2.5L Hybrid - Change to 5W-30 oil

[gaken]

Interesting topic. However, I would be remiss if I didn’t add a couple of comments regarding things that I have observed:

1) To all the doom and gloom crowd saying “how much harder on this engine most 5W30 synthetic oils are going to be” over 0W20 - welcome to the old wives tales club. With few exceptions, the disadvantages long term are going to negligible. In countries with harsher climates than California, (Saudi Arabia/Australia), the “go to” viscosity for most engines START at 5W30 and go upwards. So why are we using 0W20? You can thank your EPA for fuel economy and emissions reasons. The EPA takes no position on engine durability. 5W30 is NOT going to hurt it.

2) Full disclosure, I have already put 210,000 miles on the same Ford 2.5L Hybrid engine before in my previous vehicle. A 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid. In fact, this engine. When I tired of it and traded it in, the engine hadn’t shown any signs of fatigue. I used Motorcraft 5W20 FULL synthetic for the first 100,000 miles @ 5,000-7500 mile intervals. Mobil 1 0W20EP for the final 110,000 miles.

3) For my current ‘22 Maverick Hybrid Lariat, I started out using Mobil 1 0W20 and based on positive word of mouth feedback ran an oil change interval of Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W20 (not the less expensive Pennzoil Platinum). I noticed right away reduced engine noise and slight harshness as compared to what I was used to. Makes sense, because the viscosity at full engine operation temperature (100C) is closer to a 5W30 than the Mobil 1 that I was using. Of course, I have no way of measuring engine wear. Just reporting what even my wife noticed. As I get out of warranty, I probably will go back to Mobil 1. The 5W30EP when out of warranty.

Bottom Line: This 2.5L engine is “Bulletproof.” It is in the 4 cylinder Toyota category of durability. In fact, there are NYC Ford Escape cabs in service with the same engine with 400,000-600,000 miles on them before rebuilding the engine. And you KNOW cab companies just use whatever bulk motor oil they have on hand.

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[Phimosis]

Falsie With FACTS

Just checked 2 thousandths main bearing clearance on ford maverick 2.0 turbo engine. Main bearing clearance on last Big Block chevy I did was also 2 thousands . Sounds really good BUT just isnt true.

I have to ask how many engines have you done??

Ok, so you rebuild engines with performance parts and use 2 thousands clearance where the stock 454 used 3 thousandths. OEM stock had 50% more clearance than what you’re using. And the engines you build will not last as long as the OEM ones did.

Likewise, 2.0 ecoboost high performance builders use .0009” for main bearing clearance, which is significantly tighter clearances that what you use in your performance big blocks.

How many engines have I rebuilt? What are you suggesting, that you have built more 4 cylinder ecoboosts than I have? I’m betting you haven’t. You’ve built zero right? Otherwise you’d know that in an apples to apples, Hi-Po vs Hi-po comparison, or OEM vs OEM comparison, the newer smaller engine still has tighter bearing clearances.

And no, I don’t build engines for a living. But I have pulled a 4 bolt main 302 from a delivery van in a wrecking yard and rebuilt it with forged flat top pistons, oversized 1.94/1.60 SB Chevy valves, 280 duration comp cam, single plenum intake, and a holly 600 double pumper for a 66 Mustang convertible that I had.

just because I don’t do it for a living doesn’t mean I don’t have a clue.

 

[bama1fan]

I have a 2022 Maverick Hybrid with now 70k miles on it. I do my own oil changes and transaxle fluid changes, basically all the typical maintenance. The truck has only ever been at the dealer for warranty or recalls.

I never completely liked the way the 2.5 engine sounds when running. It is basically fine, and it runs great, but there's always been this hint of "harshness".

From the very first oil change (at around 1,600 miles) until recently I have been running the recommended 0W-20 fully synthetic oil, changed at around 6.500 mile intervals. But with my most recent oil change I decided to fill it with synthetic 5W-30 instead.

Turns out: the engine feels and sounds noticeably better with the higher viscosity oil. And as likely most of you: I've been daily driving this thing long enough now that I can tell. It is significant enough that I won't go back to the Ford recommended 0W-20.

So 5W-30 it is going forward.

A few extra thoughts on this:

This engine was a development by Mazda as the "L-series", introduced around 2001 in multiple capacities including a 2.3 (the L3). Around 2008 the 2.5 L5 came out, which is is basically the engine we have in the Maverick Hybrid. At the time Mazda and Ford were cojoined companies and Ford ended up using these engines in various models like the Fusion, Escape, etc. relabeled as their "Duratec" engine.

This engine is used in various markets worldwide, and when you start looking it turns out the oil viscosity specified for this engine varies too: 0W-20, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 5W-40 are some of what I found, depending on average operating ambient temperature.

