Effect on full EV Maverick possibilities..........??

[The Real Maverick]

You can't "fill up" quickly without shelling out essentially the same amount as an ICE or Hybrid vehicle and it's still slower to do. You have to park in certain areas to do it. Your trip length and locations are limited due to charging station availability and range. If power goes out, you are screwed. The fossil fuel infrastructure might not be the most stable and people not the most prepared if that fail either, but there is still a massive amount more support for the average person in terms of preparation than for EV's - i.e. fuel cans vs. needing solar panels which again, provide no use in certain scenarios.

If the power is out, everyone is equally screwed.

When is the last time you pumped gas by hand?

While few do it, you CAN charge an EV with solar. When is the last time you generated gasoline via solar?

It takes me under 1 minute to recharge a Bolt EV. 20 seconds to plug it in, 20 seconds to unplug it. I do useful stuff in the middle. Work. Play. Eat. Sleep. Occasionally shop. I'd be surprised if you didn't do these things also. And I don't get gasoline smell on my hands (or my lungs).

There are more EV charging locations than gasoline filling stations. Some are faster than others. And I'm starting to find them in the weirdest places. National Parks. Alaska Highway. Middle of the Mohave Desert. Hotels, motels, resorts. High School parking lots. Ya know. Places people drive to. Weird.

USA is adding 100,000 charging locations per year over the next 5 years. Horrible to think you may be 10 miles from a charging location in 2030. Terrible.

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[Traegorn]

I listed the needs of many. You chose to ignore them for one statement. Missed the Forrest by about 100 miles there.

Nah. You talked about your needs and assumed you represented the many.

 

[K5Blazer]

Y'know, people keep saying there's less demand, but EV sales have been consistently increasing. The only real reason they're leveling off is because they're just still so expensive which is pricing a lot of people out of the market.

Like, you can't buy an EV for the price of a Maverick. That's what's slowing them down.

Ford just halted all shipments of the Lightning, the dealers can’t sell them.
My local dealer has over 25 Mach-E’s on the lot.

Fords in big trouble. Teslas not doing well either.
Rivian? Still losing 30K on every vehicle they sell. They will soon be history.

The EV market is dying.

Some of you will just keep drinking the Kool-Aid though.

I was right all along;
An EV Maverick? NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

 

[Traegorn]

Ford just halted all shipments of the Lightning, the dealers can’t sell them.
My local dealer has over 25 Mach-E’s on the lot.

Ford having problems selling the Lightning is not the entire market. Although, y'know, if you actually look at the sales numbers... Lighting and Mach E sales are up. Ford overproducing more than demand does not mean the demand hasn't gone up, it just means Ford overestimated it. Those are not the same thing.

You can try to deny it, but change is coming either way.

 

[NextTruck]

Ford just halted all shipments of the Lightning, the dealers can’t sell them.
My local dealer has over 25 Mach-E’s on the lot.

Fords in big trouble. Teslas not doing well either.
Rivian? Still losing 30K on every vehicle they sell. They will soon be history.

The EV market is dying.

Some of you will just keep drinking the Kool-Aid though.

I was right all along;
An EV Maverick? NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

Tesla does ok only because they sell carbon credits- silly paper feel good nonsense for the elites.

 

[darkrystalR2]

I was hoping to see an EV Mav by the time my 2007 SporTrac gives it up. when I heard Ford was delaying EV rollouts I went ahead and put in a reservation for an Rivian R2. My other choice would be an R1T. I have 250k miles on my Sporty, and rusting, so tick-tock.

 

[Gonzo chris]

That $62k loss per vehicle did include infrastructure and development on vehicle only hitting their 3rd model year.

Yes, it is an accounting trick. If you invest billions on a factory when one truck rolls off the line you could say. Well we lost billions of dollars selling that truck but of course obviously the factory is going to be there a while making lots of vehicles

 

[Gonzo chris]

