If they made a full EV Maverick, would you buy, switch? [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[Scott Asheville]

The thread is missing a needed qualifying word "today" or "tomorrow". As a huge BEV fan who doesn't own a BEV, I obviously made the personal decision that nobody sells a BEV today that meets my personal use case (cost, performance, usability).

Tomorrow? That's a whole different question. BEV tech is progressing at light speed, mainly because every OEM on the planet is putting the majority of their R&D funding into BEV development. Multiple OEMs have said no more ICE vehicles. Volvo is all electric by 2025 for example. Tesla's already all Electric, as is Lucid. Believe it or not, Cadillac is rapidly moving to be an all electric brand.

Again speaking as a BEV fan, I RESPECT most of the arguments put forth by other posters who aren't fans. You're right for you. Today BEVs tend to be expensive, with ranges and recharging time and availability and cold weather performance that should give you real pause if your life doesn't match current BEV attributes.

But I'd encourage you to keep your eyes open and monitor the progress of the technology and infrastructure over the next few years. I think you'll like what you see around 2025. And I'd bet real money the average First World car buyer will be salivating for a BEV well before 2030. Yea, even those who have diesel fuel running through their veins.

So there's yesterday, today, and tomorrow. And my answer to the OP depends on which he's asking about.

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[dalola]

The reason I say that is that EV's aren't as universally capable as ICE vehicles. Look at the towing test they did with the lightening - they made it what, 70 miles? Unacceptable. At some point they will be just as capable but not now. The teslas are great as daily drivers. For other tasks not so much. The performance is amazing though and it's a glimpse of what's to come.

My acid test is what would happen during an emergency like a katrina evacuation. Right now I could put 15 gallons of gas in cans in the bed of my truck and make something like 5-600 miles or so and refill the tank and gas cans in about 5 minutes once I find a pump. If I had to I could siphon some gas from another vehicle to keep going. Right now you can't do that sort of thing with an EV.

For now I'd like to see hybrid technology be more common and standardized. You get the best of both worlds while mitigating the negative of both technologies. This is the best way forward for the next 10 years at least.

In my honest opinion I think in about 3-5 years we will see a glut of used EV's on the market that have low value due to the cost of battery replacement and a better understanding of their limitations.

I think this would be the "natural evolution" if EV's weren't being forced upon us by those who know better. The notion that this world is ready for an immediate switch to renewables is absurd.

 

[Clock Doc]

I don't think it's worth considering at this time, there's a lot of work with the power grid that needs to be done. A lot.

That's just one of the many many issues with electric veh. The fact that it takes 40yrs for an EV to become carbon neutral as opposed to 10yrs on a gas veh. Is another.
Then there is the cost of replacing the power source after 8 to 10 yrs. Which starts the whole 40yr neutrality clock over. I keep my veh. 15 to 20ys on average. Then there is the whole bursting in flames thing due to shorting out. The added cost because I can't work on it myself.
No thank you.
I may reconsider if they ever produce a less environmentally damaging, longer range power source that I can change out myself.

 

[Msjulie]

That's just one of the many many issues with electric veh. The fact that it takes 40yrs for an EV to become carbon neutral as opposed to 10yrs on a gas veh. Is another.

Can you provide sources for those numbers, everything I've read is there reverse. Thanks

I know not everyone believes the EPA https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths

 

[projectvortex]

Not today. Maybe once a truck that gets 400+ miles per charge, can be charged quickly and costs less than an arm and a leg, I would consider one. Given these criteria, the ultimate answer may be never.

 

[TyPope]

They might be a hoot to drive, but it comes at a premium cost. The benefits don’t outweigh the risk of ownership.

Everyone's calculus is different. For us, it is worth it. At the time, her Model Y was just about $9k more than the Explorer she was looking at. There really isn't any risk of ownership... at least till the warranty runs out next year. After that, well, we'll see. We aren't really known for keeping cars much longer than 3-5 years... Keep wanting that next new thing.

 

[TyPope]

The reason I say that is that EV's aren't as universally capable as ICE vehicles. Look at the towing test they did with the lightening - they made it what, 70 miles? Unacceptable. At some point they will be just as capable but not now. The teslas are great as daily drivers. For other tasks not so much. The performance is amazing though and it's a glimpse of what's to come.

My acid test is what would happen during an emergency like a katrina evacuation. Right now I could put 15 gallons of gas in cans in the bed of my truck and make something like 5-600 miles or so and refill the tank and gas cans in about 5 minutes once I find a pump. If I had to I could siphon some gas from another vehicle to keep going. Right now you can't do that sort of thing with an EV.

For now I'd like to see hybrid technology be more common and standardized. You get the best of both worlds while mitigating the negative of both technologies. This is the best way forward for the next 10 years at least.

In my honest opinion I think in about 3-5 years we will see a glut of used EV's on the market that have low value due to the cost of battery replacement and a better understanding of their limitations.

Can't argue that. It's definitely easier to carry gas cans to fill up after 600 miles. We don't really get many hurricanes in Nebraska so we haven't had to do that. Towing will suck in an EV but I don't do that very much other than taking the boat to the lake. It'll also be a while till there are charging stations as prevalent as gas stations. We charge at home except for trips and charging is about potty break fast but it does happen about every 240-260 miles which is fine by me - 3 hours is enough time between stops. LOL. I used to be able to do those marathon trips (Ohio to Utah in 27 hrs) but no more.

I totally agree that hybrids make more sense for long trips, hauling, and times where long range is needed. I'd love it if the 23 Maverick came as a plug-in hybrid with 20-30 miles of electric range... should be just a small 12KwH battery... You don't need a big battery or long range most days. It'd be great to just plug it in and be able to skip the gas station for months between long trips but still have the range and towing of a hybrid. Electrics have a lot less maintenance but the hybrid has advantages as well. Range and refills being two.

