Reliability 2.0 vs 2.5

[WasChops]

i see your points, and i will keep my ecoboost choice and stand by it for my needs/wants and cost for my plans and lifestyle. BUT you are right about the warranty and I do have built into my savings the money for an extended warranty for just in case scenarios. I dont romp on vehicles so I wont beat the hell out of the ecoboost. The only thing i disagree with you on is consumer reports. I never take their findings into account. They are often very biased towards certain models and makes. Im sure that there are issues with both powertrain and such like ANY manufacturer even toyota and everyone has to deal with them. I just dont take what consumer reports says as gospel. You may and can , I just personally shall not.

The Achilles heel of Cons Reports: They rely on members reporting back on the vehicles they own. On paper that is a pretty good idea - but for true statistical data gathering from the subject response population is tilted! Regardless of which way the tilt leans, it is simply not a good scientific model for statistical evaluation overall... so reliability become tilted toward the subjective response - which leans one way or the other. As an example a respondent purchases a BMW first time, with an extreme set of expectations that the vehicle is going to be INCREDIBLE!... but the ride is stiff, the service period ends and they have never experienced an oil change for $90 - $100... and other maintenance is extremely expensive. This taints their perspective and all of the great features which had excellent quality build return, is suddenly... "EVERYTHING is crap". I hope that explanation makes sense?

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[WasChops]

Sure I also don't need air conditioning in a house but I would never buy one without it......

AWD... I live in Florida, the periodic torrential down pour / rains make driving highways, back roads etc. extremely slick and arguably dangerous. I owned a 2005 BMW X3 AWD, which always gave me an extremely confident posture during a torrential down pour! Also, due to some very stupid driving on my part, I ended up off the shoulder and nearly down into a gully / ditch with this X3... but with a slight turn, reduced speed I was able to navigate back to the road safely without rolling over etc. And ever since owning that car (and dismissing the stupid driving incidents) I always look for and purchase AWD vehicles.... My opinion.

 

[Ronaldo]

The 2.0 ecoboost will be more stressed than a regular engine due to the turbo. The 2.5 will be less stressed because the electric motor will be helping . Also the 2.0 is direct injected only, not port injected so there will be carbon buildup on the valves. The new 5.0 has both, best of both worlds. If it were reliability choice I would pick the 2.5.

 

[Red Ryder]

AWD... I live in Florida, the periodic torrential down pour / rains make driving highways, back roads etc. extremely slick and arguably dangerous. I owned a 2005 BMW X3 AWD, which always gave me an extremely confident posture during a torrential down pour! Also, due to some very stupid driving on my part, I ended up off the shoulder and nearly down into a gully / ditch with this X3... but with a slight turn, reduced speed I was able to navigate back to the road safely without rolling over etc. And ever since owning that car (and dismissing the stupid driving incidents) I always look for and purchase AWD vehicles.... My opinion.

The BMW AWD gave you exteme confidence in marginal conditions. Is it possible that you were overconfident knowing you had AWD and that may have contributed to the "very stupid driving" that you mentioned?

Not saying that's the case in your situation, but I do know that has contributed to many winter accidents in my neck of the woods, as some non-experienced winter drivers get way too overconfident and feel invincible because they have AWD. In other words, they don't drive differently for the conditions.

 

[mamboman777]

Thanks to everyone for their replies! I will be changing my configuration to Hybrid tomorrow as I don't need AWD or the Ecoboost in reality.

One of us.... One of us.... One of us....

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

Good to hear that from a New Englander. Many here in the south somehow deem AWD necessary for winter in the off-chance we even get a decent snow.

Thats because our highway deprtments have no clue how to treat even light snow/ice and all you yankees are used to highway deprtments with a clue

 

[Red Ryder]

Thats because our highway deprtments have no clue how to treat even light snow/ice and all you yankees are used to highway deprtments with a clue

Seems like ice is what always paralyzes your area. As for yankee, I suppose you might think so even though I'm right up the road.