Demand for EVS has not dried up. What has happened is they were predicting approximately 33% increase in EV sales this year and it's now down to a 15% increase. That's like saying I wanted to lose 33 lb but I only lost 15 so therefore I gained 18 lb. ....lol. What is happening with the big three, should I say the somewhat big two? Is that there was a lot of investment involved in transitioning to EVs or even making them a decent size of their portfolio and Wall Street in its infinite wisdom is only looking towards the next quarter. So yes, scaling back too much will mean either another bailout in 15 years or no more us Auto industry..
It really has been a big drop for Tesla specifically not EVS generally, which is okay with me cuz I never thought they were well made to begin with, I think their fans are largely equivalent to 1980s. BMW yuppies.
As for those who say they do not work well enough for most people, I would say they work well enough for the vast majority of the population, but not for everybody. Many EVS can now be filled up or charged in less than 20 minutes. For most people who live in the suburbs or exurbs and can charge at home, there is no issue unless they take regular long road trips to places without chargers. Think about it. If you drive 350 mi do you really not want to stop for 20 minutes and grab a bite? Usually? 99% of charging for people like me would be at home. I would plug it in once a week or so and unplug it in the morning. The real issue is availability of functional chargers. If you tow something or you travel 600 mi at a clip regularly then it definitely is not for you.

 

[Gonzo chris]

Tesla does ok only because they sell carbon credits- silly paper feel good nonsense for the elites.

I don't think Tesla sells carbon credits to elites as you say, I know I'm aware of the blue collar chip on the shoulder and I do work a blue collar job myself, but they sell credits to car manufacturers who don't meet government standards. Carbon credits sold to elites are a different thing all together.

 

[Gonzo chris]

They are leveling off because the cost to maintain them is still outrageous and has arguably gotten worse even due to "shortages". There are too many scenarios where they do not perform well enough to justify the majority of people buying them. It's not entirely about cost though - it's the fact that you have to plan everything around them.

You can't "fill up" quickly without shelling out essentially the same amount as an ICE or Hybrid vehicle and it's still slower to do. You have to park in certain areas to do it. Your trip length and locations are limited due to charging station availability and range. If power goes out, you are screwed. The fossil fuel infrastructure might not be the most stable and people not the most prepared if that fail either, but there is still a massive amount more support for the average person in terms of preparation than for EV's - i.e. fuel cans vs. needing solar panels which again, provide no use in certain scenarios.

Most EV owners either live in heavily populated areas and/or have a secondary vehicle and use EV's for shorter trips. Studies have shown this for years now. The whole point was EV's were supposed to be cheaper and hopefully get better in terms of range... very little progress has been made in the range category, or infrastructure and cost has increased.

Current incentives that manufacturers are offering are lower than average interest rates and "dropping" costs (at least on the sticker). But when that vehicle is $50k+ OTD already, where are you really saving any money? They are status vehicles and a fashion statement more than anything else, but also the market (vehicles cost and financing) is such a disaster that people are taking lower interest rates over anything else. So naturally the marketing of "get this cheaper" draws people to it when in reality, like you said, it isn't actually any cheaper at all.

I think there will continue to be some increase in sales as there always have been, even during COVID, but it doesn't represent most people transitioning to EVs. It's mostly people taking on or replacing secondary vehicles that they don't really need to begin with.

I don't know if you live in Montana, but that would explain a lot regarding the needs of many, but the vast majority of Americans either live in cities, which really aren't that great for EVS because a lot of people don't have a place to charge them, or they live in the suburbs. If you own your own home with a garage or even a driveway, it's not an issue. Unless you take very long road trips regularly. Then I agree with you. I just disagree with How many they work for or don't. As for price a lot of them are well below 50 Grand now. I don't like Teslas but a model y base model with rwd is $37,000. There are plenty of other deals even cheaper than that with the tax credit. If you charge it home, they are a lot cheaper depending on your electricity rates. Obviously. If you had solar you can largely drive for free. I ran the numbers when I was looking at a couple EVs and with my electricity rate and charging at home 99% of the time for every every $100 I spend on gas right now I would spend approximately $25 on electricity. If most of your charging is at public chargers while on the road then you are not going to save much money if any.
As for infrastructure, there has been a lot of improvements. Again. I'm not a Tesla fan, but if you look at their charging Network and now you realize that GM, Ford and most other major manufacturers are adopting that standard in the United States There are a lot of charging options, you can still use electrify America as well. A lot of the companies aren't bringing out that charger built in until 2025 or later and I think a lot of EV V potential buyers are waiting until then

 

[Gonzo chris]

Ford just halted all shipments of the Lightning, the dealers can’t sell them.
My local dealer has over 25 Mach-E’s on the lot.

Fords in big trouble. Teslas not doing well either.
Rivian? Still losing 30K on every vehicle they sell. They will soon be history.

The EV market is dying.

