2.5L Hybrid - Change to 5W-30 oil

[CajunMick]

Lots of discussions on the oil. But not much if oils blend or full synthetic variety. ?
Or will it make any difference?

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[Shelbyv8]

The only thing that is used from the original Mazda engine is the bare block. The rest of the engine is different to get the Atkinson design. I think I will stick with what the engineers recommend.

 

[TheSEARCH]

I will stay with the recommended oil. BUT this fallacy of newer engines and tighter tolerance is just that . A fallacy.

Built many engines over the years most at dealer some race engines too in my drag race days Tolerance were always very tight. And yes 4 valve over head cams existed then too. But the V-8's were still mostly pushrod.

 

[Russ P]

I have a 2022 Maverick Hybrid with now 70k miles on it. I do my own oil changes and transaxle fluid changes, basically all the typical maintenance. The truck has only ever been at the dealer for warranty or recalls.

I never completely liked the way the 2.5 engine sounds when running. It is basically fine, and it runs great, but there's always been this hint of "harshness".

From the very first oil change (at around 1,600 miles) until recently I have been running the recommended 0W-20 fully synthetic oil, changed at around 6.500 mile intervals. But with my most recent oil change I decided to fill it with synthetic 5W-30 instead.

Turns out: the engine feels and sounds noticeably better with the higher viscosity oil. And as likely most of you: I've been daily driving this thing long enough now that I can tell. It is significant enough that I won't go back to the Ford recommended 0W-20.

So 5W-30 it is going forward.

A few extra thoughts on this:

This engine was a development by Mazda as the "L-series", introduced around 2001 in multiple capacities including a 2.3 (the L3). Around 2008 the 2.5 L5 came out, which is is basically the engine we have in the Maverick Hybrid. At the time Mazda and Ford were cojoined companies and Ford ended up using these engines in various models like the Fusion, Escape, etc. relabeled as their "Duratec" engine.

This engine is used in various markets worldwide, and when you start looking it turns out the oil viscosity specified for this engine varies too: 0W-20, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 5W-40 are some of what I found, depending on average operating ambient temperature.

In the US the only recommended oil for this engine is 0W-20 (irrespective of climate region!), but that almost certainly has to do with legality as related to EPA/fuel economy standards, and is not necessarily what's best for longevity. Many or actually most modern vehicles in the US require 0W-20 oil, or sometimes even thinner: 0W-16 or 0W-8 in for instance the latest Toyota engine families.

These newest engines are likely truly designed for this thin a viscosity, and I'd be more reluctant to switch to much higher viscosity oils in that case as it might "plug things up". But the essentially quarter century old engine in the Maverick Hybrid is in my opinion a different story, it was certainly designed for higher viscosity oils as specified for it in different markets.

After switching to 5W-30 I do appear to be noticing a slight drop in fuel economy. It is marginal, but I have the trip fuel economy reading on the dash pretty well calibrated to be exact, and I noticed an approx. 1 mpg drop on my daily commute over the last couple of weeks. This could just be weather conditions, or other randomness, but it does make sense as this is exactly the reason why 0W-20 is specified in the first place: thinner viscosity oil results in slightly better fuel economy.

Either way, at this point I think that running the Hybrid with 5W-30 will not only be fine, it will likely be better for longevity too.

With the engine now running so nicely, I'm willing to take my chances on it.

Cheers!

I disagree, Just my option. My 1st oil change im using Ams oil 0-20

 

[Carlitos_92]

Interesting timing. Just yesterday I accidentally put 5W-30 in my son's Fusion 2.5, and it also normally recommends 5W-20.

Here is Amsoil's take...
https://blog.amsoil.com/what-happens-if-i-use-the-wrong-weight-viscosity-of-oil/

We will go back to 5W-20 at the next change, but I always use full synthetic, and we are headed into spring in a hot climate, so I’m not too worried about it.

As far as permanently changing to a thicker oil just for NVH, I wouldn't, but people do a lot of stuff with oil I wouldn't. No big deal. Good luck with it.

 

[Oscarcat]

I would never own or even ride in a Prius, Ever.
I’d feel I was disrespecting the entire automotive Industry.
:’P

At least my neighbor’s Prius never backfires which spooks my horse pulling my buggy -

 

[Phimosis]

In the US the only recommended oil for this engine is 0W-20 (irrespective of climate region!), but that almost certainly has to do with legality as related to EPA/fuel economy standards, and is not necessarily what's best for longevity. Many or actually most modern vehicles in the US require 0W-20 oil, or sometimes even thinner: 0W-16 or 0W-8 in for instance the latest Toyota engine families.

