Ford Motorcraft AGM Battery?

[HeyBales]

Just the ignition is on so the battery has a load on it. When the ICE runs it goes up to over 15v. I think if I tested the battery by itself it would be over 12v. That's why I asked how they test the battery.

That's the idea - Accessory position will display the battery voltage - 11.x.

On, or Running position, will display the charging voltage - 14.x to 15.x
Has nothing to do with the ICE running, as power is supplied from HVB.

So when you said key On for the one picture - it should have been reading 14.x or above.
But your key was actually in Acc to get that reading.
Unless!!
You had drained the HVB down to 30% and it stopped providing juice.
You would have received a dash warning and electronics would have been turned off too.

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[rclee]

Nice long time span!

Curious what your average daily drive time is like, since that's a good amount of miles potentially?

I am an IT person and I support 3 medical practices surrounding the Dayton area. I average about 35-40 miles a day. Some days only 20 and occasionally I will do 80 miles in a day.

 

[HeyBales]

I am an IT person and I support 3 medical practices surrounding the Dayton area. I average about 35-40 miles a day. Some days only 20 and occasionally I will do 80 miles in a day.

Since the charging algorithm is purely by time - how long does that work out to since city/hwy or rush hour could make a big difference?

Thanks.
Normally the float charge is reached after 10-15 min, so anything past that is painfully slow.

 

[johnDeere]

Since the charging algorithm is purely by time - how long does that work out to since city/hwy or rush hour could make a big difference?

Thanks.
Normally the float charge is reached after 10-15 min, so anything past that is painfully slow.

I notice floating voltage happens when my SOC get above 90%.
if my SOC is under 90%, charging voltage (15.1) volts could be for hour.

I can, let’s say fool the system, if I turn on the cabin fan above 5, the system changes to charging voltage if the SOC Is above 90%

UPDATE: The term of using the word floating voltage.
The term of floating voltage stated is incorrect.
What I am seeing when my SOC get above 90% is more of standing voltage of 12.8 volts.
Floating voltage is 13.2 volts.


23 Mav hybrid 20 k miles
Flooded battery.

 

[Master Blaster]

I notice floating voltage happens when my SOC get above 90%.
if my SOC is under 90%, charging voltage (15.1) volts could be for hour.

I can, let’s say fool the system, if I turn on the cabin fan above 5, the system changes to charging voltage if the SOC Is above 90%

23 Mav hybrid 20 k miles
Flooded battery.

Given that Ford's idea of 100% is really 80%, that 1/2 tackle charge starts somewhere around 60% and that you have the same year hybrid as me, I'm curious how you're getting to a 90% charge when the BMS make sure that it never gets above 80% even after a very long drive. How are you measuring?

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

I notice floating voltage happens when my SOC get above 90%.
if my SOC is under 90%, charging voltage (15.1) volts could be for hour.

I can, let’s say fool the system, if I turn on the cabin fan above 5, the system changes to charging voltage if the SOC Is above 90%

23 Mav hybrid 20 k miles
Flooded battery.

I have a 23 Mav hybrid XLT 25 k miles
Original Flooded battery.
I wonder if the way I have my charger hooked up makes a difference. I have my charger hooked up directly to the battery.
It's been hooked up like this now going on 2 years.
Do I get a better charge, without the possible resistance of hooking it up under the hood

The two times that I've had to charge my battery, was while telemetrics fuse 11/12 was installed.

 

[HeyBales]

I have a 23 Mav hybrid XLT 25 k miles
Original Flooded battery.
I wonder if the way I have my charger hooked up makes a difference. I have my charger hooked up directly to the battery.
It's been hooked up like this now going on 2 years.
Do I get a better charge, without the possible resistance of hooking it up under the hood

The two times that I've had to charge my battery, was while telemetrics fuse 11/12 was installed.

I'm sure the Noco charger is reading resistance as part of it's decision for the desulf routine - you may be getting a truer desulf because it sees just what the battery has for resistance without the shunt in there. Probably a good thing!

 

[johnDeere]

Given that Ford's idea of 100% is really 80%, that 1/2 tackle charge starts somewhere around 60% and that you have the same year hybrid as me, I'm curious how you're getting to a 90% charge when the BMS make sure that it never gets above 80% even after a very long drive. How are you measuring?

Good questions.
I am measuring the volts, amps, and SOC with my "car scanner" app.
I am also verifying the volts and amps with my WonVon battery monitor.
I should have put in my post that when my SOC get above 90% it changes to "floating" voltage, but my "floating" voltage instead of 13.X volts for so called "floating" voltage is more like 12.8V.
So nothing is going into the battery, it more like coming out until my battery get to 12.8 volts.
As to your question about how am I able to do this.
I have changed the setting with forscan, But I have read here, that is does not make a difference. (SOC setting or type of battery)
That settings is hard coded in the program and does not use the adjustable settings that forscan can show.
When my SOC reaches above 90%, and the voltage changes from 15.1 volts to 12.8, I turn on the cabin fan higher than 5 and the system will start charging voltage to 14.8- 15.1 volts.

Why I am not using a AGM battery, and testing a deep cycle flooded battery is that there is something wrong with the charging scheme for the battery in the hybrid.
AGM batteries do not liked to be over charged, 15.1 volts with a SOC above 90% is in the range of over charging.
The floating charge is too low, (12.8), that's more of resting or standing voltage.
So far I have not seen a "floating" voltage of 13.2 volts yet.