In the US the only recommended oil for this engine is 0W-20 (irrespective of climate region!), but that almost certainly has to do with legality as related to EPA/fuel economy standards, and is not necessarily what's best for longevity. Many or actually most modern vehicles in the US require 0W-20 oil, or sometimes even thinner: 0W-16 or 0W-8 in for instance the latest Toyota engine families.

These newest engines are likely truly designed for this thin a viscosity, and I'd be more reluctant to switch to much higher viscosity oils in that case as it might "plug things up". But the essentially quarter century old engine in the Maverick Hybrid is in my opinion a different story, it was certainly designed for higher viscosity oils as specified for it in different markets.

After switching to 5W-30 I do appear to be noticing a slight drop in fuel economy. It is marginal, but I have the trip fuel economy reading on the dash pretty well calibrated to be exact, and I noticed an approx. 1 mpg drop on my daily commute over the last couple of weeks. This could just be weather conditions, or other randomness, but it does make sense as this is exactly the reason why 0W-20 is specified in the first place: thinner viscosity oil results in slightly better fuel economy.

Either way, at this point I think that running the Hybrid with 5W-30 will not only be fine, it will likely be better for longevity too.

With the engine now running so nicely, I'm willing to take my chances on it.

Cheers!

Not a very good idea if it is still under warranty. If there’s any damage to the engine running this type of oil would void your warranty. Check your manual.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I wonder if perhaps Mobile 1FS European Car Formula Full synthetic 0W-40... would be a better option as I used it exclusively in my 2013 Mercedes 2.0L turbo (direct injection) I sold at 152K miles for my Maverick. It met and was approved for that Mercedes.

Especially since you're in Texas (Kansas here) and we see more 100+ temps than those northern Yankees..

My 1st change was Mobile 1 and Mobile 1 filter at 1600 miles. I am now at 6501. miles. it's only 6 month old. after picking up my Maverick in Detroit and driving it back to Wichita, Kansas, I wanted to get the break in oil out of the crankcase.. I did 950 miles in 1 shot minus gas and pee breaks. Honed those cylinders 13 hours at 70mph. Then 500 miles about town to see what the hybrid would do city driving.

I would prefer no loss in MPG as I've been so poor all my life, the dog and I still fight over scraps of food. I figure someone may try this 0W-40. I relate MPG to efficiency. I'm conservative not moon bat looney..

In the 13 years I owned that Mercedes, I always used a Mann (German) Filter and in all my vehicles installed a K&N filter.. Actually the K&N was cheaper than the Mercedes filter as the only place you could buy filters (oil-air- cabin) in Wichita Kansas was the dealer.. K&N filters get me 1 more MPG..

I may order one as Kansas dust storms this past weekend are stirring up.

Further down the line, I'd like to see what what tire recommendations people will make.. I am always for more rubber on the road, but not at mpg expense.. The Mercedes I kept Bridgestone Roll flat tires on it. I used to travel interstates for work and out here exits are 40 miles apart, and people get killed changing tires. Retired I"m thinking Michelin when the factory tires come due.. I will be looking for quality, and longevity.

So keep those recommendations posting.. Inquiring minds would like to know..

I replaced my Michelin Primary on my lariat with Continental True Contact Tour 54, UTQ 840 80k milage $175 MSRP. Mpg seems really close. Has the lateral grooves like the primacy. 225/60/18 are h100 the 235/60/18 are about 3 lbs heavier 29.1" diameter h103 load rating.

 

[Shock96]

Just an FYI on rod bearing clearance comparison.

Ford 302 - 0.0008 to 0.0015 in
Duratec 2.5l - 0.001-0.002 in

That is from factory engine build manuals. I couldn't find the Maverick specs. That Duratec number is from the Ford Fusion Hybrid.

You can see the factory rod bearing clearance is ever so slightly more on the 2.5l vs the 302.

 

[Cherokee]

Took a 2008 Tacoma, 2.7 Liter 4 Banger to 528,000 miles. About half those miles were pulling a 2,200 pound single axle 5x8 enclosed trailer, about 50/50 Inner City and Central Florida Interstate miles.
When I was not pulling the trailer I had an average bed cargo load of 600 pounds. I did about 85,000 miles a year In the extremely hot and humid Florida weather. This was most definitely sever duty conditions.

Mobil 1 of the engine manufacturers specifications and a Napa Gold filter at 10,000 mile Intervals. That's
528,000 work miles not pleasure rides or daily commutes with one person and no cargo.
All those hard miles without a single engine Issue.
@ 528K I was losing compression, Imagine that !

Heat transfer is one of the two primary engine oil functions. Do not slow the flow, Your poor engine will think Its constipated :'P

While hot spots develop leading to blow by and oil leaks, It's that simple boyz.

