New EV 7,500 rebate could it change people from ordering now?

[Yoliber]

So some things to note. Ford would be running out of the current credits by the time the maverick plugin would be released. The maverick plugin will also most likely get the 13.8 kWh battery the escape gets, so it would yield under $7500 like the escape.

The new tax credit policy has multiple pre requisites.

First... these new plugin vehicles qualify if they are made in USMCA and have a minimum 7 kWh or else it would not be considered for the next 2 points.

Second... The battery must be mined in a free trade country. If it is you get $3750

Third... The battery must be assembled in a free trade country. This gets you $3750.

Points 2 and 3 are independent of each other, but both dependent on point 1.

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[Bob The Builder]

Until you drive one and realize it is superior. The argument they are worse for the environment is pure BS mostly put out by people/groups that don't want or are just afraid of change - or have a political agenda that involves keeping oil companies happy.

Well, let's look at all this for a second. In an effort to keep this part of the discussion simple, let's focus on two talking points. The strip mining of the raw materials and the source of the electricity used to charge your EV. Currently, there is only one strip mining operation going right now in Nevada. Other have tried to open more but the greenies block it every time, preferring to defer to strip mining operations in third world countries that have much less regulations and are much harsher on the environment. Seems a bit of a double standard to me. As for the source of electricity, unless it is from renewables the EV is polluting. Electricity from a coal or oil fired generating station solves nothing

EV buyers DO pay extra taxes because they are MORE EXPENSIVE. EV's are coming and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Embrace them, don't fight them

Yes they do, but in sales taxes not in road use taxes. This would be different to each state, but in mine sales taxes do not go directly to infrastructure, it goes into the general fund. Road use taxes are what funds road and bridge upkeep. YMMV.

As to the new incentives, the main thing to understand is that they already exist today. This "new" bit just extends them instead of allowing them to expire or deplete as currently written into law. A lot of brands were going to mature out of the program as sales were limited to 100,000 vehicles per brand. Now they can keep rolling for a while longer. Nothing new here, just more of what we have now.

In a capitalist free enterprise society a product should be able to stand on its own merits. In my 45 years of electrical contracting, Uncle Sugar never subsidized me. Now mind you I never asked nor expected it so maybe that is on me. EV's may well be the wave of the future but as they stand now with mediocre range and rising electricity prices they currently are a niche product. All my friends who currently own an EV do so as a second commuter grocery getter. It stays in the garage on long trips, the owners preferring to write off the higher travel expenses to the convenience of driving through to the destination and getting there sooner.

Items not addressed in my response involve the strain imposed on household service entrances when two or more 240V 50A electrical circuits are needed. There was never a need to oversize an electrical service. It is sized on 120% of expected load requirements at the time of building based on National Electrical Code specifications with a 100A minimum. How are two 50A plugs ins going to work on a 100A service or even a 200A for that matter? One does not need to be a Master Electrician such as myself to understand these numbers are very problematic.

Utility grid upgrades required if suddenly all those households start drawing 100A @ 240V all at the same time overnight. Suddenly all those little 4160 Volts 3 KVA pole transformers are going to look awful tiny and the upgrades will be required all the way back to the main substations or further. In some cases all the way back to the generating source.

 

[mtd14]

agree. If EVs are the 'big thing' now then what's the need for a 7500 incentive? It's either a big thing or it's not.

That’s pretty easy to answer - developing new technology is expensive. EVs are the next big things since they’re better for you, me, and future generations. If someone could snap their fingers and have the charging infrastructure in place alongside a mature supply chain and engineering, gas vehicles would be irrelevant. If you need actual reasons why it’s beneficial, feel free to read this https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_benefits.html

However, that’s not the case. But we can accelerate things by increasing demand. The general population (77%) favors this, so we’re continuing with it.

 

[Bobinmi]

The lightning price increase gobbled up the ENTIRE rebate...

 

[Maverstang]

… In a capitalist free enterprise society a product should be able to stand on its own merits….

Yeah, but let’s be honest: The oil industry has benefited from massive incentives, including tax credits, special exemptions, government support, land use, and even military adventures for the better part of a century.

The US government is massively interventionist in the economy for any industry segment considered “strategic”, as are most countries.

 

[Timothyd]

Electric is arguably still worse for the environment , they should have to pay extra taxes, rather than get incentives.

They're going to have to for road repairs.

 

[pigsareus]

That’s pretty easy to answer - developing new technology is expensive. EVs are the next big things since they’re better for you, me, and future generations. If someone could snap their fingers and have the charging infrastructure in place alongside a mature supply chain and engineering, gas vehicles would be irrelevant. If you need actual reasons why it’s beneficial, feel free to read this https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_benefits.html

However, that’s not the case. But we can accelerate things by increasing demand. The general population (77%) favors this, so we’re continuing with it.

yeah well it's not much of an incentive when the manufacturers are just going to factor in that 7500 bucks when they up their prices, now they know the new rules of the game. Fooling the buyer into thinking they're getting 7500 off a vehicle that is likely going to be artifically increased by a similar amount doesn't incentivive anyone - or anyone who figures this out. The idea is to get the price of the vehicles LOWER, not higher.