 

[gte105u]

Not today. Maybe once a truck that gets 400+ miles per charge, can be charged quickly and costs less than an arm and a leg, I would consider one. Given these criteria, the ultimate answer may be never.

These are the same reasons I won't get one today. Someday that won't be the case, but not sure I'll still be driving at that point (and I'm early 40s so not quite old yet).

I drive 70+ miles a day, frequently over 100, and several hundred mile trips are not unusual. I can't have to work multiple 1 hr plus stops into this when I need to be at a work function. The only way non hybrid electric takes over whole sale is when the range and recharge time is comparable to gas. I know that Musk has said its not practical, but a battery swap system would be HUGE in this department. That doesn't seem to be on anyone's agenda though.

Also the grid and power distribution infrastructure are a long way off from being ready to support full electric (like a really long ways off). See the other thread for a lot on this.

My wife drives so little she is a good fit, but her Altima is paid for and only has 27k miles. Not trading in for $10k to buy a $40k vehicle plus work in our panel at home... to save $500 a year in gas vs electric charge (and I think that is a generous number) . Numbers don't work. It's a decade alone before many of the people in a similar camp with paid for cars are looking to change. And then the choice still may not be to pay a premium for electric if prices don't come down.

A lot is needed to get there. Long term I think it can, but it's not 10-15 years off even at the current rate of innovation IMO.

 

[Timothyd]

That's just one of the many many issues with electric veh. The fact that it takes 40yrs for an EV to become carbon neutral as opposed to 10yrs on a gas veh. Is another.
Then there is the cost of replacing the power source after 8 to 10 yrs. Which starts the whole 40yr neutrality clock over. I keep my veh. 15 to 20ys on average. Then there is the whole bursting in flames thing due to shorting out. The added cost because I can't work on it myself.
No thank you.
I may reconsider if they ever produce a less environmentally damaging, longer range power source that I can change out myself.

I'm gonna be a spectator in all this and watch all the ninnies run around worrying about the sky falling. In regards to this carbon footprint I'm already low. I'm a poor consumer, I'm a lousy tree hugger and between my old 35mpg Miata, my 31.5mpg Buick and my 70mpg bike my fleet average will go up when I replace my gas hog Buick. I'm hoping the Mav lasts a long time.

 

[TyPope]

That's just one of the many many issues with electric veh. The fact that it takes 40yrs for an EV to become carbon neutral as opposed to 10yrs on a gas veh. Is another.
Then there is the cost of replacing the power source after 8 to 10 yrs. Which starts the whole 40yr neutrality clock over. I keep my veh. 15 to 20ys on average. Then there is the whole bursting in flames thing due to shorting out. The added cost because I can't work on it myself.
No thank you.
I may reconsider if they ever produce a less environmentally damaging, longer range power source that I can change out myself.

Wait... how does a vehicle that literally creates carbon every single time it is started ever become carbon neutral? LOL

Factbox: Lifetime carbon emissions of electric vehicles vs gasoline cars | Reuters

13,500 miles is all it takes for a Model 3 to equal a toyota camry in carbon output. worst case is 78,000 miles if all the electric was from a coal fired plant...

 

[MLA62563]

40 years? I suppose if you cherry pick your sources, you could find someone who would agree.

Not to burst any bubbles here, but literally everyone with skin in the game cherry picks their sources. To imagine otherwise is to operate at the very lowest level of awareness.

 

[TyPope]

Not to burst any bubbles here, but literally everyone with skin in the game cherry picks their sources. To imagine otherwise is to operate at the very lowest level of awareness.

True. I try not to cherry pick and use multiple sources (preferably peer-reviewed research) but as an analyst, I may be an exception. As a human, I DO look for things that reaffirm my own personal beliefs. But, don't we all do that to an extent?

 

[Old Ranchero]

let me add a little personal footnote to this: I recently did a round trip from CO to MI and back. It took me through Kansas, Missouri (Kansas people called it Misery, lol) and I found myself on a long KS toll road both ways. The toll road had "Service areas" that were combination Rest Areas and truck stops. They have EV charging stations installed. Going both directions there was not 1 single EV charging! 1 location had a full 10- yes 10 brand new shiny Tesla chargers installed + 2 KS state owned chargers that had multiple cables types and charging options on them. Those 2 were graffiti-ed and vandalized and looked inoperable Not seeing much adoption with that.

 

[MLA62563]

True. I try not to cherry pick and use multiple sources (preferably peer-reviewed research) but as an analyst, I may be an exception. As a human, I DO look for things that reaffirm my own personal beliefs. But, don't we all do that to an extent?

Absolutely. And as an analyst, I'm sure you are aware that a hefty percentage of peer reviewed research is ultimately "proven" incorrect. Until perhaps that determination falls in its turn, that is.

 

[MLA62563]

Wait... how does a vehicle that literally creates carbon every single time it is started ever become carbon neutral? LOL

Factbox: Lifetime carbon emissions of electric vehicles vs gasoline cars | Reuters

13,500 miles is all it takes for a Model 3 to equal a toyota camry in carbon output. worst case is 78,000 miles if all the electric was from a coal fired plant...

I suspect the Reuters "fact"box is working from the starting point of the vehicle having magically popped into existence, taking it from there, and then assuming it will magically vanish into thin air in the end. Thus, focusing on a single factor in an vastly larger equation. That's an assumption of course, but it gives us an idea what we're up against when we try to state anything on this (or any) complex subject definitively. Trying to juggle every possible variable is enough to make one's head spin.

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