 

[srfdude44]

Not sure where you got your info, but the Atkinson engine in the Mav is a new engine for Ford (not u

I have a 2022 Maverick Hybrid with now 70k miles on it. I do my own oil changes and transaxle fluid changes, basically all the typical maintenance. The truck has only ever been at the dealer for warranty or recalls.

I never completely liked the way the 2.5 engine sounds when running. It is basically fine, and it runs great, but there's always been this hint of "harshness".

From the very first oil change (at around 1,600 miles) until recently I have been running the recommended 0W-20 fully synthetic oil, changed at around 6.500 mile intervals. But with my most recent oil change I decided to fill it with synthetic 5W-30 instead.

Turns out: the engine feels and sounds noticeably better with the higher viscosity oil. And as likely most of you: I've been daily driving this thing long enough now that I can tell. It is significant enough that I won't go back to the Ford recommended 0W-20.

So 5W-30 it is going forward.

A few extra thoughts on this:

This engine was a development by Mazda as the "L-series", introduced around 2001 in multiple capacities including a 2.3 (the L3). Around 2008 the 2.5 L5 came out, which is is basically the engine we have in the Maverick Hybrid. At the time Mazda and Ford were cojoined companies and Ford ended up using these engines in various models like the Fusion, Escape, etc. relabeled as their "Duratec" engine.

This engine is used in various markets worldwide, and when you start looking it turns out the oil viscosity specified for this engine varies too: 0W-20, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 5W-40 are some of what I found, depending on average operating ambient temperature.

In the US the only recommended oil for this engine is 0W-20 (irrespective of climate region!), but that almost certainly has to do with legality as related to EPA/fuel economy standards, and is not necessarily what's best for longevity. Many or actually most modern vehicles in the US require 0W-20 oil, or sometimes even thinner: 0W-16 or 0W-8 in for instance the latest Toyota engine families.

These newest engines are likely truly designed for this thin a viscosity, and I'd be more reluctant to switch to much higher viscosity oils in that case as it might "plug things up". But the essentially quarter century old engine in the Maverick Hybrid is in my opinion a different story, it was certainly designed for higher viscosity oils as specified for it in different markets.

After switching to 5W-30 I do appear to be noticing a slight drop in fuel economy. It is marginal, but I have the trip fuel economy reading on the dash pretty well calibrated to be exact, and I noticed an approx. 1 mpg drop on my daily commute over the last couple of weeks. This could just be weather conditions, or other randomness, but it does make sense as this is exactly the reason why 0W-20 is specified in the first place: thinner viscosity oil results in slightly better fuel economy.

Either way, at this point I think that running the Hybrid with 5W-30 will not only be fine, it will likely be better for longevity too.

With the engine now running so nicely, I'm willing to take my chances on it.

Cheers!


[/QUOT

I have a 2022 Maverick Hybrid with now 70k miles on it. I do my own oil changes and transaxle fluid changes, basically all the typical maintenance. The truck has only ever been at the dealer for warranty or recalls.

I never completely liked the way the 2.5 engine sounds when running. It is basically fine, and it runs great, but there's always been this hint of "harshness".

From the very first oil change (at around 1,600 miles) until recently I have been running the recommended 0W-20 fully synthetic oil, changed at around 6.500 mile intervals. But with my most recent oil change I decided to fill it with synthetic 5W-30 instead.

Turns out: the engine feels and sounds noticeably better with the higher viscosity oil. And as likely most of you: I've been daily driving this thing long enough now that I can tell. It is significant enough that I won't go back to the Ford recommended 0W-20.

So 5W-30 it is going forward.

A few extra thoughts on this:

This engine was a development by Mazda as the "L-series", introduced around 2001 in multiple capacities including a 2.3 (the L3). Around 2008 the 2.5 L5 came out, which is is basically the engine we have in the Maverick Hybrid. At the time Mazda and Ford were cojoined companies and Ford ended up using these engines in various models like the Fusion, Escape, etc. relabeled as their "Duratec" engine.

This engine is used in various markets worldwide, and when you start looking it turns out the oil viscosity specified for this engine varies too: 0W-20, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 5W-40 are some of what I found, depending on average operating ambient temperature.

In the US the only recommended oil for this engine is 0W-20 (irrespective of climate region!), but that almost certainly has to do with legality as related to EPA/fuel economy standards, and is not necessarily what's best for longevity. Many or actually most modern vehicles in the US require 0W-20 oil, or sometimes even thinner: 0W-16 or 0W-8 in for instance the latest Toyota engine families.