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

Seems like ice is what always paralyzes your area. As for yankee, I suppose you might think so even though I'm right up the road.

Side note: I used to own a portion of one of 2 gas stations in the spawling metropolis known as rico, colorado which is probably only notable for being on Lizard Head pass and being a shortcut from cortez to teluride… but only in the summer. In the winter you aint going anywhere

 

[grumpyunk]

I always took Consumer Reports ratings with a grain(?) of salt. It seemed to me their sample size was too small for a statistical analysis to have any sort of probitive value.
They may hint, but the results seem to contradict too often. Where brother/sister vehicles have the same drivetrain, accessories, build quality, etc yet have differing ratings it throws up a flag to me. The pair should be equal in their ratings... I think. e.g. a few Toyotas are the same vehicle, as are some Hondas, yet it would not be unusual for them to have slight(or big) differences in ratings. It doesn't happen often...
tom

Now returning to our normal task.

Re hybrid vs ecoboost... I think the hybrid is less stressed than the eco. However. If you maintain the eco with reasonable care, I think in the hands(feet>) of a driver that pays attention, it has the possibility of lasting just as long. Well, maybe not just, but a good long time, and I'll be gone or not driving by the time I ruin one. The ecoboost is under stress when the turbo is spun up forcing more air into the combustion chamber. I doubt I'll be there a whole lot. The valves get coated with goo because the blowby is fed back into the intake, and leaves its trace on the valve. If you can route the blowby, or clean it of its goo, you won't get the deposits. If you use the turbo judiciously, you will have less goo.
If you can route the blowby into another place, you won't have the goo.
The 2.5 doesn't work too hard as it is essentially a low compression engine, that uses a long stroke on the fire stroke, to exact more work from the combustion. It is worked less in that it does not compress as much fuel:air as the long stroke would normally imply. Combined with the torque of the electric motor at low speeds, the engine doesn't huff and puff doing its job. IMO.
tom

 

[wjg]

Americans have been sold a bill of goods. No 9ne needs AWD to handle snow unless they plan to slow through unpaired drives.
FWD with snow tires is all 99% of people in snow states need.

Agree with you First ford! I lived my whole life in Michigan. I've driven many rear wheel drive cars in the snow. My first was a positraction 68 Chevelle SS. That was a blast, donuts all day either direction. Don't drive like that any more but front wheel drive with good tires, as you stated, are all I've ever needed. It's great to have choices. If you need/want AWD, 4WD fine! But FWD is all I need and I will love ~40 mpg.

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

The Achilles heel of Cons Reports: They rely on members reporting back on the vehicles they own. On paper that is a pretty good idea - but for true statistical data gathering from the subject response population is tilted! Regardless of which way the tilt leans, it is simply not a good scientific model for statistical evaluation overall... so reliability become tilted toward the subjective response - which leans one way or the other. As an example a respondent purchases a BMW first time, with an extreme set of expectations that the vehicle is going to be INCREDIBLE!... but the ride is stiff, the service period ends and they have never experienced an oil change for $90 - $100... and other maintenance is extremely expensive. This taints their perspective and all of the great features which had excellent quality build return, is suddenly... "EVERYTHING is crap". I hope that explanation makes sense?

Kind of hard to predict reliability based on owners reports when the n number == 0

 

[JASmith]

I always took Consumer Reports ratings with a grain(?) of salt. It seemed to me their sample size was too small for a statistical analysis to have any sort of probitive value.

I think what we are witnessing here is simply a matter of confirmation bias, and you see the same thing on forums when CR publishes some good news about a particular vehicle the forum specializes in.

Someone is telling you something that you aren't predisposed to want to believe, such as a car you are excited about tempered by a poor rating, and so you're trying hard to dismiss it by making assumptions pulled out of thin air like their sample size being small based on nothing other than the fact that you hope it is.

The Ford Escape is a high sales volume vehicle, and CR indicates that for the 2020 model year they received ~329,000 survey responses, making it the largest independent survey size from a company that does not allow any manufacturer to advertise or compensate them in any way (they buy all their test vehicles, don't take ads, etc). Then can also enhance survey data by combining it when applicable, such as adding survey results for a certain powertrain's reliability across a wide variety of vehicles since manufacturers often parts share across their lineups.

