2.5L Hybrid Engine - 20% Ethanol Experiment

[Master Blaster]

My MPG increased over the first few tankfuls. It's hard to say how much of this is due to powertrain break-in as opposed to driver learning to use a hybrid. Numbers on this graph are 4.4% higher than measured at the pump. Shorter trips definitely hurt from engine warm-up.

Be aware that because fuel expands and contracts with changes in ambient temperature, the station pump varies the amount of fuel depending upon the temperature. They've been doing this for at least 40 years to give you less fuel than what the meter says. It can vary through more than 10%, so the amount of fuel claimed to be delivered by the pump is a very bad measure.

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[colinl]

Interesting thread.

I have an ecoboost maverick and I have a custom tune made by @yamahaSHO to use this very fuel. Jumpstart E30 is actually at least 93 octane, and I've tested it several times to be 27% to 30% ethanol. It's blended from E10 87 octane which is why it's only 93 octane.

It's also cheap as hell which is why I use it. It's typically 80 to 120 cents per gallon cheaper than E10 91 octane which is the normal premium unleaded gas distributed in this area.

At the Jumpstart pumps, the E30 fuel is listed as 'Super 93' but I have not seen any warning about the 30% ethanol content. I would not use it in any stock Maverick, hybrid or ecoboost. The manual states you shouldn't, but doesn't explain why.

It is not because the ethanol will harm hoses or any other component of the fuel system. It's because it may not add enough fuel to compensate for the lower BTU that high ethanol gas gives, and you could run lean especially cruising.

There are a few Casey's gas stations that have E10 93 and it's very expensive - it's probably worth running in a sportbike, or mixed for a 2 stroke dirtbike, or in an imported JDM car that wants 95 RON fuel, but may offer no benefit over 91 in a stock ecoboost Maverick. Definitely no benefit in a hybrid.

 

[Ozarkbeard]

I often wondered whether I would get better MPG with higher octane and whether it would be worth the money

Unlike the ecoboost, there is no advantage of running higher octane gas in the Hybrid.

I run either Real Gas (ethanol-free) or no more than 10% ethanol. Always TopTier though, when possible.

https://stationfinder.toptiergas.com

 

[MetalsGeek]

Be aware that because fuel expands and contracts with changes in ambient temperature, the station pump varies the amount of fuel depending upon the temperature. They've been doing this for at least 40 years to give you less fuel than what the meter says. It can vary through more than 10%, so the amount of fuel claimed to be delivered by the pump is a very bad measure.

It's funny how our digital world give us the illusion of precision in the measurement of things. While your concerns over temperature are certainly valid, I believe the reality is somewhat different. The coefficient of thermal expansion for gasoline is roughly 0.1% per degree C, so a 10 deg C excursion throughout a day becomes just 1% of volumetric variance. Modern gasoline pumps also include temperature compensation that adjusts to a standard of 15 deg C (60 F). That being said, pump calibration is certainly worthy of concern. Some stations near me have been caught in overt fraud here. I have a precision graduated cylinder and more than once have considered using it to verify a pump reading, but it's such a pain I never actually did it. If you have any better ways to check accuracy of your local pump, please share.

 

[dochawk]

EcoBest loves it, it's like Jack Daniels to the injectors.

A foreshadowing of the police reports when the upcoming self driving cars get pulled over.

"Car, let the person drive you home!"

 

[The Real Maverick]

No, it is a chemical limit. Alcohol is a very good solvent. That's also why all small engine manufacturers do not want any alcohol in the fuel, as the fuel paths in the zinc carburetor castings and the brass floats get totally destroyed.

And... since when were we talking about small carbureted engines? Oh yes. Just you.

Any car or truck built in the past 20 years is not harmed by high ethanol. The fact remains, EPA "certified" only up to 15% - mainly because it is rare for most areas to even sell anything higher.

 

[Jonny44]

I use it in my 5.0 F150 and it averages 19.1/gallon, but for the Mav I use the 15% 88 octane which averages 38 mpg (including frequent towing).

 

[am_fm_radio]

To all... I authored this post simply because I wanted to report my findings.
As 1949 old Detroit Iron vintage raised within 5 miles of Ford World Headquarters. Every kid my age monkeyed with cars.. It was fast cars and faster women.. Every kid my age knew whatever came out of Detroit could be improved on. Simply because the Government got into the act.. Ralph Nader etc...

