Pay-per-mile vs Gas Tax

[rlhdweman]

The last few years you have been hearing various gov't entities complain they are losing revenue because of all the ev/hybrids sales, REALLY, what about the 60% of americans who are driving fuel size 4 door 4 wheel drive trucks that use double the fuel, they are getting more than enough in gas tax IMO, they just need to use it wisely.

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[pigsareus]

I'm a big fan of eliminating the gasoline tax and replacing it with either a flat registration "road use" tax, or a mileage tax. I prefer the flat tax because it's much simpler for everyone.

We all pay some kind of infrastructure tax on electricity. Meaning if we want the benefits of a grid connection, we have to pay our part to maintain it. Even if we don't consume a single kWh because we have solar. It seems fair to me.

gas tax IS a road use tax - In terms of simplicity I'd rather there be a little less simplicity and a little more fairness - I drive 8k miles a year in my 45 mpg mav - I don't want to be paying the same tax that someone driving 30K miles a year does and no I don't want to pay what the 'average' - let's say 12k a mile person does. I bought my vehicle for the economics of it - I'm not interested in now having so subsidize others driving situation. Oh, and with 45mpg I am doing my share to save the planet, unlike those that are getting 12MPG - am I also supposed to be subsidizing their extra pollutants. It's fine the way it is - with the exception that they need to start levying the same taxes on EV 'fuel' that we pay per gallon in gas - should be easily done either at registration time or by software in the EVs and the charging station - not too tough to have that happen - ID the vehicle (probably already does) and apply the taxes to the total.

 

[surfstar]

My recent renewal fee was $172.00.

Annual? That's cheap.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

As a couple folks have noted, it will not replace the current gas tax, but will add to it.

Currently WA State has the 4th largest gas tax in the nation, at almost $0.53/Gallon.

Note that awhile back WA added $75 to car tab renewal fees for hybrid vehicles to go towards creating additional charging stations for electric cars. So, as a Maverick hybrid owner I am paying to support electric car charging stations!!! My recent renewal fee was $172.00.

So you are paying $75 for fueling point availability but NOTHING for all the wear and tear on the roads you are expecting someone else to pay for. Maybe a tax based on TIRE MILES driven for your vin # configuration (weight and tires) in addition to your power availability tax?

 

[Milous]

...but NOTHING for all the wear and tear on the roads you are expecting someone else to pay for.

What do you mean I am paying "NOTHING" for "road wear and tear"?? I am paying $0.53/Gallon tax every time I fill up (= HUNDREDS of $$ per year).

 

[Hot Runr Guy]

Annual? That's cheap.

My IL renewal for a EB was $151.

HRG

 

[MakinDoForNow]

It's a crock isn't it? Plenty of Hondas and Toyotas have been getting 35+ MPG ICE for decades yet nobody suggested a tax on mileage, as a matter of fact we've had 'save the planet - buy econocars' for decades. Now that we have much better overall better MPGs they want to jack up the fees and change the game. That always happens - back when they promoted this they never mentioned oh hey if we do get a lot of high MPG cars we'll likely be increasing taxes on them. In that they all know the estimated MPG on all vehicles they can just slap additional taxes on any that get above some threshold and not just those that are hybrids. This is where we need to absolutely inundate those that are proposing that kind of hybrid discrimination and have them explain why they are only isolating hybrids in this madness.

In addition municipality water departments that have imposed restrictions on usage are having to raise $$/gallon rates to break even = "Who woulda THUNK it!"!!!

 

[Milous]

Annual? That's cheap.

I agree, somewhat. No too many years ago it was locked in at $40.00/Year, now it has quadrupled, for my Maverick anyway. The wife's newer Honda was only $80 this year.

 

[zen_]

Annual? That's cheap.

Definitely. Nebraska's motor vehicle taxes are crazy, on top of local wheel taxes + a few other small taxes. If I own my Maverick for 10 years, I'll have the pleasure of paying an additional $2,600 in registration taxes, on top of the initial $2,100 in sales tax. $550 registration the first year total if I remember.

It was actually the biggest mental hurdle giving up my 10 year old Prius since that also sipped fuel and cost almost nothing to register, but I guess it makes sense to shake down anyone who buys a new vehicle for every dollar possible.

 

[OleFordGuy]

What do you mean I am paying "NOTHING" for "road wear and tear"?? I am paying $0.53/Gallon tax every time I fill up (= HUNDREDS of $$ per year).

agree with clarification, but i think the point is the miles driven on battery or whatever propulsion beside gas would not be paid for.

 

[dochawk]

Washington should get started with shoring up the budget by pulling people over for expired tabs/registration.

In Las Vegas, you get pulled over quickly for expired registration.

No plates, however, is another matter!


But years ago, when we recovered my cougar, we went through a series of temporary registrations as details got dealt with.

And then, with my day old baby and mother in the car, we got pulled over.

I handed him the rather thick stack.

"Sir, these expired at midnight."


He actually gave me the ticket!

I took it to the dmv, and the gal at the counter was going to backdate the new ten day for me, but my mother arrived with the last paper I needed. (In hindsight, her driving an unfamiliar vehicle was, well, shocking and bizarre!). so she gave me the regular registration (which couldn't backdate0.