The surveys are also not essay format where people can discuss subjective feelings, but about checking boxes of what broke and then showing all that breakdown in a later issue and giving different weight to different issues to determine their impact, for example:

ENGINE, MAJOR: Engine rebuild or replacement, cylinder head, head gasket, turbocharger or supercharger, timing chain or belt.
ENGINE, MINOR: Accessory belts and pulleys, engine computer, engine mounts, engine knock or ping, difficult to fill up gas tank, fuel leaks, oil leaks.

ENGINE COOLING: Radiator, cooling fan, water pump, thermostat, antifreeze leaks, overheating.
TRANSMISSION, MAJOR: Transmission rebuild or replacement, torque converter, premature clutch replacement.
TRANSMISSION, MINOR: Gear selector and linkage, transmission computer, transmission sensor or solenoid, clutch adjustment, rough shifting, slipping transmission, leaks.
DRIVE SYSTEM: Driveshaft or axle, CV joint, differential, transfer case, four-wheel-drive/all-wheel-drive components, driveline vibration, electrical failure, traction control, electronic stability control (ESC).
FUEL SYSTEM/EMISSIONS: Sensors (O2 or oxygen sensor), emission-control devices (includes EGR), fuel-injection system, fuel gauge/sender, fuel pump.
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM: Alternator, starter, hybrid/electric battery replacement, hybrid/electric battery related systems, regular battery, battery cables, engine harness, coil, ignition switch, electronic ignition, spark plugs and wires failure.
CLIMATE SYSTEM: A/C compressor, blower (fan) motor, condenser, evaporator, heater system, automatic climate system, electrical failure, refrigerant leakage.
SUSPENSION/STEERING: Shocks or struts, ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings, alignment, steering linkage (includes rack and pinion), power steering (pumps and hoses, leaks), wheel balance, springs or torsion bars, bushings, electronic or air suspension.
BRAKES: Antilock system (ABS), parking brake, master cylinder, calipers, rotors, pulsation or vibration, squeaking, brake failure, premature wear.
EXHAUST: Muffler, pipes, catalytic converter, exhaust manifold, heat shields, leaks.
PAINT/TRIM: Paint (fading, chalking, peeling or cracking), loose interior or exterior trim or moldings, rust.
BODY INTEGRITY (Noises/leaks): Squeaks, rattles, wind noises, seals, and/or weather stripping, air and water leaks.
BODY HARDWARE: Windows, locks and latches, doors or sliding doors, tailgate, trunk or hatch, mirrors, seat controls (power or manual), seat belts, sunroof, convertible top, glass defect.
POWER EQUIPMENT AND ACCESSORIES: Cruise control, clock, warning lights, body control module, keyless entry, wiper motor or washer, tire pressure monitor, interior or exterior lights, horn, gauges, 12V power plug, USB port, alarm or security system, remote engine start, heated or cooled seats, heated steering wheel.
IN-CAR ELECTRONICS: CD player, rear entertainment system (rear screen or DVD player), radio, speakers, in-dash GPS, display screen freezes or goes blank, phone pairing (e.g. Bluetooth), voice control commands, steering wheel controls, portable music device interface (e.g., iPod/MP3 player), backup or other camera/sensors, Android Auto/Apple CarPlay, infotainment hardware replacement and software fixes.
Are All Problems Considered Equally Serious?
Engine major, engine cooling, transmission major, and drive system problems are more likely to take a car out of service and to be more expensive to repair than the other problem areas. Consequently, we weight these areas more heavily in our calculations of model year Overall Reliability Verdict. Problems such as broken trim and in-car electronics have a much smaller weight. Problems in any area can be an expense and a bother, though, so we report them all in the Reliability History charts.