Some of you will just keep drinking the Kool-Aid though.

I was right all along;
An EV Maverick? NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

Yes good old sticking the head in the sand. The market is not dying. The market is actually more healthy. Sales of EVS are still increasing. The reason the lightning can't sell is two reasons. Number one. You have a lot of old truck guys who wouldn't be caught dead in that that Greenpeace machine, I actually just saw a lightning by the way towing a small trailer, but the other reason it's dying is because it's not that great of a vehicle. No offense to Ford, I like the big frunk and all that, But it's just not that competitive. Look at the range of the new Chevy Silverado coming out. It's over 400 mi. What do you get in the lightning 250? Basically? It's like any new tech. It changes rapidly. That's another reason people are holding out because every year they're coming out with vehicles that charge faster and have more range. You don't get that with gas vehicles anymore the low-hanging fruit has been plucked. Anyway, full size trucks aren't the best use for EVS . Sound like a Maverick would be good but the aerodynamics on the lightning suck and if you tow something which a lot of people do in a truck it's not good for that. But for 95% of people's regular daily commute, they're just fine

 

[Montana]

I don't know if you live in Montana, but that would explain a lot regarding the needs of many, but the vast majority of Americans either live in cities, which really aren't that great for EVS because a lot of people don't have a place to charge them, or they live in the suburbs. If you own your own home with a garage or even a driveway, it's not an issue. Unless you take very long road trips regularly. Then I agree with you. I just disagree with How many they work for or don't. As for price a lot of them are well below 50 Grand now. I don't like Teslas but a model y base model with rwd is $37,000. There are plenty of other deals even cheaper than that with the tax credit. If you charge it home, they are a lot cheaper depending on your electricity rates. Obviously. If you had solar you can largely drive for free. I ran the numbers when I was looking at a couple EVs and with my electricity rate and charging at home 99% of the time for every every $100 I spend on gas right now I would spend approximately $25 on electricity. If most of your charging is at public chargers while on the road then you are not going to save much money if any.
As for infrastructure, there has been a lot of improvements. Again. I'm not a Tesla fan, but if you look at their charging Network and now you realize that GM, Ford and most other major manufacturers are adopting that standard in the United States There are a lot of charging options, you can still use electrify America as well. A lot of the companies aren't bringing out that charger built in until 2025 or later and I think a lot of EV V potential buyers are waiting until then

Can you recharge in the same time it takes to refill a gas vehicle and do you still have to plan your trips around charging points? Also, isn't the super fast charging option actually MORE expensive than if you were to fill up a tank every 400 or so miles? I don't know what point you were trying to make because you basically just agreed with me but also felt like mentioning "things are getting better". There is no denying that, but not at the rate that makes buying EV's justifiable for the majority of people. That's the point I made.

Yes good old sticking the head in the sand. The market is not dying. The market is actually more healthy. Sales of EVS are still increasing. The reason the lightning can't sell is two reasons. Number one. You have a lot of old truck guys who wouldn't be caught dead in that that Greenpeace machine, I actually just saw a lightning by the way towing a small trailer, but the other reason it's dying is because it's not that great of a vehicle. No offense to Ford, I like the big frunk and all that, But it's just not that competitive. Look at the range of the new Chevy Silverado coming out. It's over 400 mi. What do you get in the lightning 250? Basically? It's like any new tech. It changes rapidly. That's another reason people are holding out because every year they're coming out with vehicles that charge faster and have more range. You don't get that with gas vehicles anymore the low-hanging fruit has been plucked. Anyway, full size trucks aren't the best use for EVS . Sound like a Maverick would be good but the aerodynamics on the lightning suck and if you tow something which a lot of people do in a truck it's not good for that. But for 95% of people's regular daily commute, they're just fine

They are definitely still improving range of gas vehicles my dude. MPG's have increased 10 fold what the range of EV's have in the past decade especially when you consider charging/refill times and the availability of fuel points vs. plug in spots. That aspect has not changed for gas vehicles. It's still maybe, what... a minute at the pump? Vs. how long on a charger and now you have to factor in the bigger batteries using more watts which means it will cost Americans more to implement and use more power on an already very unstable electrical grid.

You are right, most people don't need what they own to daily commute. Most people overpay and play the "look at me" game. But for the cost of EV's and what it takes to get nationwide charging capability, including when the power goes out at someone's home, it's still not affordable for those 95% you mention. Have you looked at the cost of solar panels? And now, even states are involved and try to regulate it, so they cost you more money because the state actually loses money when someone installs them. Can't have that in our free world...

