Why is the Hybrid 2.5L

[Timothyd]

Everything said above is 100% correct.
In addition, Ford already had the 2.5L Atkinson available from other vehicles; they did not have to develop a new engine for the Maverick hybrid.

There's not much "new". So the price point.

Sponsored

 

[raymaines]

I have a Harley Davidson kind of friend that really doesn't understand why a four cylinder, 650cc bike with a 20 zillion rpm rev limit could possibly be faster than his 114 ci cruiser.

 

[JimParker256]

Many, many years ago, I read an article in Popular Mechanics (or Popular Science - not sure which) about a guy who had developed a powertrain that would use a relatively small gasoline engine optimized to run at a specific RPM (for optimal fuel efficiency). That engine would supply the power to turn a generator. The generator's output would be stored in a battery, and the battery would power electric motors driving the vehicle's wheels.

Kind of a "non-joke" version of a Tesla towing a generator for "refueling" along the way... Only designed up-front and highly optimized for the purpose.

At that time (late '60s, IIRC), the efficiencies of the ICE power plant, batteries, and electric motors were all inadequate to the task. But these days, it seems like it might be at least worth exploration... Modern day plug-in hybrids are not too far from that idea, except they still cling to the idea that the ICE has to power the wheels.

Side note: Turbine engines were all the rage in the late '60s. Remember the Andy Granatelli "STP Paxton Turbine Car" at the Indianapolis 500? Anyway, the guy who wrote the article about it wondered if a small turbine engine would be better than an ICE. The whole "power plant" would be considerably smaller than even a tiny 3-cylinder gas engine.

At the time, I thought that was just about the coolest thing I had ever heard of... But we've learned how to make the ICE platform MUCH more efficient in the years since that article was written, while turbines are still pretty inefficient at altitudes below about 25,000 ft.

 

[Automate]

Many, many years ago, I read an article in Popular Mechanics (or Popular Science - not sure which) about a guy who had developed a powertrain that would use a relatively small gasoline engine optimized to run at a specific RPM (for optimal fuel efficiency). That engine would supply the power to turn a generator. The generator's output would be stored in a battery, and the battery would power electric motors driving the vehicle's wheels.

Kind of a "non-joke" version of a Tesla towing a generator for "refueling" along the way... Only designed up-front and highly optimized for the purpose.

At that time (late '60s, IIRC), the efficiencies of the ICE power plant, batteries, and electric motors were all inadequate to the task. But these days, it seems like it might be at least worth exploration... Modern day plug-in hybrids are not too far from that idea, except they still cling to the idea that the ICE has to power the wheels.

Side note: Turbine engines were all the rage in the late '60s. Remember the Andy Granatelli "STP Paxton Turbine Car" at the Indianapolis 500? Anyway, the guy who wrote the article about it wondered if a small turbine engine would be better than an ICE. The whole "power plant" would be considerably smaller than even a tiny 3-cylinder gas engine.

At the time, I thought that was just about the coolest thing I had ever heard of... But we've learned how to make the ICE platform MUCH more efficient in the years since that article was written, while turbines are still pretty inefficient at altitudes below about 25,000 ft.

Your dream car is here. Well not in the US, yet.

A plugin series hybrid that only runs its tiny single rotor Wankel engine at one speed.

 

[Bushpilot]

Many, many years ago, I read an article in Popular Mechanics (or Popular Science - not sure which) about a guy who had developed a powertrain that would use a relatively small gasoline engine optimized to run at a specific RPM (for optimal fuel efficiency). That engine would supply the power to turn a generator. The generator's output would be stored in a battery, and the battery would power electric motors driving the vehicle's wheels.

Kind of a "non-joke" version of a Tesla towing a generator for "refueling" along the way... Only designed up-front and highly optimized for the purpose.

At that time (late '60s, IIRC), the efficiencies of the ICE power plant, batteries, and electric motors were all inadequate to the task. But these days, it seems like it might be at least worth exploration... Modern day plug-in hybrids are not too far from that idea, except they still cling to the idea that the ICE has to power the wheels.

You almost describe the Chevy Volt. There is a mode where the engine drives the wheels, but most of the time it is just a generator.

 

[GPSMan]

Many, many years ago, I read an article in Popular Mechanics (or Popular Science - not sure which) about a guy who had developed a powertrain that would use a relatively small gasoline engine optimized to run at a specific RPM (for optimal fuel efficiency). That engine would supply the power to turn a generator. The generator's output would be stored in a battery, and the battery would power electric motors driving the vehicle's wheels.

Kind of a "non-joke" version of a Tesla towing a generator for "refueling" along the way... Only designed up-front and highly optimized for the purpose.

At that time (late '60s, IIRC), the efficiencies of the ICE power plant, batteries, and electric motors were all inadequate to the task. But these days, it seems like it might be at least worth exploration... Modern day plug-in hybrids are not too far from that idea, except they still cling to the idea that the ICE has to power the wheels.

Side note: Turbine engines were all the rage in the late '60s. Remember the Andy Granatelli "STP Paxton Turbine Car" at the Indianapolis 500? Anyway, the guy who wrote the article about it wondered if a small turbine engine would be better than an ICE. The whole "power plant" would be considerably smaller than even a tiny 3-cylinder gas engine.

At the time, I thought that was just about the coolest thing I had ever heard of... But we've learned how to make the ICE platform MUCH more efficient in the years since that article was written, while turbines are still pretty inefficient at altitudes below about 25,000 ft.

Been on the market for a decade.
Where ya been?

BMW i3 EV with (gasoline) range extender for long trips.

The BMW i3 an electric vehicle with a 22 kWh (18.8 kWh usable) battery that gives it a range of 80-100 miles.