I took it in, planning on going to the traffic commissioner, who I knew would angrily pencil-whip it into oblivion--and found out that it was something like $10 if I just paid it at the counter. And it wasn't worth leaving my fledgling practice for an hour over that much (and missing potential cases), so I just paid itl

DMV should simply auto bill expired plates, and if you no longer have vehicle, contest it after receive bill.

Many (most? all?) states use a bill of sale that the buyer signs. The seller submitting to the dmv ends his liability for the car.

And our out of state "bedroom community" neighbors who use our roads prolifically are not paying the fee.

This is why toll roads on the interstate peeve me. They're really a net transfer from states with open highways, when their payers pass through, to the jurisdictions with toll roads, who freely use the other states' highways.

and driving off bc like 1/3 don’t have insurance literally live consequence free her.

2/3 insured? Wow; paradise!


on my daily driver, uninsured motorist (for bodily injury) has again passed my own liability premium!

$550 registration the first year total if I remember.

kwitchyerbellyachin!

it says $686 estimated for my new 25 maverick!

(in fairness, no income tax [banned by our constitution], and property tax is 2/3 of 1%, give or take, limited to 3% annual increase on owner occupied. But we do have over 8% sales tax. [OK, we also have nice people that fly in to pay most of our taxes. I make a point of thanking them when I meet them at the airport! ])

 

[zen_]

kwitchyerbellyachin!

it says $686 estimated for my new 25 maverick!

(in fairness, no income tax [banned by our constitution], and property tax is 2/3 of 1%, give or take, limited to 3% annual increase on owner occupied. But we do have over 8% sales tax. [OK, we also have nice people that fly in to pay most of our taxes. I make a point of thanking them when I meet them at the airport! ])

We have it all in Nebraska. Terrible weather, no attractions, high property taxes, high vehicle taxes, income taxes, sales taxes, a delightful full spectrum of other taxes for existing, and home insurance rates equal to Florida. Frankly I amazed after reading about this pay per mile scheme that we have not already been hit with that too.

 

[dochawk]

Terrible weather, no attractions, high property taxes, high vehicle taxes, income taxes, sales taxes, a delightful full spectrum of other taxes for existing, and home insurance rates equal to Florida

but you have all that corn that people can't eat to make up for it!

 

[Jeff D.]

When I was an Owner Operator truck driver, I had to pay a Heavy Highway Use Tax each year. This was in addition to the taxes collected at the pump and registration.

It was calculated on your maximum gross weight. Mine was 80k lbs. The last year I was in operation was 2008 and at that time it was $550/year.

I felt it was fair as class 8 trucks do more damage to the highways than autos.

It was easy to calculate as the GVWR is set by the vehicle manufacturer. Perhaps this type tax could part of the path forward. I think basing it on mileage could be problematic in implementing, although it does seem fair, to me at least.

 

[slashsnake]

When I was an Owner Operator truck driver, I had to pay a Heavy Highway Use Tax each year. This was in addition to the taxes collected at the pump and registration.

It was calculated on your maximum gross weight. Mine was 80k lbs. The last year I was in operation was 2008 and at that time it was $550/year.

I felt it was fair as class 8 trucks do more damage to the highways than autos.

It was easy to calculate as the GVWR is set by the vehicle manufacturer. Perhaps this type tax could part of the path forward. I think basing it on mileage could be problematic in implementing, although it does seem fair, to me at least.

That is the big one. 90%+ of vehicle caused road wear is coming from big rigs/heavy duty vehicles. It's exponential. Think of it like your couch. Your 40lb dog can lay on that couch 100 times and not have anywhere near the effect of your 400lb friend sitting on it once for the Superbowl. It's a 4th power calculation for road wear. Basically, a compact vs. a full-size pickup, you are doubling the weight, but your impact in the pickup on road wear is 16 times as much when considering road wear. That's the impact of doubling. Now jump from 4200lbs for a Tesla Model Y to an 80k lb big rig and you can see we are talking a completely different level here.

Cars. SUV's light duty trucks and motorcycles aren't causing wear and tear on roads. If it was everyone paying their "fair share" based on the damage they cause, EV's and light vehicles wouldn't be paying hardly anything. But I'm fine with paying that amount at the pump for it because life isn't meant to be fair. If you put it where it belongs, those prices go right to the customer anyways, the price jump gets tacked on your grocery bill or your price at the hardware store. I'm fine as a vehicle owner paying more than my fair share vs. those who can't afford a car.

So, the mileage for cars rings a bit hollow for me. It's kind of like charging couch repair money for how many times those two 50lb dogs sit on your couch when your 400lb buddy comes over every week to watch the games on Sundays. If one dog sits on it 40 times and the other 80 times... who cares, both of their costs for the damage they cause to the structure of the couch are negligible. Just charge both 25% and be done with it if you want them to pay half. But if you are going to charge one 10% of the cost to repair the couch, charging the 2nd one 40% is a bit pointless to me if both are doing next to no damage.

So, I guess I could care less about the mileage and the work/costs associated with that. Jim driving 20k miles in his Model 3 and Jan driving 5k miles in her Maverick aren't causing massive differences in road wear when John is driving his big rig once a week on his route on that road. If passenger vehicles cause 5% of road damage and pay 50% of the bill, fine. But just make it a flat payout. But my opinion is don't make Jim pay 40% more of the road costs for his driving volume causing 4% more damage than Jan.

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