I get your argument, but the points you are making don't actually make any sense towards it.

 

[Gonzo chris]

Can you recharge in the same time it takes to refill a gas vehicle and do you still have to plan your trips around charging points? Also, isn't the super fast charging option actually MORE expensive than if you were to fill up a tank every 400 or so miles? I don't know what point you were trying to make because you basically just agreed with me but also felt like mentioning "things are getting better". There is no denying that, but not at the rate that makes buying EV's justifiable for the majority of people. That's the point I made.



They are definitely still improving range of gas vehicles my dude. MPG's have increased 10 fold what the range of EV's have in the past decade especially when you consider charging/refill times and the availability of fuel points vs. plug in spots. That aspect has not changed for gas vehicles. It's still maybe, what... a minute at the pump? Vs. how long on a charger and now you have to factor in the bigger batteries using more watts which means it will cost Americans more to implement and use more power on an already very unstable electrical grid.

You are right, most people don't need what they own to daily commute. Most people overpay and play the "look at me" game. But for the cost of EV's and what it takes to get nationwide charging capability, including when the power goes out at someone's home, it's still not affordable for those 95% you mention. Have you looked at the cost of solar panels? And now, even states are involved and try to regulate it, so they cost you more money because the state actually loses money when someone installs them. Can't have that in our free world...

I get your argument, but the points you are making don't actually make any sense towards it.

Feel free to respond to my post not the one in your head. I said if you regularly drive 600 miles at a clip and want to refuel like a LeMans race an EV isn't for you. Every case is different, however most people don't drive long distances and refuel on the road more than a few times a year .
Gas mileage has improved 10 fold? Doesn't seem to be the case according to CAFE. So there were plenty of cars getting 20 MPG now there are plenty getting 200 mpg.? I drive a GMC at work and I get around 9 mpg.
So I said if you have to charge at public stations mostly you won't save money on an EV. Yes the electrical grid can never be improved, it's 1950 forever!
If solar panels are such a ripoff why are do many homeowners installing them?
Most people have two cars , one can be you road tripper . But yes since a few people live in the sticks and drive 5,000 miles a week and an EV is no good for them it's no good for anyone. Cheers
The electrical grid is EXTREMELY stable where I live the last power outage I had that lasted more than a couple of hours was superstorm Sandy in 2012. That was 12 years ago by my rudimentary math

 

[Gonzo chris]

Can you recharge in the same time it takes to refill a gas vehicle and do you still have to plan your trips around charging points? Also, isn't the super fast charging option actually MORE expensive than if you were to fill up a tank every 400 or so miles? I don't know what point you were trying to make because you basically just agreed with me but also felt like mentioning "things are getting better". There is no denying that, but not at the rate that makes buying EV's justifiable for the majority of people. That's the point I made.



They are definitely still improving range of gas vehicles my dude. MPG's have increased 10 fold what the range of EV's have in the past decade especially when you consider charging/refill times and the availability of fuel points vs. plug in spots. That aspect has not changed for gas vehicles. It's still maybe, what... a minute at the pump? Vs. how long on a charger and now you have to factor in the bigger batteries using more watts which means it will cost Americans more to implement and use more power on an already very unstable electrical grid.

You are right, most people don't need what they own to daily commute. Most people overpay and play the "look at me" game. But for the cost of EV's and what it takes to get nationwide charging capability, including when the power goes out at someone's home, it's still not affordable for those 95% you mention. Have you looked at the cost of solar panels? And now, even states are involved and try to regulate it, so they cost you more money because the state actually loses money when someone installs them. Can't have that in our free world...

I get your argument, but the points you are making don't actually make any sense towards it.

Gas stations don't work when the powers out either. If you know the storm is coming you fiil your tank ( waiting in a loooong line- looking at you Florida) if you have an EV you charge it at home with no line. Plus if you have solar and the power is out for 8 weeks - as often happens....- you can charge from the roof.
If everyone thought like you FDR would have never electrified the countryside, no profit in it.

 

[Jman79]

Yeah, it's totally going to effect Maverick Full EV possibilities!

Just like this effected the Maverick Unicorn special edition possibilities 2 years ago.

... Anything else we would like to passionately argue about which only exists in the minds of the few?

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