 

[LushRoller]

How much merit is there to the idea that PHEVs only benefit you if you are able to charge them regularly? If you live in an apartment or otherwise would have difficulty charging them regularly, the increased range on the electric motor may do you no good as I understand it. Also, you will be carrying the extra weight of having more battery without taking full advantage of it in this case.

That said, I'd imagine most people at least could find an outlet to charge their PHEV. If I didn't have to rely on a dying vehicles I'd probably wait for the PHEV version of the Maverick, especially since my daily commute is pretty short. I'm open to hearing the potential downsides of the PHEV version though, and even the regular hybrid will be a big upgrade for me.

 

[palmtreefrb]

So if the standard deduction is lower than my itemized deductions. Do I loose the tax $7500 credit?

 

[pigsareus]

So if the standard deduction is lower than my itemized deductions. Do I loose the tax $7500 credit?

Nah, it's a credit and doesn't have anything to do with deductions. As long as your actual income is at or below the threshold that is set you get the 7500.

 

[dadd75]

According to Consumer Reports, these are the only vehicles, as of this time, to qualify for the new $7500 tax credit:

• Cadillac Lyriq (only if it is classified as an SUV)
• Chevrolet Blazer EV
• Chevrolet Bolt
• Chevrolet Bolt EUV
• Chevrolet Silverado EV (with certain options and trim levels)
• Ford F-150 Lightning (with certain options and trim levels)
• Ford Mustang Mach-E
• Nissan Leaf
• Rivian R1S (with certain options and trim levels)
• Rivian R1T (with certain options and trim levels)
• Tesla Cybertruck (with certain options and trim levels)
• Tesla Model 3 (with certain options and trim levels)
• Tesla Model Y (only if it is classified as an SUV, and only with certain options and trim levels)
• Volkswagen ID.4 (only 2023+ models made in Tennessee)

Here’s why
Democrats who wrote the bill wanted to accomplish two goals with the EV subsidies: 1) spur electric vehicle adoption to reduce emissions and 2) incentivize automakers to establish more of their supply chains in the US or in allied countries—cutting unpredictable rival China out of the equation.

So, to qualify for the credit, EVs would need to…

• Be assembled in North America—a provision that will kick in immediately after President Biden signs the law.
• Have at least 50% of components in its battery come from North America by 2024, and 100% by 2028. EVS are also going to need to meet new sourcing thresholds for minerals in batteries.

 

[stoptothink]

How much merit is there to the idea that PHEVs only benefit you if you are able to charge them regularly? If you live in an apartment or otherwise would have difficulty charging them regularly, the increased range on the electric motor may do you no good as I understand it. Also, you will be carrying the extra weight of having more battery without taking full advantage of it in this case.

A lot. If you do not have access to home/work chargers or regularly drive more than the EV range, you are probably better off (financially) with a FHEV. There is generally about ~120lbs. weight difference between a plug-in and FHEV; not substantial, but it does make some difference in efficiency when you are running on the ICE. In our situation (majority of our miles are on long road trips and wife's 2x/week 60 mile commute), it would have taken several decades to make up the upfront cost difference between a plug-in and FHEV. Little chance we would have seriously considered a plug-in Maverick.

For us, the ideal balance would be a small commuter EV with limited range (100 miles would be plenty, and we can charge from home) for day-to-day and a larger FHEV road-tripper (our Maverick).

 

[ITSATRUCK]

Manufacturers will just raise the price to match the tax rebate. Unless Chinese EVs can flood the market significantly cheaper.

The best way to protect North American manufacturing would be tariffs like the chicken tax but for EV instead of trucks.

Nothing wrong with protecting domestic manufacturing. We need more of it.

 

[NJBob]

That was true before, however, based on what I’ve read, once the bill passes and is signed, the new incentive will be an actual rebate deducted at the time of purchase.

I think it is taken off at the time of purchase. However it is still a tax break. If you don't pay alot of taxes you may not qualify for the tax break. May have to pay it back.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Plug-ins do not, and assume, will not qualify for the full $7500 tax incentive. Plus, as written, no car in production today will qualify for the incentive due to constraints of material from China, as well as limits on sale price. Also, I believe the current tax incentive ends the moment the bill is signed into law, followed by the new rebates being for vehicles sold after Dec. 31 this year.

This is Congress so of course they write bills that rarely work as expected.

As I understand it you can place a FIRM ORDER WITH A CO-SIGNED SALES AGREEMENT WITH A DEALER BEFORE THE NEW BILL IS SIGNED AND MAINTAIN THE CURRENT REBATE REGARDLESS IF THE DELIVERY DATE!

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