So this is not a "I didn't like that BMW oil changes were more expensive" when determining reliability. That the suspension was too stiff however would be a complaint that is worthy of noting, and overall satisfaction level or buyers remorse is also important because if ten thousand people answering the survey mostly had buyer's remorse about the vehicle in question, chances are you will too.

I don't work for CR, but I can't think of any other resource that is as trustworthy in their business model. JD Powers for example? Their customers are literally the manufacturers, and they sell their rating accordingly. Heck, GM seemed to pretty much brag about the fact that they paid JD Powers to give all their vehicles awards:

 

[JASmith]

That's key; winter tires in addition to AWD, not instead.

Its a bit off topic when it comes to reliability, but there was a great video I watched a little while back with one of those auto channels comparing FWD with all seasons, AWD with all seasons, FWD with winter tires, and AWD with winter tires on the same vehicle. What seemed to surprise a lot of people was that winter tires had a MUCH bigger impact than AWD, particularly in all the safety related tests such as the emergency swerve and the braking test for what should be obvious reasons.

So if you are on a limited budget and had to pick between a second set of wheels/tires for winter on FWD and year round all seasons on AWD, it might not be intuitive, but the the FWD option would drastically outperform the AWD in all the ways that really matter. And, to no one's surprise, the AWD with a set of winter wheels/tires to swap on is the best albeit most expensive option. A lot of people do end up picking one or the other though to keep costs down.

 

[oljackfrost]

I think what we are witnessing here is simply a matter of confirmation bias, and you see the same thing on forums when CR publishes some good news about a particular vehicle the forum specializes in.

Someone is telling you something that you aren't predisposed to want to believe, such as a car you are excited about tempered by a poor rating, and so you're trying hard to dismiss it by making assumptions pulled out of thin air like their sample size being small based on nothing other than the fact that you hope it is.

The Ford Escape is a high sales volume vehicle, and CR indicates that for the 2020 model year they received ~329,000 survey responses, making it the largest independent survey size from a company that does not allow any manufacturer to advertise or compensate them in any way (they buy all their test vehicles, don't take ads, etc). Then can also enhance survey data by combining it when applicable, such as adding survey results for a certain powertrain's reliability across a wide variety of vehicles since manufacturers often parts share across their lineups.

The surveys are also not essay format where people can discuss subjective feelings, but about checking boxes of what broke and then showing all that breakdown in a later issue and giving different weight to different issues to determine their impact, for example:

So this is not a "I didn't like that BMW oil changes were more expensive" when determining reliability. That the suspension was too stiff however would be a complaint that is worthy of noting, and overall satisfaction level or buyers remorse is also important because if ten thousand people answering the survey mostly had buyer's remorse about the vehicle in question, chances are you will too.

I don't work for CR, but I can't think of any other resource that is as trustworthy in their business model. JD Powers for example? Their customers are literally the manufacturers, and they sell their rating accordingly. Heck, GM seemed to pretty much brag about the fact that they paid JD Powers to give all their vehicles awards:

They didn’t get 329,000 responses on the 2020 Escape. We have no way of knowing how many responses CR gets on an individual vehicle. A small sample can widely skew survey results.

 

[Rkbrumbelow]

They didn’t get 329,000 responses on the 2020 Escape. We have no way of knowing how many responses CR gets on an individual vehicle. A small sample can widely skew survey results.

Anything over 30 works with statistics, anything less than 30 is considered small n. Obviously the greater the sample size in relation to the cadre makes the error number reduce, but there are quite few built in errors in surveys like these.

my problem with CR is claiming a reliability rating for a vehicle which literally no one owns other than the manufacturer, and the data on them is as demonstrators.

you can predict a bit on similar component reliability but as anyone who has ever hand tuned anything knows, sometimes parts just work better together and sometimes not.

I have seen firearms gain a minute of accuracy because of a 1/4 inch of barrel added or subtracted. I have seen the harmonics completely fall out of a waterjet running at 200k psi because of a bend in the supply line. And I have seen things tear themselves apart because they happen to resonate at frequencies that reinforced one another.

so it’s a prediction, but not even a survey.

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