Over the 60 years I've been driving and I've had company cars, and about all the domestic brands except AMC and Tesla, a few foreign ones. and because of wife, kids, economy, gas shortages, inflation, deflation., higher taxes, and life.. Hours of listening to Click and Clack.. I still change my own oil, own 450 pounds of wrenches, a grease gun, 2 air compressors. My daily driver is my 2002 GMC Duramax diesel, I bought new. My new Maverick is for dress up Sunday go to meeting. The maverick replaced a 2013 Mercedes that just didn't fit in, in Kansas where I live. No one even carry's an oil filter for it except the dealer. He wants $35 for the oil filter over the counter and $250 for an oil change they suck the oil out the dipstick. At least i drop the belly pan.

My point- like no Mercedes oil filters and 10%-20%-30% blended ethanol cut gasoline is standard out here in Kansas because everyone drives old pickup trucks. I've lived east coast and west coast. it's different. Nobody bats a eye if you have 200,000 on anything here. There is no Tesla Dealers here anywhere in Kansas. Break down is a
Suburu and have fun trying to find warranty repair.

On reply posts thus far, everyone is poo-pooing ethanol blends over 10% yet the locals here in Kansas love it and down at the local VFW everyone claims they run better, and cleaner with it. Even on TV they rave it helps the Kansas farmer.. Personally I think FORD restricts the blend to 10% in their recommendations so the government doesn't make it conform to immissions at 0%-10%-20%-30%... Here in Liberty Free Kansas there is no emmission testing like in those communist areas of the country. Does Ford even hqave a FLEX fuel car-truck in their lineup for 2024-25.. I think only GM does.

I tried 20% in my Maverick the 7% loss in mileage does not make it economically practical in my hybrid. But in our area.. Wichita, the largest city in Kansas we have no
"name brand" Gasoline stations. Like Shell, Exxon, or Sunoco, EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE is 10% to 15% at least ethanol I know of 1 No ETHANOL gas pump at one station here and the price is higher than the other stations carrying Premium 10%., The claim is it is to be used in old outboards, model A's, flat heads, old Harleys, FORD 8N and Moline Tractors. We used to call it unleaded or White gas...

Happy days are here, gas actually is on a decline since I bought the Maverick end of September... Looking forward to good gas prices the next 4 years and beyond.

So don't confuse my report of using 20% ethanol as an endorcement to do so. but simply my 1st hand experience.. The threat of Ford voiding warranty is kind of moot as whe knows what the station is selling out of it's tanks. Besides you hear of no warranty violations of all the guys installing lift kits and new full flow mufflers on their new mavericks

 

[Limeymav]

firstly why did you go to Detriot to buy your Maverick, when Long Mcarthur is only 60 mile up the road in Salina, i thought they had some of the best deals in the US, i flew from FL to Wichita, where Long Mcarthur picked me up,stayed in Salina, left the next day & drove mine back To FL, They paid for flights hotels & gas,
your merc liked the higher octane, turbos love E30, i would imagine it was abel to sense the higher octane and cooler running and was advancing timing & boost to suit

 

[yamahaSHO]

Interesting thread.

I have an ecoboost maverick and I have a custom tune made by @yamahaSHO to use this very fuel. Jumpstart E30 is actually at least 93 octane, and I've tested it several times to be 27% to 30% ethanol. It's blended from E10 87 octane which is why it's only 93 octane.

It's also cheap as hell which is why I use it. It's typically 80 to 120 cents per gallon cheaper than E10 91 octane which is the normal premium unleaded gas distributed in this area.

At the Jumpstart pumps, the E30 fuel is listed as 'Super 93' but I have not seen any warning about the 30% ethanol content. I would not use it in any stock Maverick, hybrid or ecoboost. The manual states you shouldn't, but doesn't explain why.

It is not because the ethanol will harm hoses or any other component of the fuel system. It's because it may not add enough fuel to compensate for the lower BTU that high ethanol gas gives, and you could run lean especially cruising.

There are a few Casey's gas stations that have E10 93 and it's very expensive - it's probably worth running in a sportbike, or mixed for a 2 stroke dirtbike, or in an imported JDM car that wants 95 RON fuel, but may offer no benefit over 91 in a stock ecoboost Maverick. Definitely no benefit in a hybrid.

I wish we had a n E30 pump around here. I'd run it in our Maverick and Ranger... But without a fairly consistent source, I don't want to be mixing. I already mix E50 for my Saturn Sky Redline and my RZR XP Turbo. My turbo S2000 is on a Haltech ECU, so I have a FlexFuel sensor hooked up to it and can run whatever.

 

[DevoMcDev0]

Ok, I just sold my 24 Hybrid Mav to Carvana, and ordering a 25 hybrid AWD tomorrow.

So, I had almost a year to play with it, I ran it to E and ran one tank of pure gas at 90 octane.

Average on e10 87 was 42ish mpg, best tanks, 44 mpg, all local and hyper miling.

On the tank of real gas, I got 51.5 mpg, and that included a bit more highway time.

