Cold temperature fuel efficacy drop Hybrid?

[Saul T Knutz]

He is getting horrible non-cold MPG to start with. If he is 90+% highway, Maybe an non-hybrid would have been a stronger choice.
But overall he is still getting better mpg then ecoboost.

If he's 90% highway, he's getting the EPA estimated 33 MPG right? Overall, this doesn't change my mind about ordering a hybrid, but it just got cold here in coastal VA so I should see pretty good numbers MPG-wise

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[TedTX]

Designed to fail…. Just leave this here.

 

[A Dodge that drives Fords]

17° in Wisconsin really hurting my MPG on my EcoBoost. Can't wait for spring LoL

 

[MLowe05]

He is getting horrible non-cold MPG to start with. If he is 90+% highway, Maybe an non-hybrid would have been a stronger choice.
But overall he is still getting better mpg then ecoboost.

Why would a non-hybrid make more sense just because the hybrid loses some efficiency in cold weather or at highway speeds? For early orders, the hybrid was automatically $1100 cheaper.

As I noted earlier in the thread, my Lariat Lux is averaging 33.9mpg over 3,700 miles and in conditions that are very far from ideal. The first 800 miles were 80mph cruise from PA to GA. Then we just put 2,200 miles on it driving it from north GA to Key West, around FL, and back. The day we drove it to Key West was the day Hurricane Nicole was making landfall, so we dealt with substantial head and cross winds and torrential rain for 2/3 of that trip. The first 1/3 were again 80mph interstate. It clocked its worst tank of 28.2mpg on that journey. Around the FL Keys we used a tank of fuel and netted 45.1mpg average.

Return trip home was again 80mph basically the entire way. Two fill ups, 34mpg and 30.9mpg.

I think these are respectable results for a 3600lb box on wheels. We drove my 2017 Kia Soul Turbo - 1.6L 201hp with 7-speed dual clutch - on this same journey in 2019. It averaged 23mpg on the way there and 20mpg on the way home.

And last - I averaged only 26mpg in a FWD Ecoboost over 2,000 miles of gentle use. So even in the worst case, I'm averaging 8mpg (or 30%) better with the Hybrid. That is saving money every tank in addition to the $1100 I saved to start with.

Lastly, I drove both FWD Ecoboost and the hybrid on the highway and same routes around my town. The Ecoboost is quicker in a drag race, but no difference I can tell in highway manners.

 

[TedTX]

It doesn’t. Trying to soften the blow to other guys thinking. At its worse, Hybrid is just as bad as EcoBoost is good.

 

[Vols44]

My first tank was 87 octane and warm with a 38MPG. The second tank was 91 octane with warm weather and 42 MPG. This tank was 87 with cold weather and 38MPG. Filling up tomorrow with 91 octane (regardless of the price difference). I want to see how ethanol free gas performs in cold weather.

 

[TedTX]

My first tank was 87 octane and warm with a 38MPG. The second tank was 91 octane with warm weather and 42 MPG. This tank was 87 with cold weather and 38MPG. Filling up tomorrow with 91 octane (regardless of the price difference). I want to see how ethanol free gas performs in cold weather.

Ok, enjoy shooting that extra expensive gas straight out the tailpipe to heat the engine anyway. I would take the other approach and pick the cheapest gas for Winter. The actual ratio of ethanol to gas changes in our favor in the winter blends.
Team Hybrid!

 

[GPSMan]

My first tank was 87 octane and warm with a 38MPG. The second tank was 91 octane with warm weather and 42 MPG. This tank was 87 with cold weather and 38MPG. Filling up tomorrow with 91 octane (regardless of the price difference). I want to see how ethanol free gas performs in cold weather.

Just keep in mind the absence of ethanol is helping your MPG, not the octane. The hybrid engine gets no benefit from higher octane. If it's all E10 in your area, you'll be best off with the cheapest gas available.

 

[TedTX]

Take back what I knew what was true for E85 gas ( had a truck earlier that was E85 ) that the ethanol percent drops a lot in winter. Not true for 10% common blends it could reach labeling to 10% in winter and less for vapor rules in Summer.
Still using non-recommended gas grades for the type of engine in hybrids is counter productive. The higher expansions ratio in Atkins engines is not the same as higher compression ratios in performance engines.

