Engine Operating Temperature Cold

[hdave]

Hi Guys

I was driving around for about 40 minutes yesterday (all city driving), and even towards the end of my trip the engine never reached operating temperature, it kept dropping when I turned on the cabin heat.
It was around 32F outside which isn't even that cold yet.

I also did a test near the end of my trip where the engine temperature would climb and be fine, then I'd turn on the cabin heat and it would drop to near cold within a minute.

My understanding is that some of the active shutters were forced into open position because of the engine fire issue. I am thinking of using something to cover that area similar to what I did in my 2012 Lexus CT (~ Prius) in the winter.

What are your thoughts on this situation?

Thanks

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[hdave]

Ok that makes sense.

I was under the impression that it needs to be in the middle of the operating temperature area but if it’s OK to drop near the bottom end it is doing its job.

thanks a lot for the detailed explanation.

It's a hybrid, it's designed to run cold because running hot means wasted energy, means wasted gas, means wasted money.

A typical ICE vehicle will run the engine full time (exceptions around things like engine start/stop when stopped at a red light). Thus, the midpoint on the temp gauge is its "normal" operating temperature; you expect that it will warm up to that point and stay there. This is also rather inefficient - much of the gas you are burning just gets converted to heat that is lost to the environment.

If a hybrid were to target the same normal operating temps, then it, too, would have to run constantly in cold weather, even when not otherwise needed. That would defeat the purpose of the hybrid powertrain. Instead, it has a lower temperature that it needs to maintain in order to shut off the engine and run electric only. That keeps the engine warm enough for it to start up again when needed. There is a slightly higher minimum shutoff temp when commanding cabin heat - cabin heat is siphoned off the engine/coolant. This does mean that it will drop down to the low end of the temperature gauge, around the first line. Of course, if driving conditions warrant running the ICE more (e.g. 100 km/h on a freeway), then it is designed to level out in the middle of the temp gauge.

TLDR this is a feature, not a defect.

 

[icegradner]

It's a hybrid, it's designed to run cold because running hot means wasted energy, means wasted gas, means wasted money.

This is just wrong, an ICE runs most efficiently at normal operating temperature. When the ICE is cold it burns more gas to create the same amount of power, thus it is less efficient. That is why many modern vehicles, including most hybrids, use shutter systems to keep the radiator blocked until cool air is needed.

Maverick owners who had the full shutter setup, before the first engine fire recall, often noted a drop in MPGs after the work was done, particularly during winter months compared to the previous winter when they had all the shutters.

 

[huunvubu]

This is just wrong, an ICE runs most efficiently at normal operating temperature. When the ICE is cold it burns more gas to create the same amount of power, thus it is less efficient. That is why many modern vehicles, including most hybrids, use shutter systems to keep the radiator blocked until cool air is needed.

Maverick owners who had the full shutter setup, before the first engine fire recall, often noted a drop in MPGs after the work was done, particularly during winter months compared to the previous winter when they had all the shutters.

The ICE engine in the Hybrid only runs when it needs to charge the HV battery, drive at high speeds, or when the accelerator causes it to exceed the blue electric power bar or when it is too cold to provide heat in cold temperatures.

It would be dumb to run the ICE to the same temperature as the EcoBoost or to 180 degrees fahrenheit when the thermostat opens up. Doing so would kill the MPG advantage for the hybrid.

What @jsus meant to say is the ICE in the hybrid will run enough to allow heat to the cabin and to warm the HV battery if necessary. You don't need 180 degree fahrenheit coolant temperatures to warm the cabin.

So it will run cooler than the ICE engine in the EcoBoost not that it will run cold.

Ford has been using hybrid technology since 2005. They know what they are doing.

 

[icegradner]

The ICE engine in the Hybrid only runs when it needs to charge the HV battery, drive at high speeds, or when the accelerator causes it to exceed the blue electric power bar or when it is too cold to provide heat in cold temperatures.

It would be dumb to run the ICE to the same temperature as the EcoBoost or to 180 degrees fahrenheit when the thermostat opens up. Doing so would kill the MPG advantage for the hybrid.

What @jsus meant to say is the ICE in the hybrid will run enough to allow heat to the cabin and to warm the HV battery if necessary. You don't need 180 degree fahrenheit coolant temperatures to warm the cabin.

So it will run cooler than the ICE engine in the EcoBoost not that it will run cold.

Ford has been using hybrid technology since 2005. They know what they are doing.

Thanks, but this is basic hybrid knowledge, been driving them for a long time now (before the Maverick was a pipe dream in some Ford designers head). I was addressing his comment that the ICE is wasting energy if it's warm, which is total crap. Very unlikely to run into a heat soak scenario on a cold winter day, unless your hauling or going up some big hills for a long period of time.