Now that is what I am seeing on MY maverick hybrid, it will probability be different on your hybrid.

 

[johnDeere]

I have a 23 Mav hybrid XLT 25 k miles
Original Flooded battery.
I wonder if the way I have my charger hooked up makes a difference. I have my charger hooked up directly to the battery.
It's been hooked up like this now going on 2 years.
Do I get a better charge, without the possible resistance of hooking it up under the hood

The two times that I've had to charge my battery, was while telemetrics fuse 11/12 was installed.

Great post,
How often do you plug in your hybrid?
From what its been showing on the forum, connecting to the battery instead of connecting to the ports under the hood removes the system of seeing you charging the battery, and may give the system a false reading for soc.
But I also read when the truck is off the system doesn't keep track of current going in if you use the ports under the hood.
So far I have not done that test yet.
As for getting a better charge this way, i doubt it, the voltage drop is negotiable since your current may be about 1-2 amps.
Hey if this works for you, go for it.

 

[Timothyd]

Given that Ford's idea of 100% is really 80%, that 1/2 tackle charge starts somewhere around 60% and that you have the same year hybrid as me, I'm curious how you're getting to a 90% charge when the BMS make sure that it never gets above 80% even after a very long drive. How are you measuring?

How did humanity ever make it this far without all these controls and regulations?
I freak out now when there's a small change to things but I don't generally don't know what to do about it. I have an idea because I've been fixing cars/motorcycles/machines for a long time but it's presently a different ball game. And, I'm not alone. The dealer and the local repair shops don't always have a clear idea either. For three years now my Maverick has been working flawlessly even in below zero weather so I'm feeling better but what happens but there's always going to be a little doubt. Of course this isn't just our Mavericks, it's everything. This morning my Kurig is acting up, and there's no digging in to it. Kinda frustrated with our 'throw away society. Ah well, there's my rant for the week.

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

Great post,
How often do you plug in your hybrid?
From what its been showing on the forum, connecting to the battery instead of connecting to the ports under the hood removes the system of seeing you charging the battery, and may give the system a false reading for soc.
But I also read when the truck is off the system doesn't keep track of current going in if you use the ports under the hood.
So far I have not done that test yet.
As for getting a better charge this way, i doubt it, the voltage drop is negotiable since your current may be about 1-2 amps.
Hey if this works for you, go for it.

John,
Direct answer to your question.
How often do you plug in your hybrid?'
I have only plugged / charged it twice, in a year's time.
Both times was when the interior lights would not come on. Both times are while the telemetrics fuse 11/12 was installed.
DM Sent with link to my previous post that has updates. Including this morning.

 

[HeyBales]

The simple BMS system is tracking cumulative charge when Ignition is ON.
That's the only tracking for charging.
Would be interesting if you could charge with system ON while it's doing it's own charging from the HVB also (it would probably stop though once it saw charge going in). Don't most chargers state turn vehicle off, for a reason? Some even say remove from vehicle.
BMS sees nothing of external charging if it's OFF.

Which makes sense actually.

Because it also tracks all the discharging times - Engine off, Engine on, Sleep mode.
I've not found any others looking at all the BCM PIDs.

It's attempting to match those up - charge as much as it discharges.
If it logged external charging - which we do because it is doing a poor job with matching those up (or old battery) - then it would just back off it's normal charging amounts to get it matched again.
Which would then require more external charging. Vicious loop there.

@johnDeere - I'm wondering if you are getting something very different in your system readings, not because of Forscan changes, but because you have 2 deep cycle batteries attached. Right?
At least 1.
Be interesting to see what the BMS Relearn thinks of your battery, what Ah it's assigning, and max.
Actually proving the system seems to have some ability is what your's does when it thinks the battery is topped off, only seen that 3-4 times, after recharging, and a new battery.
12.8 V, and that's when I've actually seen discharge from battery, not charging.
That's fits the tracker Cumulative Discharge Engine On or Off.

 

[johnDeere]

Thanks for your input Mike.
As of right now, I am testing only one group 27 flooded deep cycle battery in the truck.
The other battery, (original) is being used to power the wonvon Bluetooth battery monitor, and Bluetooth monitor on that battery.
I think you’re correct in that it doesn’t matter where you connect external charging to, since I doubt that it records current through the BMS system.
It would need power to power up the BMS controller, and it’s not getting power unless the key is on.
I was able to change the battery amp hour with forscan to 60 amp hour, while mine is 80, so don’t what it’s thinks of it.

But from what I read it may not matter to what any of those battery values are set to since it may be hard coded in the software.

You are correct, it may think the battery is topped off but change to floating charge of 13.2 and not 12.8v
And then I can fool the system by turning the cabin fan past 5.
No other electric loads will do the same thing.
That’s why I am not ready to test a AGM battery.
15.1 volts and 2-3 amps at 91% SOC could be hard on a AGM.

 

[johnDeere]

I guess we can comment on BMS, battery type, battery size, plug in chargers, SOC until were blue in the face, but the main problem and the reason for this thread is that what I am seeing is this battery drain when the key is turned off.
What is still on when we turn off the key and why.
Its not the fuse 11, I have it pulled.
Its not auto updates, I have it turned off,.
is it a current draw through the ACCM, I have that fuse pulled too.
I have power point time out set from (factory) of 4500 to 60 seconds.
I just checked the 120V outlet behind the seat, and when I turn off the truck, it powers down, with no delay.

Its just hard to recover this current drain when you only drive for 15 minutes per key on-off cycle.

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