Nope. Thicker oil than recommended is not what is best for the engine.

let’s take this out to the extreme: What would happen if you ran 20w50 in the 2.5 L Maverick, like what people ran in 60’s muscle cars?

Because of the increased viscosity, the oil pressure would go through the roof, which can shorten the life expectancy of bearings and will probably lead to premature oil pump failure because it’s doubling the load on the pump.

Engines in the 1960’s had larger oil galleys and looser bearing tolerances. They needed more viscous oil to maintain adequate oil pressure.

Modern engines have smaller oil galleys and tighter bearing tolerances. They NEED a thin oil to maintain adequate flow of lubrication. A very viscous oil will restrict the flow through the smaller passages, reducing the volume of oil that is flowed, which reduces heat transfer away from the bearings, leading to higher bearing surface temperatures, premature thermal degradation of the oil and premature wear (scoring, smearing and blackening) of bearing surfaces.

If you put 20w-50 in the Maverick hybrid, you’d literally be playing Russian roulette with the engine.

So what about 5W-30? It might be just fine. It’s not that extreme. Would I use 5W30? Nope. I’d stick with the manufacturer recommendation.

I ran 0W-20 in 2 Priuses for over 300K miles in SoCal, going from LA to high desert, climbing from near sea level to 3,600 ft elevation every day on cruise control set at 80 mph. That trip would see at least 5 minutes at wide open throttle, 5,500 rpm in temps up to 115 F. The first one failed at 185k miles from a cracked head. The second one was sold at 135k miles to get an EV. But they took huge amounts of abuse with 0W-20.

 

[am_fm_radio]

I wonder if perhaps Mobile 1FS European Car Formula Full synthetic 0W-40... would be a better option as I used it exclusively in my 2013 Mercedes 2.0L turbo (direct injection) I sold at 152K miles for my Maverick. It met and was approved for that Mercedes.

Especially since you're in Texas (Kansas here) and we see more 100+ temps than those northern Yankees..

My 1st change was Mobile 1 and Mobile 1 filter at 1600 miles. I am now at 6501. miles. it's only 6 month old. after picking up my Maverick in Detroit and driving it back to Wichita, Kansas, I wanted to get the break in oil out of the crankcase.. I did 950 miles in 1 shot minus gas and pee breaks. Honed those cylinders 13 hours at 70mph. Then 500 miles about town to see what the hybrid would do city driving.

I would prefer no loss in MPG as I've been so poor all my life, the dog and I still fight over scraps of food. I figure someone may try this 0W-40. I relate MPG to efficiency. I'm conservative not moon bat looney..

In the 13 years I owned that Mercedes, I always used a Mann (German) Filter and in all my vehicles installed a K&N filter.. Actually the K&N was cheaper than the Mercedes filter as the only place you could buy filters (oil-air- cabin) in Wichita Kansas was the dealer.. K&N filters get me 1 more MPG..

I may order one as Kansas dust storms this past weekend are stirring up.

Further down the line, I'd like to see what what tire recommendations people will make.. I am always for more rubber on the road, but not at mpg expense.. The Mercedes I kept Bridgestone Roll flat tires on it. I used to travel interstates for work and out here exits are 40 miles apart, and people get killed changing tires. Retired I"m thinking Michelin when the factory tires come due.. I will be looking for quality, and longevity.

So keep those recommendations posting.. Inquiring minds would like to know..

 

[Brianx]

My first car was a 49 Chevy I bought in 1958 for $72. It took 60 oil to quieten the engine after about a year it took 90 weight. To start it in cold weather had to step on pedal six times and count to seven slowly then turn key. Starter could crank it far enough to fire the first cylinder which then started the engine. One cold morning it broke the block. Sold it to classmate for $85 who had an engine. I then scrounged up $340 and got a 1956 Plymouth that I drove through high school.

I'm sure you had to use the choke as well.

 

[d7602002]

I say do what you want as it's your car. I mean if it was still under warranty, I probably wouldn't otherwise they might not cover repair just because they'd say you used the wrong oil, but now that it's out of warranty what the hell. And if it does somehow damage something and the engine fails, just buy a new one and don't use the different oil.

