Question on fire risk recall

[r8drskullz]

Have you read this thread? there are 3 documented cases, if that is an issue for you, that is the problem. the problitily of you having an issue is sooo small. But you are a raider fan, aren't you supposed to be rough and tough?

Problem is not sure what exactly going since I seen so many ? Here on the issue. But thanks

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[Criss944]

"Isolated engine manufacturing" issues occurred building the hybrid engines. There were specific issues they were having building the engines to spec. Because of that, there's a slightly elevated chance of the engine itself failing. Engine failing via "block breach" essentially means the engine cracks open in a way that can spray hot oil/gasoline onto other hot parts of the engine bay. Thus, fire.

Any engine failure leading to fire is made worse in a hybrid/PHEV. Why? Because if you just had the engine, when it failed and stopped giving you power when pressing the gas pedal, you'd have to stop driving, hopefully turn it off. You'd be coasting with no engine power.

With a hybrid, the electric motor can continue to move the vehicle even after the engine fails. What that means is that the engine has failed, it's spraying oil/gasoline on hot surfaces and starting to ignite. You don't notice this at first because the vehicle still responds to the gas pedal - on electric power only. Or, you notice a reduction in power but don't immediately realize it means the engine's gone. Thus, you keep driving along as the fire spreads and only pull over when either the battery depletes or you notice smoke/flames billowing from under the hood.

The longer you keep driving after engine failure, the greater the (risk of) danger to you.

All of this is only in the (to date rather rare) chance that the engine does fail. None of this means that they all will fail, based on available data.

I believe the build problem related to the hybrid engine was corrected early 22. The recall includes vehicles build well after the build problem was idented and correct.

You provided a very complete summary of the problem. However, you did not answer my question. Are hybrids engines built since the spring of 22 more prone to failure than EcoBoost?

 

[jsus]

I believe the build problem related to the hybrid engine was corrected early 22. The recall includes vehicles build well after the build problem was idented and correct.

You provided a very complete summary of the problem. However, you did not answer my question. Are hybrids engines built since the spring of 22 more prone to failure than EcoBoost?

Come again? This was the question asked and answered. So now you're asking a new question. Nothing wrong with that, just say so.

I just reread recall 23S27/23V380 and something was unclear to me. Is the hybrid at more of a risk of engine failure than the Eco boost or is there just a risk of a fire if there is an engine failure?

They are more likely to fail due to the manufacturing issues. Being a hybrid, the outcome is potentially worse than if an EB failed due to as yet unknown defects.

Further, the "robustness actions" were completed as of September 1, 2022. Late summer/early fall, not spring. The main concern is the build date of the engine.

 

[Criss944]

Come again? This was the question asked and answered.



They are more likely to fail due to the manufacturing issues. Being a hybrid, the outcome is potentially worse than if an EB failed due to as yet unknown defects.

Further, the "robustness actions" were completed as of September 1, 2022. Late summer/early fall, not spring.

So now you're asking a new question. Nothing wrong with that, just say so.

Are you saying the engine manufacturing issues were not corrected?

 

[jsus]

Are you saying the engine manufacturing issues were not corrected?

No...?

Per Ford, the "robustness actions" on the engine assembly line were completed by Sept 1, 2022.

Per Ford, at time of issuing recall 23S27, no engines built after that date had failed/caught fire.

The known manufacturing issues reportedly started at launch in 2019 (for Escape/Maverick Hybrid only at that point, until Corsair GT, Maverick Hybrid launched) and lasted through Sept 1, 2022. This is what Ford says, not me.

 

[clavicus]

No...?

Per Ford, the "robustness actions" on the engine assembly line were completed by Sept 1, 2022.

Per Ford, at time of issuing recall 23S27, no engines built after that date had failed/caught fire.

The known manufacturing issues reportedly started at launch in 2019 (for Escape/Maverick Hybrid only at that point, until Corsair GT, Maverick Hybrid launched) and lasted through Sept 1, 2022. This is what Ford says, not me.