The Range Extender is a small 2 cylinder 0.647 liter (39.5 cubic inch) inline 4-valve per cylinder gasoline engine that produces 34 horsepower and 40 lb-ft of torque, both at 4300 rpm. The gasoline engine is only used to charge the batteries, and is not connected to the wheels. With the Range Extender you can travel 160 to 180 miles.

 

[JimParker256]

Been on the market for a decade.
Where ya been?

BMW i3 EV with (gasoline) range extender for long trips.
<<snip>>

Yeah, I do remember that one, and being initially excited until I read the specs... Even BMW referred to the engine/generator combo as only a "range extender," meaning that it could not generate enough electricity to offset what was being consumed in even normal city driving. The 2-gallon gas tank extended the max range by only 76 miles miles - which means it's getting under 40 mpg on gas... And from what I remember, the "real world" range of the i3 EV was substantially less than the claimed range, even with the range extender.

Close, but no cigar... (Besides - that thing's uglier than the Santa Cruz!)

 

[JimParker256]

You almost describe the Chevy Volt. There is a mode where the engine drives the wheels, but most of the time it is just a generator.

Yeah, the Volt was probably the closest "real" car to that guy's design. But Chevy just couldn't bring themselves to do away with the heavy transmission and drive train that would have made it even lighter and a better vehicle overall. They didn't think the world was ready for that...

My neighbor had a Volt and loved it so much that he bought the Cadillac equivalent for his wife. We looked at them at one point, but I found it somewhat uncomfortable, and my wife (who has had surgery on her cervical spine) could not stand the way the headrests "forced" her head to bend forward all the time. Extreme pain even after sitting in it on the showroom floor for 5 minutes.

 

[JimParker256]

Your dream car is here. Well not in the US, yet.

A plugin series hybrid that only runs its tiny single rotor Wankel engine at one speed.

YEAH! Mazda nailed it! The Wankel rotary is perfect for that application. Too bad we're not getting that one here in the US in 2023... (Or ever? No word on that.)

I always liked the rotary's smoothness. I almost bought an original RX-7 when they came out, but I was given orders for Korea (Army) and the timing didn't work. By the time I got back to the US, we were planning to start a family, and needed something with at least four seats – plus room for an Airedale in the back, but that's another whole story. Years later, I was ready to buy an RX-8, but they had lowered the roof line so much that my head was smashed against the top of the car while sitting. (And I'm 5'11"...)

 

[GPSMan]

Yeah, I do remember that one, and being initially excited until I read the specs... Even BMW referred to the engine/generator combo as only a "range extender," meaning that it could not generate enough electricity to offset what was being consumed in even normal city driving. The 2-gallon gas tank extended the max range by only 76 miles miles - which means it's getting under 40 mpg on gas... And from what I remember, the "real world" range of the i3 EV was substantially less than the claimed range, even with the range extender.

Close, but no cigar... (Besides - that thing's uglier than the Santa Cruz!)

For your consideration:

1 gallon of gasoline contains 33 kWH of energy.

The common standard in fair weather for a compact car is 3.9 miles per kWH.
Something larger like F-150 lightning, about 2.0 miles per kWH.

Therefore, the theoretical limit at 100% efficiency of gasoline to electrical energy is:

3.9 x 33 = 128 MPG for a compact car
2.0 x 33 = 66 MPG for a big heavy one

Good gasoline engines are 40% efficient. Say someone invents one that is 50% efficient.

The realistic goal for "recharging with gasoline" should be:

64 MPG for a compact car,
33 MPG for a big heavy one.

Anything more approaches free energy and perpetual motion.

Of honorable mention:

2000 Manual Transmission Honda Insight Without Air-Conditioning:

"Insight, with its 1-liter, 63-horsepower 3-cylinder gas engine and 7-h.p. electric motor serviced by 120 “D” size NiMH batteries, is rated at 61 m.p.g. city/70 m.p.g. highway."

Air Conditioning knocks that down a few and automatic transmission knocks it down a few more. This to this day, is the most efficient production vehicle made. Had one. Really liked it. Ran like a top for 16-17 years.

 

[JimParker256]

<<snip>>
Of honorable mention:

2000 Manual Transmission Honda Insight
<<snip>>

I test drove an Insight when they first came out. At the time, I had a 40-minute commute to work - mostly on city streets – and it would have been ideal for that... Except for the fact that the AC cut off when the engine did it's "auto-stop" thing... With outside air temps hovering above 100ºF for days on end, and with frequent stops for red lights on that route, it couldn't keep the cabin temp below 90ºF, and I just couldn't deal with arriving at the office needing a shower every day! I understand they fixed that in subsequent production years by going to an electric AC unit, but by that time I had a car I loved and I kept it for a long time...

 

[AutobahnSHO]

Many, many years ago, I read an article in Popular Mechanics (or Popular Science - not sure which) about a guy who had developed a powertrain that would use a relatively small gasoline engine optimized to run at a specific RPM (for optimal fuel efficiency). That engine would supply the power to turn a generator. The generator's output would be stored in a battery, and the battery would power electric motors driving the vehicle's wheels.

Kind of a "non-joke" version of a Tesla towing a generator for "refueling" along the way... Only designed up-front and highly optimized for the purpose.

That's what diesel locomotives do. And as someone mentioned, the Chevy Volt.

 

[Michaelkov]

So here is possibly a dumb question why is the hybrid a 2.5L but the gas is a 2.0

Bug fixes...

 

[Automate]

That's what diesel locomotives do.

Except the locomotives have little or no battery storage so the diesel speed/power goes up and down based upon the demand of the electric motor. So the diesel speed is not constant.

 

[Darnon]

Many of the recent Honda/Acura hybrids operate the same way functioning as a series hybrid until high speed where they directly utilize the ICE at a fixed ratio when it becomes more efficient than doing the conversion and running through the electric motor.

Sponsored