 

[AVC]

Folklore and the anecdotal aside, I had oil analysis done on the dealer 0w-20 last year--at 10k mi on the oil- and it was very good to excellent on all points (see related thread). I have 5w-30 (full synthetic) in it now and approaching the 10k interval (April, I think). Plan to have that oil analyzed as well. Hoping for somewhat better total metal ppm (under 5ppm/1000mi). I won't be dismayed if it is the same or even somewhat worse, in which case, I'll try 5w-20.

Also a big grunt to those who use 20w-50 or something like that for strawman arguments against deviating in any way from OEM viscosity recommendations. 5w-30 isn't a dramatic difference anyway.

As for smoothness; I too observed a somewhat quieter engine w/ 5w-30 in the Fall and Winter, which I wasn't surprised by, given past experimentation with viscosity with other vehicles. It IS a tad bit lumpier transitioning from electric to ICE when the engine is cold, but once up to temp, the transition is nearly undetectable from seat of the pants as before, but of course still noticeable as the ICE exhaust makes noise.

 

[Phimosis]

I will stay with the recommended oil. BUT this fallacy of newer engines and tighter tolerance is just that . A fallacy.

Built many engines over the years most at dealer some race engines too in my drag race days Tolerance were always very tight. And yes 4 valve over head cams existed then too. But the V-8's were still mostly pushrod.

The bearing clearance is a function of journal diameter, typically 0.001 inches of clearance per inch of journal diameter.

As materials science has improved, bearing journals have become smaller. A smaller crank pin or connecting rod, due to using a more advanced material, will lead to less mass, less vibration, less parasitic drag and lower manufacturing costs.

Bearing journals have also become smaller as engine displacements have gotten smaller.

Miniaturized engines = smaller bearings = tighter clearances.

But that is only 1 aspect that has lead to the use of low viscosity oil in modern engines.
The other is the diameter of the oil passages in the engine block and the diameter of the oil spray holes at the bearings. In fluid dynamics, a higher viscosity fluid means greater resistance to flow, while a larger diameter tube reduces resistance.

Modern 4 cylinders have oil passages that are half the diameter of the V8’s of yesteryear. To achieve the same flow rate through a smaller tube, you have to either increase the pressure, or decrease the viscosity.

 

[CajunMick]

For my 2.0 EB, had 3 oil samples. Engine has 5,3xx miles now. The OEM oil had good viscosity reading. Did oil change twice, to 5W-30 Motorcraft blend. Samples revealed low viscosity AND shear. 2nd chsnge and its sample revealed again, low viscosity and shear. The shear is alarming. Changed to full synthetic Motorcraft. The long hot summer coming soon. Intend to drive to 1300-1500 miles on this oil, pull sample see how that measures up. Better be better viscosity and little or no shear. If get bum numbers on this MC full synthetic, gonna junk the Motorcraft brand.

 

[TheSEARCH]

The bearing clearance is a function of journal diameter, typically 0.001 inches of clearance per inch of journal diameter.

As materials science has improved, bearing journals have become smaller. A smaller crank pin or connecting rod, due to using a more advanced material, will lead to less mass, less vibration, less parasitic drag and lower manufacturing costs.

Bearing journals have also become smaller as engine displacements have gotten smaller.

Miniaturized engines = smaller bearings = tighter clearances.

But that is only 1 aspect that has lead to the use of low viscosity oil in modern engines.
The other is the diameter of the oil passages in the engine block and the diameter of the oil spray holes at the bearings. In fluid dynamics, a higher viscosity fluid means greater resistance to flow, while a larger diameter tube reduces resistance.

Modern 4 cylinders have oil passages that are half the diameter of the V8’s of yesteryear. To achieve the same flow rate through a smaller tube, you have to either increase the pressure, or decrease the viscosity.

Falsie With FACTS

Just checked 2 thousandths main bearing clearance on ford maverick 2.0 turbo engine. Main bearing clearance on last Big Block chevy I did was also 2 thousands . Sounds really good BUT just isnt true.

I have to ask how many engines have you done??

 

[Dave O]

I’m no chemist or certified mechanic but I do make delicious cocktails I will stick to the manufacturer recommendations until my warranty is over once I consider my Engine has some age and wear on it I plan to do an Arnold Palmer and go half and half - 0W-20 / 5W-30 both same brand and preferably Mobil One Synthetic now that’s a cocktail I can live with

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