Effect on full EV Maverick possibilities..........??

[NextTruck]

U.S. automaker Ford Motor Company is dramatically scaling back an electric vehicle (EV) battery plant under construction in Michigan as its EV business continues to lose billions of dollars.

In an announcement Tuesday, Ford said it would resume the Marshall, Michigan, project, but reduce its scope by more than 40% and the number of jobs it is projected to create by more than 30%. Ford, which has struggled to make a profit from its ongoing shift to EVs as sales decline and costs soar, added that it remained confident in the future viability of its EV business.

.........Ford pledged in February to invest $3.5 billion in the factory, create 2,500 "good-paying jobs" and have a gigawatt capacity of 35 gigawatt hours.


..........The Whitmer administration also agreed to help fund the project with nearly $2 billion in direct subsidies and tax breaks. It is unclear if the state will lower its subsidy levels for the project in light of Tuesday's announcement. Whitmer's office didn't respond to a request for comment.


.......the company reported a loss of $1.3 billion in its EV division during the third quarter, the period between July and September, which amounts to a $62,016 loss per EV sold in that time span.

So does Michigan or the Feds need to prop this up further. If you are loosing billions, do you continue to invest billions more to feed a billion $ loosing venture. The projected job creation by scaling back the project is being cut but 32%, so the investment per job created just skyrocketed, and it remains a loosing proposition for the foreseeable future.

Just food for thought.................put the brakes on EV's or step on the gas??

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[710-oil-614]

Exactly what Ford is doing - scaling back their EV program to current demand and dedicating the resources necessary to expand their EV production to meet demand...when it gets there.

EV demand was never going to increase, linearly or predictably and any automaker who scaled their EV efforts perfectly (nobody) did so with a massive amount of luck.

It would be reckless and financially irresponsible of Ford to continue their EV program at the initial scale they attacked it with to begin 2023.

It would also be foolish and shortsighted of Ford to ax their EV program all together, or significantly pause and delay infrastructure that will be necessary for them to compete in a BEV, PHEV, HEV world.

Just like everything else in this country it is hotly debated in split - ICE v. EV - when the reality is both are here to stay for a long time while there is a horizon in the future for ICE vehicles the sun is still rising on EVs - the Venn diagram for both is closer than many realize.

 

[BradnChristine]

...

So does Michigan or the Feds need to prop this up further.

Hint: WE are the cash cows that the Feds use to prop up anythng.

 

[Maverickman74]

U.S. automaker Ford Motor Company is dramatically scaling back an electric vehicle (EV) battery plant under construction in Michigan as its EV business continues to lose billions of dollars.

In an announcement Tuesday, Ford said it would resume the Marshall, Michigan, project, but reduce its scope by more than 40% and the number of jobs it is projected to create by more than 30%. Ford, which has struggled to make a profit from its ongoing shift to EVs as sales decline and costs soar, added that it remained confident in the future viability of its EV business.

.........Ford pledged in February to invest $3.5 billion in the factory, create 2,500 "good-paying jobs" and have a gigawatt capacity of 35 gigawatt hours.


..........The Whitmer administration also agreed to help fund the project with nearly $2 billion in direct subsidies and tax breaks. It is unclear if the state will lower its subsidy levels for the project in light of Tuesday's announcement. Whitmer's office didn't respond to a request for comment.


.......the company reported a loss of $1.3 billion in its EV division during the third quarter, the period between July and September, which amounts to a $62,016 loss per EV sold in that time span.

So does Michigan or the Feds need to prop this up further. If you are loosing billions, do you continue to invest billions more to feed a billion $ loosing venture. The projected job creation by scaling back the project is being cut but 32%, so the investment per job created just skyrocketed, and it remains a loosing proposition for the foreseeable future.

Just food for thought.................put the brakes on EV's or step on the gas??

That $62k loss per vehicle did include infrastructure and development on vehicle only hitting their 3rd model year.

 

[NextTruck]

That $62k loss per vehicle did include infrastructure and development on vehicle only hitting their 3rd model year.

Always good to know where your dollars are invested!

 

[Scott Asheville]

This conversation needs to be put into context.

Just because Ford and GM are struggling with BEVs doesn't mean all OEMs are. Hyundai just announced they wished they could make more BEVs, because they can't build them fast enough to meet customer demand. Tesla profitably sold 1.8 million BEVs in 2023 and continues to scale at 50% per year (with some price incentives, but still at industry leading profit margins). Mercedes is loving their BEV sales. Volvo too.

Just saying you cannot extrapolate the failure of the Detroit Three to a whole industry. Ford has executed so poorly in the sedan space that it's pretty much thrown up its hands in despair and given up on making actual cars not named Mustang. And the Detroit Three only own the truck market because we have a protectionist 25% tariff on imported trucks.

Will we see a BEV Maverick from Ford? Who really cares - we'll see a BEV small truck (or two or three) from somebody else, when the time is right.

Should your government be subsidizing BEVs? Depends on whether or not you want an automobile industry in the USA, because the Chinese are looking at the inept Detroit Big Three and salivating.