The first week of hybrid builds started September 13th 2022 [edit: 2021 i mean] (ah the old days — mine was on the line that week). I guess they created the engine components earlier than that though.

 

[jsus]

The first week of hybrid builds started September 13th 2022 (ah the old days — mine was on the line that week). I guess they created the engine components earlier than that though.

Yes, it would've taken time for the engines to work their way into production.

Not sure it would've taken until May 2023, but that's what the recall says...

 

[BuddyS]

Some on here need to read the Recall, before providing advice:
1) It says on mine that the earliest for PARTS TO BE AVAILABLE from supplier will be August... that's 4 months from now. Certainly hope Ford puts priority on recalls versus new production.

1% is pretty low odds for a failure; and a pretty good poker hand. Not panicking, not stupid, not selling my Maverick, but have stuck 2 Amazon Fire Extinguishers in the back floorboard. And will keep my 5,000 mile road trip next month but 'tis frustrating.

Are you using the Mayan calendar? 4 months from July 1 is November.

Just busting your chops. I'd say don't stress to much about the road trip. I just did 3K miles in 6 days, mostly at high-speeds on 1-95 and the truck didn't miss a beat. I suspect you'll be fine.

 

[Criss944]

No...?

Per Ford, the "robustness actions" on the engine assembly line were completed by Sept 1, 2022.

Per Ford, at time of issuing recall 23S27, no engines built after that date had failed/caught fire.

The known manufacturing issues reportedly started at launch in 2019 (for Escape/Maverick Hybrid only at that point, until Corsair GT, Maverick Hybrid launched) and lasted through Sept 1, 2022. This is what Ford says, not me.

Thank you! It never dawned on me ford was using engines of unknown quality after issuing 22S47.

 

[Darnon]

However, you did not answer my question. Are hybrids engines built since the spring of 22 more prone to failure than EcoBoost?

Ford doesn't really publicize the incidence on engine failures in general, but the rate of 0.17/1000 units was apparently statistically significant enough to initiate action with the first recall.

 

[Edge Haley]

make that October, 2023 - 4 months.

 

[jsus]

Thank you! It never dawned on me ford was using engines of unknown quality after issuing 22S47.

They were still working through the manufacturing issues when 22S47 was issued. They'd hoped that 22S47 would prevent fires on the existing engines already on the road should they fail, while they focused on building better engines.

Then they found out that when engines fail with 22S47 implemented, they still catch fire. Thus, 23S27 and an unspecified fix coming later this year.

22S47 only focuses on preventing a fire if the engine does fail, not preventing it from failing. 23S27 will likely do the same...

 

[jsus]

Ford doesn't really publicize the incidence on engine failures in general, but the rate of 0.17/1000 units was apparently statistically significant enough to initiate action with the first recall.

And per what Ford filed with NHTSA, they're being even more proactive with this engine because it's used in hybrids and plug-in hybrids. We may have never heard of the same issue if it affected the EBs, given how relatively rare it is. But with the EB, you'd know right away there was a problem, you couldn't keep driving on electric only with reduced power.

It only took a few more fires on vehicles with 22S47 implemented before they acknowledged the need to do more to prevent engine failure from leading to fire. Turns out adding a bit of ventilation as such isn't a terribly effective solution...

Overall, it's quite rare, it's just that you really don't want anyone's engine burning up the whole vehicle.

 

[Edge Haley]

The first week of hybrid builds started September 13th 2022 (ah the old days — mine was on the line that week). I guess they created the engine components earlier than that though.

My Hybrid was built last week of Nov 2021, shipped Dec 2021, and delivered Jan 4th, 2022.

 

[Darnon]

And per what Ford filed with NHTSA, they're being even more proactive with this engine because it's used in hybrids and plug-in hybrids. We may have never heard of the same issue if it affected the EBs, given how relatively rare it is. But with the EB, you'd know right away there was a problem, you couldn't keep driving on electric only with reduced power.

Probably because they also have a few other serious underhood fire recalls such as the 1.5L cracked fuel injectors which have something like twice the occurance rate (0.38/1000 units)

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