Improvement was approximately 16 percent, gas cost increase about 20 percent, so technically not worth it, but I can tell you, my 03 Corvette will get nothing but pure gas from now on, as will my riding mower, chainsaws, weed eaters, etc.

I ruined one carb at least, on a riding mower, seals swelled and gas just ran out through the carb, and I suspect it's contributed to carb issues with other equipment.

 

[First Sergeant]

To all... I authored this post simply because I wanted to report my findings.
As 1949 old Detroit Iron vintage raised within 5 miles of Ford World Headquarters. Every kid my age monkeyed with cars.. It was fast cars and faster women.. Every kid my age knew whatever came out of Detroit could be improved on. Simply because the Government got into the act.. Ralph Nader etc...

Over the 60 years I've been driving and I've had company cars, and about all the domestic brands except AMC and Tesla, a few foreign ones. and because of wife, kids, economy, gas shortages, inflation, deflation., higher taxes, and life.. Hours of listening to Click and Clack.. I still change my own oil, own 450 pounds of wrenches, a grease gun, 2 air compressors. My daily driver is my 2002 GMC Duramax diesel, I bought new. My new Maverick is for dress up Sunday go to meeting. The maverick replaced a 2013 Mercedes that just didn't fit in, in Kansas where I live. No one even carry's an oil filter for it except the dealer. He wants $35 for the oil filter over the counter and $250 for an oil change they suck the oil out the dipstick. At least i drop the belly pan.

My point- like no Mercedes oil filters and 10%-20%-30% blended ethanol cut gasoline is standard out here in Kansas because everyone drives old pickup trucks. I've lived east coast and west coast. it's different. Nobody bats a eye if you have 200,000 on anything here. There is no Tesla Dealers here anywhere in Kansas. Break down is a
Suburu and have fun trying to find warranty repair.

On reply posts thus far, everyone is poo-pooing ethanol blends over 10% yet the locals here in Kansas love it and down at the local VFW everyone claims they run better, and cleaner with it. Even on TV they rave it helps the Kansas farmer.. Personally I think FORD restricts the blend to 10% in their recommendations so the government doesn't make it conform to immissions at 0%-10%-20%-30%... Here in Liberty Free Kansas there is no emmission testing like in those communist areas of the country. Does Ford even hqave a FLEX fuel car-truck in their lineup for 2024-25.. I think only GM does.

I tried 20% in my Maverick the 7% loss in mileage does not make it economically practical in my hybrid. But in our area.. Wichita, the largest city in Kansas we have no
"name brand" Gasoline stations. Like Shell, Exxon, or Sunoco, EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE is 10% to 15% at least ethanol I know of 1 No ETHANOL gas pump at one station here and the price is higher than the other stations carrying Premium 10%., The claim is it is to be used in old outboards, model A's, flat heads, old Harleys, FORD 8N and Moline Tractors. We used to call it unleaded or White gas...

Happy days are here, gas actually is on a decline since I bought the Maverick end of September... Looking forward to good gas prices the next 4 years and beyond.

So don't confuse my report of using 20% ethanol as an endorcement to do so. but simply my 1st hand experience.. The threat of Ford voiding warranty is kind of moot as whe knows what the station is selling out of it's tanks. Besides you hear of no warranty violations of all the guys installing lift kits and new full flow mufflers on their new mavericks

Nice writeup! Man, I do miss Click and Clack! What a great program and those guys could be funny as heck! Don't know of anything like that on radio today.

 

[The Real Maverick]

Ok, I just sold my 24 Hybrid Mav to Carvana, and ordering a 25 hybrid AWD tomorrow.

So, I had almost a year to play with it, I ran it to E and ran one tank of pure gas at 90 octane.

Average on e10 87 was 42ish mpg, best tanks, 44 mpg, all local and hyper miling.

On the tank of real gas, I got 51.5 mpg, and that included a bit more highway time.

Improvement was approximately 16 percent, gas cost increase about 20 percent, so technically not worth it, but I can tell you, my 03 Corvette will get nothing but pure gas from now on, as will my riding mower, chainsaws, weed eaters, etc.

I ruined one carb at least, on a riding mower, seals swelled and gas just ran out through the carb, and I suspect it's contributed to carb issues with other equipment.

Your '03 Corvette has a carb? Weird.

 

[DevoMcDev0]

Your '03 Corvette has a carb? Weird.

Read closer please.

It was a riding mower.

Weird huh?

 

[The Real Maverick]

Read closer please.

It was a riding mower.

Weird huh?

Weird that you are comparing small non electronically controlled carbureted engines to modern electronically controlled fuel injected automobile engines. Yes. I think most people would agree that is "weird".

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