These newest engines are likely truly designed for this thin a viscosity, and I'd be more reluctant to switch to much higher viscosity oils in that case as it might "plug things up". But the essentially quarter century old engine in the Maverick Hybrid is in my opinion a different story, it was certainly designed for higher viscosity oils as specified for it in different markets.

After switching to 5W-30 I do appear to be noticing a slight drop in fuel economy. It is marginal, but I have the trip fuel economy reading on the dash pretty well calibrated to be exact, and I noticed an approx. 1 mpg drop on my daily commute over the last couple of weeks. This could just be weather conditions, or other randomness, but it does make sense as this is exactly the reason why 0W-20 is specified in the first place: thinner viscosity oil results in slightly better fuel economy.

Either way, at this point I think that running the Hybrid with 5W-30 will not only be fine, it will likely be better for longevity too.

With the engine now running so nicely, I'm willing to take my chances on it.

Cheers!

Not sure where you got your info re the 2.5 Atkinson engine used in the Mav hybrid, but it is absolutely not the Mazda Duratec. It was developed for this hybrid use, and works well in that use.

 

[Mark dSF]

Good hardcore info here, but clearly still a theological bent in the two camps. IMO, coming from the days of 20-40 in American engines in desert heat, you guys are counting angels at 0-20 vs 5-20 synthetic as far as harm goes. I'll probably go for the 5-20 here in NNM, and I'm glad the constant load from the hybrid drivetrain lets the engine purr along and not deal with hard acceleration, where most of the wear occurs in ICE.

 

[GmanGM]

I would never own or even ride in a Prius, Ever.
I’d feel I was disrespecting the entire automotive Industry.
:’P

Felt that way for years but the newer ones look great and mpg even better - if I wanted a small car they would now be of interest to me.

 

[Phimosis]

Felt that way for years but the newer ones look great and mpg even better - if I wanted a small car they would now be of interest to me.

I live a work in LA. I always had nice cars like a Range Rover Sport and a 911, then a Cayenne turbo and an Audi R8. I’d show up at the job site looking like Tony Stark.

Then in 2015, my employer started sending me up to NAWS China Lake twice a week.

The trip is 140 miles each way. I went from 10k miles annually to 37k miles annually.

I went from getting cheap leases on new luxury cars for low rates because of my low annual mileage, to needing a burner car, a high-mile appliance that I could drive into the ground for the lowest price possible.

And that was the beginning of my Prius phase of life. . It was the only sensible thing to do.

I’ve been doing that for over 10 years. 3 years ago I “graduated” to a cheap, used EV and got roof top solar. Now I do my 27k mile annual work commute using free electricity.

 

[Robot-Wrangler]

I doubt it will hurt the engine, you'll just get worse fuel economy. My dealer puts in 5W-20 unless you pay extra for full synthetic, and a drop in MPG is the only difference I notice when I forget to ask for the factory recommended stuff.

It's unusual for a Ford dealer to use any oil other than what is called for. I've never heard of one even doing it by request. Very odd.

 

[Robot-Wrangler]

I live a work in LA. I always had nice cars like a Range Rover Sport and a 911, then a Cayenne turbo and an Audi R8. I’d show up at the job site looking like Tony Stark.

Then in 2015, my employer started sending me up to NAWS China Lake twice a week.

The trip is 140 miles each way. I went from 10k miles annually to 37k miles annually.

I went from getting cheap leases on new luxury cars for low rates because of my low annual mileage, to needing a burner car, a high-mile appliance that I could drive into the ground for the lowest price possible.

And that was the beginning of my Prius phase of life. . It was the only sensible thing to do.

I’ve been doing that for over 10 years. 3 years ago I “graduated” to a cheap, used EV and got roof top solar. Now I do my 27k mile annual work commute using free electricity.

So a rooftop solar panel (perhaps 180w) is enough current inverted to 120vac to produce consistent charging? A used EV with reduced battery capacity and range at that. Wow. I'm surprised. What's next, cars that run on love?

 

[oysterville]

I worry that people who come into these conversations looking for advice will put more value in the "I do the same thing for my modern engine as I did for my 39 Buick" than just the comedic value that they are.

 

[icegradner]

It's unusual for a Ford dealer to use any oil other than what is called for. I've never heard of one even doing it by request. Very odd.

Seem to be the norm with dealers in my area, across brands, they always charge more if you want full synthetic, even if that is the factory approved oil. Most people never read the owners manual, so dealers get away with it. They charge an extra $40 for full synthetic at most dealerships, they don't call them stealerships for nothing.

 

[HeyBales]

It's unusual for a Ford dealer to use any oil other than what is called for. I've never heard of one even doing it by request. Very odd.

You for sure have not read enough posts around here then.
All kinds of stories of them using mix not straight synthetic unless a person remembered to state that.

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