 

[Carjack]

Hi Guys

I was driving around for about 40 minutes yesterday (all city driving), and even towards the end of my trip the engine never reached operating temperature, it kept dropping when I turned on the cabin heat.
It was around 32F outside which isn't even that cold yet.

I also did a test near the end of my trip where the engine temperature would climb and be fine, then I'd turn on the cabin heat and it would drop to near cold within a minute.

My understanding is that some of the active shutters were forced into open position because of the engine fire issue. I am thinking of using something to cover that area similar to what I did in my 2012 Lexus CT (~ Prius) in the winter.

What are your thoughts on this situation?

Thanks

Use Sport mode when it is cold to achieve a higher operating temp.

 

[Markii56]

I've noticed that it seems to take forever to warm up via the temp gauge, which means it's slow to provide heat to the cabin. Living in Florida it's not vital, just a minor inconvenience. But there's no way I could put up with it if I were living back in Western New York.

 

[Zotman]

Hypermiler (Atlanta area) on the C-max message board would block airflow to keep engine above 200 degrees, well above normal operating temp. He was convinced it contributed to his superior mpgs and as far as I know it was never successfully disputed. Personally I was never that interested since my concern was damage to underhood components from the excessive heat.

 

[RichardCranium]

That is why many modern vehicles, including most hybrids, use shutter systems to keep the radiator blocked until cool air is needed.

The shutters are there to direct air around the vehicle instead of through the vehicle. My 2011 cruise has them. They open only when the car needs the the air going through the radiator to cool the engine.

there is an operating range that engines are most efficient. Typically this is between 180 and 240 degrees. Before OBDII you could buy different thermostats that would open at different temperatures. If I remember correctly, 205-215 is the point at which the engine runs cleanest, not most efficiently. In our race cars, we wouldn’t run thermostats, we would run flow restricters because the best performance was a cooler engine, around 170-180 degrees, but we tuned the engines to that temperature.
My Prius doesn’t even have a temperature gauge. I was surprised the hybrid nav’s have one.

 

[710-oil-614]

EB owner here but I always wait to turn on my heat until the engine nears operating temperature.

The EB is the first engine I've seen where the engine reaches "operating temperature" of 4 bars on the gauge and then when I turn on heat it drops to 3 bars - sometimes for a significant amount of time.

It surprised me because the EB usually runs pretty hot. Also has made me cut ASS during the winter months to avoid so many cold starts.

 

[23grayXLT84]

mine never moved past 1/4 mark driving around yesterday in the cold.

I did notice something odd though at idle even shortly after starting the car in garage. The radiator fans coming on for a few even if engine is well below its nominal operating temperature. Yesterday in garage (open) i remote stated using the app, 1-2 minutes in the fans came on.

 

[Maverstang]

...

What are your thoughts on this situation?

Thanks

 

[The Real Maverick]

Hi Guys

I was driving around for about 40 minutes yesterday (all city driving), and even towards the end of my trip the engine never reached operating temperature, it kept dropping when I turned on the cabin heat.
It was around 32F outside which isn't even that cold yet.

I also did a test near the end of my trip where the engine temperature would climb and be fine, then I'd turn on the cabin heat and it would drop to near cold within a minute.

My understanding is that some of the active shutters were forced into open position because of the engine fire issue. I am thinking of using something to cover that area similar to what I did in my 2012 Lexus CT (~ Prius) in the winter.

What are your thoughts on this situation?

Thanks

Blocking the radiator with something the engine will be fine at 32 (0°C) and below. It will not hurt the engine, it will give you more available heat to the cabin, and it will give you more EV miles.

One thing I do is not use cabin heat until the engine needle is at least half way. Also, the needle needs to be just above the C to allow EV driving. But as you’ve seen, EV mode with heat on drains the heat out of the system really fast. I too can watch the needle move down at a 1 minute stoplight.

 

[Zotman]

If anyone has the temp gauge with bars:
1 bar illuminates at 100 F;
2 bars at 140 F;
3 bars at 160 F;
4 bars at 180.
I have seen the temp over 200 but never seen a fifth bar illuminated.

 

[The Real Maverick]

If anyone has the temp gauge with bars:
1 bar illuminates at 100 F;
2 bars at 140 F;
3 bars at 160 F;
4 bars at 180.
I have seen the temp over 200 but never seen a fifth bar illuminated.

XL and XLT

120°F and the needle just starts to move.

155°F is the first tick mark

185°F is standard operating temperature and the needle is just a little less than vertical

The needle will not move any further until you get into “warning / trouble code” zone.

Probable no 5th light until you are at risk but I don’t have Lariat.

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