 

[RichardCranium]

I would like to see a full electric lineup from GM or Ford by the time I am forced to buy BEV in 2035. It is unfortunate that there is not more of a demand. Unfortunately, I think BEV is a tough purchase for most, especially when the response from many is, “buy an EV for your commute and get something else for long trips.” When money is an issue, the option to buy an expensive car and then buy a second one is not an option.

 

[MavTime]

There is still plenty of demand for EV, BEV, PHEV, especially for those of us who had trusted Hybrid tech from the get-go and have been driving them for 15 years or more already. We've been waiting for a Hybrid or EV small truck since 2000s. Ford just has to think about the 6yr plan they have laid out and external factors may delay but don't stop that plan, and they aren't going to compete with themselves by releasing an EV Maverick now with so many ICE/Hybrid Mavericks in the pipeline and the EV Lighting still selling.

 

[son of a ..sven]

Starting today, Ford (F) EV owners will be able to access Tesla's (TSLA) Supercharger network with the use of an adapter. The Fast Charging Adapter — which is designed, engineered, and supplied by Tesla — will be shipped to Ford EV owners who sign up via Ford.com.5 hours ago

 

[OleFordGuy]

Hint: WE are the cash cows that the Feds use to prop up anythng.

So TRUE, but IMO I'll add, the "prop up $" burden/payer is not just the current WE but numerous generations past us for every handout and most everything else the various governments do.

 

[NextTruck]

Starting today, Ford (F) EV owners will be able to access Tesla's (TSLA) Supercharger network with the use of an adapter. The Fast Charging Adapter — which is designed, engineered, and supplied by Tesla — will be shipped to Ford EV owners who sign up via Ford.com.5 hours ago

Cool. EV demand should make a turn around.

 

[Traegorn]

Y'know, people keep saying there's less demand, but EV sales have been consistently increasing. The only real reason they're leveling off is because they're just still so expensive which is pricing a lot of people out of the market.

Like, you can't buy an EV for the price of a Maverick. That's what's slowing them down.

 

[Montana]

Y'know, people keep saying there's less demand, but EV sales have been consistently increasing. The only real reason they're leveling off is because they're just still so expensive which is pricing a lot of people out of the market.

Like, you can't buy an EV for the price of a Maverick. That's what's slowing them down.

They are leveling off because the cost to maintain them is still outrageous and has arguably gotten worse even due to "shortages". There are too many scenarios where they do not perform well enough to justify the majority of people buying them. It's not entirely about cost though - it's the fact that you have to plan everything around them.

You can't "fill up" quickly without shelling out essentially the same amount as an ICE or Hybrid vehicle and it's still slower to do. You have to park in certain areas to do it. Your trip length and locations are limited due to charging station availability and range. If power goes out, you are screwed. The fossil fuel infrastructure might not be the most stable and people not the most prepared if that fail either, but there is still a massive amount more support for the average person in terms of preparation than for EV's - i.e. fuel cans vs. needing solar panels which again, provide no use in certain scenarios.

Most EV owners either live in heavily populated areas and/or have a secondary vehicle and use EV's for shorter trips. Studies have shown this for years now. The whole point was EV's were supposed to be cheaper and hopefully get better in terms of range... very little progress has been made in the range category, or infrastructure and cost has increased.

Current incentives that manufacturers are offering are lower than average interest rates and "dropping" costs (at least on the sticker). But when that vehicle is $50k+ OTD already, where are you really saving any money? They are status vehicles and a fashion statement more than anything else, but also the market (vehicles cost and financing) is such a disaster that people are taking lower interest rates over anything else. So naturally the marketing of "get this cheaper" draws people to it when in reality, like you said, it isn't actually any cheaper at all.

I think there will continue to be some increase in sales as there always have been, even during COVID, but it doesn't represent most people transitioning to EVs. It's mostly people taking on or replacing secondary vehicles that they don't really need to begin with.

 

[Traegorn]

Most EV owners either live in heavily populated areas

Sorry, kind of stopped reading after that. You just described about 86% of Americans.

Yeah. Most EV owners live in heavily populated areas. Because most people do. And considering how much EVs are on the rise in other parts of the world, clearly they're working out for most people. The problem is that American companies are focused on larger, expensive models where overseas smaller, cheaper EVs have taken off.

And again, even here in the states -- EVs continue to sell more every year.
https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q4-2023-ev-sales/

Are we at the point where they're right for everyone? No. Absolutely not. *I* don't own an EV and it would be impractical for me right now.

But when we mistake our own needs for everyone else's, we miss the forest for the trees.

 

[Montana]

Sorry, kind of stopped reading after that. You just described about 86% of Americans.

Yeah. Most EV owners live in heavily populated areas. Because most people do. And considering how much EVs are on the rise in other parts of the world, clearly they're working out for most people. The problem is that American companies are focused on larger, expensive models where overseas smaller, cheaper EVs have taken off.

And again, even here in the states -- EVs continue to sell more every year.
https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q4-2023-ev-sales/

Are we at the point where they're right for everyone? No. Absolutely not. *I* don't own an EV and it would be impractical for me right now.

But when we mistake our own needs for everyone else's, we miss the forest for the trees.

I listed the needs of many. You chose to ignore them for one statement. Missed the Forrest by about 100 miles there.

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