 

[GPSMan]

So here's the story with ethanol:

Ethanol has a vapor pressure of about 2 psi and gasoline has a vapor pressure of about 10 psi. Gasoline always evaporates more. Always.

But it's additive. So in E10 the vapor pressure is about 12.

Strong ethanol blends are BETTER for vapor emissions, all seasons. But weak blends are worse. Kinda weird. Not intuitive. And ethanol kinds gets a bad wrap for it.

E85 or 82-85% ethanol is hard to start in the cold. The vapors are so low. Thus they add 30% gasoline, make E70 for easier cold weather starting.

 

[TedTX]

Do wish that the hybrid could use E85, it just smells nicer burnt. Got serious chemicals sensitivity and that with A/C on battery and limited idle time of Hybrids help a-lot. Also, hybrid burn gas more completely so stinks less.
There is a problem using E85 in hybrid type engines.

 

[TedTX]

Crazy Ford had planned an E85 hybrid…… ten years ago. Didn’t pan out sadly.
https://www.drivingthenation.com/ford-escape-hybrid-e85/

 

[CuriousGary]

I think the efficiency in cold weather improves when the coolant temperature warms up. I believe the ICE runs until the coolant temperature rises above the outside temperature. This takes me 10-15 minutes of driving.

If you can stand it, you may see improved efficiency by turning off the climate control.

I tend to agree with you that hybrid gas mileage has much to do with warm up of the coolant system, based on the performance of my 2016 Ford CMax Hybrid.

I really don’t know how long it takes for the coolant to warm up, but I always get low mpg’s on short trips. On the way back, the mpg return to low 40’s, but I cannot say this regardless of temperature.

So, this morning I reset Trip 2 in my CMax to zero (since it is now cold here) and will monitor cold weather mpg’s here in GA until it gets warm again.

Would any former/current CMax Hybrid drivers like to comment?

 

[Gullzway]

This may be my first tank to average less than 40mpg. At 38 now with 110 miles to empty, did include a 3 hour highway trip @ 80mph.

My average after 9,200 miles so far is 44mpg.

 

[stoptothink]

Why would a non-hybrid make more sense just because the hybrid loses some efficiency in cold weather or at highway speeds? For early orders, the hybrid was automatically $1100 cheaper.

As I noted earlier in the thread, my Lariat Lux is averaging 33.9mpg over 3,700 miles and in conditions that are very far from ideal. The first 800 miles were 80mph cruise from PA to GA. Then we just put 2,200 miles on it driving it from north GA to Key West, around FL, and back. The day we drove it to Key West was the day Hurricane Nicole was making landfall, so we dealt with substantial head and cross winds and torrential rain for 2/3 of that trip. The first 1/3 were again 80mph interstate. It clocked its worst tank of 28.2mpg on that journey. Around the FL Keys we used a tank of fuel and netted 45.1mpg average.

Return trip home was again 80mph basically the entire way. Two fill ups, 34mpg and 30.9mpg.

I think these are respectable results for a 3600lb box on wheels. We drove my 2017 Kia Soul Turbo - 1.6L 201hp with 7-speed dual clutch - on this same journey in 2019. It averaged 23mpg on the way there and 20mpg on the way home.

And last - I averaged only 26mpg in a FWD Ecoboost over 2,000 miles of gentle use. So even in the worst case, I'm averaging 8mpg (or 30%) better with the Hybrid. That is saving money every tank in addition to the $1100 I saved to start with.

Lastly, I drove both FWD Ecoboost and the hybrid on the highway and same routes around my town. The Ecoboost is quicker in a drag race, but no difference I can tell in highway manners.

Been stated so many times on this board that it might be better to get the ecoboost if you do a lot of highway driving - some interesting logic. Certainly the delta shrinks depending on different factors, but I doubt there are many (if any) situations where the ecoboost is more efficient than the hybrid. Would love to see some real-world comparison testing; maybe >80mph or towing?

Our efficiency has noticeably decreased as the weather has gotten colder, but we're still averaging well over EPA estimates in every situation in our hybrid.

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