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Darnon

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* MPG and MPGe are terrible units of measure. gal / mile and kWh / mile are better, $ / mile is the best way to compare gas to electric driving costs.
MPGe isn't really intended to be a measure of EV efficiency in the sense of how far you can go, but is more a metric designed to slot into CAFE calculations.
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vap0rtranz

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MPGe isn't really intended to be a measure of EV efficiency in the sense of how far you can go, but is more a metric designed to slot into CAFE calculations.
Yup, and a feel-good #. I imagine a government committee debating it ... "How can we dumb this down? Oh add an 'e" to MPG, and a silly calculation that makes the # big, then let the public swallow a big one." :ROFLMAO:
 

LSchicago

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+1 Long road trips is exactly where PHEVs are the worst. You are carrying around all that extra weight for no benefit on long highway drives. PHEVs generally are slightly less fuel efficient on the highway. If most of your driving is <30 mile trips, a PHEV might be a cost-efficient option over time.
Which for most people is what 1 to 4 times a year? No big deal.
 

Darnon

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Yup, and a feel-good #. I imagine a government committee debating it ... "How can we dumb this down? Oh add an 'e" to MPG, and a silly calculation that makes the # big, then let the public swallow a big one." :ROFLMAO:
Or a bunch of Texans in EPA focus groups who only understand MPG.

Ford Maverick No Plans for Plug-In Hybrid (PHEV) Maverick Says Mike Levine 1687268577548
Ford Maverick No Plans for Plug-In Hybrid (PHEV) Maverick Says Mike Levine 1687268589964
Ford Maverick No Plans for Plug-In Hybrid (PHEV) Maverick Says Mike Levine 1687268606024
 

LSchicago

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vap0rtranz

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JimParker256

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Or a bunch of Texans in EPA focus groups who only understand MPG.

1687268577548.webp
1687268589964.webp
1687268606024.webp
Seems like the comments from all four cities (Seattle, Chicago, Houston, and Charlotte) were not much different, so I don't think it was just "a bunch of Texans ... who only understand MPG".

It's kind of like the difference between "miles per gallon" and "liters per 100 km" metrics... If I were only buying enough fuel for a specific trip (which at European prices, I might well be doing!), then knowing how much fuel I need to go a specific distance (L/100 Km) might be of more interest than knowing how far I can go on one gallon (mpg). It's just a different way of thinking about it, and US customers are used to mpg, so anything relating to that will be more "intuitive"...

Or maybe if we (US) were on the metric system like 99.8% of the rest of the world, we could do math in our heads... I hate it when my wife says "I want to make a third of this recipe, so can you tell me what is 1/3 of a half-cup of milk?" (Sure, but it may take a while for me to remember how many tablespoons are in a cup, dear...)
 

Automate

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Well I guess I was wrong about that. A total of 2 vehicles qualify for UP TO $7,500. No guarantee you will get the full $7,500, and my guess is very few will.
It was a bigger list if you purchased before April 18th
Ford Maverick No Plans for Plug-In Hybrid (PHEV) Maverick Says Mike Levine 1687271906560
 

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stoptothink

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Which for most people is what 1 to 4 times a year? No big deal.
Not for us. The huge majority of the 7k miles we currently have on our Maverick are for trips well >30 miles. Not only do we make too much to qualify for the PHEV tax credit, but (because we work from home and do a ton of outdoor activities) the larger battery is of little to no benefit for a lot of our driving - it would take decades (if ever) to recoup the upfront cost. As I said, do your own math.

If our use case was as a basic daily commuter, we would have bought a Bolt.
 

Scott Asheville

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One of the published findings is that many PHEV owners never plug them in. Original study is linked in this article. EPA has taken notice. Hybrids and PHEVs are an overly complex solution pushed by automakers who have a large industrial base in ICE to amortize, or who service customers in the second and third world nations (where ICE rules and will rule for longer than the first world).

https://theicct.org/us-phev-usage-regs-jun23/
 

rmay635703

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One of the published findings is that many PHEV owners never plug them in. Original study is linked in this article. EPA has taken notice. Hybrids and PHEVs are an overly complex solution pushed by automakers who have a large industrial base in ICE to amortize, or who service customers in the second and third world nations (where ICE rules and will rule for longer than the first world).

https://theicct.org/us-phev-usage-regs-jun23/
That data is mirroring a mainly a Euro centric problem.

Back in ye olde times there were folks that tracked the fleet of volts energy use (the volt used to give statistics back to big brother that an open source website let you search and make into metrics)

The “people” who didn’t plug in usually weren’t people at all.

The vast majority were company aligned vehicles that also conviently only reimbursed gas costs and
had no charge reimbursement or method to charge.

Lots of normal folks bought these used mostly gas powered fleet vehicles from auction and they got a second life as mostly EV powered. Some went as far to replace the head unit to reset lifetime mpgs.

The Toyota PIP with its 8 mile range was also a “nobody plugs in” example but demonstrated the
“I buy cars for HOV access”
And even if you did plug in it did little for a 200 mile commute.

That said the pips battery is almost the same capacity as several non-plug in hybrids and should have had a very minimal cost markup, meaning many normal hybrids could just be left alone with a plug added. I and many other folks do short errands <5 miles that would benefit from not wearing the gas engine out to go a few miles for groceries.

These rather limited plug in cars could also have a $250 Solar panel added to get a few miles of travel and potentially run a ventilation fan.

The reality is the nobody plugs in PHEVs problem is overstated
(I don’t care about Euro zone specific problems) and easy to solve as we already know the 2 main groups who were guilty and why.
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