months: https://fordauthority.com/2020/07/f...ng-covid-19-induced-shortage-of-repair-parts/

Different company, different motor concept.

 

[Phil37]

Yes, good choice if you don’t live in snow country like we do. I went with the XLT AWD because this is for my Wife and we get a lot of snow here in Maine, so it was a no brainer for her. But for a first time new car buyer I think you’re gonna love this truck. Good luck, let’s hope we ALL love this vehicle too

I'm going with the XL AWD version myself because while we no longer live in Maine, we still do our annual Winter trip there to visit family and friends. I miss Maine in the Summer!

 

[jtpc2021]

Hi there, 21 year old first time new car buyer here. I initially ordered a build with the Ecoboost because I was worried about reliability of the eCVT vs the Auto, as well as the long term reliability of the Hybrid systems vs the Ecoboost. Does anyone with experience of these systems have any input on the long term reliability of each engine option? I just want to be able to enjoy it for years. Not towing anything and no need for AWD so it’s strictly about long term reliability for me.

Direct Injection of the ecoboost would be more of a concern for me than a CVT’s reliability.
Direct Injection is a pain with carbon buildup. Our new honda with DI had almost $2,000 worth of warranty work done associated with it. (we sold it once out of warranty)

The hybrid 2.5 is multi port injection (which is what toyota does).

Either way, both engines are probably okay, but a hybrid engine done the way toyota and ford do it (not all hybrids are the same, but the maverick’s system operates similar to a prius and other toyota’s) will last longer in my view than a small, DI turbo engine.
Naturally aspirated engines have the advantage over turbo in the long haul (notice how toyota has avoided turbos and subaru did as well up until recently?).

 

[Darnon]

Naturally aspirated engines have the advantage over turbo in the long haul (notice how toyota has avoided turbos and subaru did as well up until recently?).

Subaru has been using forced induction for decades.

 

[FirstFord]

Americans have been sold a bill of goods. No 9ne needs AWD to handle snow unless they plan to slow through unpaired drives.
FWD with snow tires is all 99% of people in snow states need.

 

[STARCOMMTREY1]

Direct Injection of the ecoboost would be more of a concern for me than a CVT’s reliability.
Direct Injection is a pain with carbon buildup. Our new honda with DI had almost $2,000 worth of warranty work done associated with it. (we sold it once out of warranty)

The hybrid 2.5 is multi port injection (which is what toyota does).

Either way, both engines are probably okay, but a hybrid engine done the way toyota and ford do it (not all hybrids are the same, but the maverick’s system operates similar to a prius and other toyota’s) will last longer in my view than a small, DI turbo engine.
Naturally aspirated engines have the advantage over turbo in the long haul (notice how toyota has avoided turbos and subaru did as well up until recently?).

Tell that to diesel owners.

 

[Wrench77]

I would put my money on the 2.5 hybrid. It’s CVT is as simple as it gets when it comes to transmissions. The 2.5 is port injection and doesn’t have a drive belt so maintenance is at a minimum. With the hybrid your brakes last a very long time due to the regen braking. Also now that the hybrid battery is liquid cooled I see longer life with it. Not that the old air cooled ones had a short life span. The only real thing to be worried about with the hybrid would be the extra wiring and electronics but they are mostly tried and true. Ford’s Hybrid systems have been around a very long time now and have shown little issues. The only major problem I’ve heard of was a bearing in the trans which has been resolved and improved. Not that the 2.0 is a lemon I just see problems with direct injection. The 2.0t in the Focus ST did have random little issues and a few major ( head gaskets). Also the 2.0t will be solely moved by the gas engine only. So miles to hours of engine operation will be very different between the 2.0 and 2.5. Just my thoughts and experience with little to no research or evidence to back it up. I think either way you can’t go wrong. Both options have a long history and by now the bugs have been worked out (let’s hope).

Sponsored