Drive belt on the 2.5L engine

[Darnon]

I don't know how you guys think electric is "super inefficient." It's physics; the heater element is a resistor. ALL the power dissipated becomes heat. Now the only question is how efficiently you get that heat to the desired location.

Except with a (non-plug-in) hybrid ideally we want the power staying in the small battery for driving rather than using it to heat coolant. So running the ICE early in the drive cycle is sort of a 'have your cake and eat it' because you get to 1) generate motive power 2) charge the battery 3) capture its waste heat for HVAC/battery and 4) warm the catalyst to operating temp which is inevitably needed.

Or if it's an EV that doesn't have an ICE then even more efficient than just resistive heating is using a heat pump. Oh boy does the EV crowd love heat pumps.

Sponsored

 

[FirstFord]

Except with a (non-plug-in) hybrid ideally we want the power staying in the small battery for driving rather than using it to heat coolant. So running the ICE early in the drive cycle is sort of a 'have your cake and eat it' because you get to 1) generate motive power 2) charge the battery 3) capture its waste heat for HVAC/battery and 4) warm the catalyst to operating temp which is inevitably needed.

Or if it's an EV that doesn't have an ICE then even more efficient than just resistive heating is using a heat pump. Oh boy does the EV crowd love heat pumps.

You're assuming that the path from the heating coil to the cabin is through the coolant. I agree this'd be inefficient; a lot of mass to heat up and conductive losses along the way. I was assuming that you'd have a fan blowing over the heating elements and ducting straight to the cabin.

Not having owned a hybrid before, I don't know how this is actually impmenented.

 

[HVACtrainer]

I have a question for the hybrid “tech” experts out there. I have been trying to find more detailed, under the hood photos of the 2.5L engine. While I was perusing the Maverick Owner’s manual I could only find the illustration for the drive belt diagram for a 2.0L EB, (page 310). There are no references to a drive belt on a 2.5L Hybrid engine.

So I looked up the 2021 2.5L hybrid Escape but found no reference to the hybrid engine drive belt there either. The only illustration I could find was the 1.5L and 2.0L engines (page 345).

i

So I looked up the 2.0L hybrid engine in a Fusion hybrid. There were no engine drive belt illustrations or references for a hybrid engine. My question is, is there a drive belt on the 2.5L hybrid engine? The reasoning behind this inquiry is does the engine use an alternator to recharge the chassis battery under the rear seat? Does the starter motor used to start the ICE (2.5L) also recharge the chassis battery? From what I have read, the traction motor does the recharging of the hybrid battery during braking regeneration.

Let the discussions begin.

From a person who has worked on a 2.5 hybrid in a C-Max hybrid. And re placed the transmission. I own a 2013 plug in c-max hybrid. The Atkinson engine is connected by the crankshaft to what is really a traction motor it has a drive ac motor and a ac generator to the ring gear connected by gears no belts. Hence the towing capacity. My c max had an electric HVAC compressor and an electric kettle to warm the antifreeze I am assuming the maverick will be as well. Can’t wait to get my hybrid

 

[Wire4money]

I hope so, as electric heaters are super inefficient.

Electric heaters have a 100% efficiency rating. Also see my post above. There is an auxiliary electric heater in the Mav.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

In general a later intake valve opening bleeds some compression off. I struggle to understand why adding compression only to bleed it off works but it does. Valve overlap works the same.

They do it to allow compression past the flash point of the octane rating of the gas and they then inject the gas just past top dead center and walla, no pre top dead center knocking!

 

[JASmith]

Electric heaters have a 100% efficiency rating.

Uhm, no, not even close.

Laws of thermodynamics tell us that the more times you convert energy from one type to another, the less efficient it is.

You're taking gasoline chemical energy, converting it into rotational energy and heat, taking the rotational energy and converting it into electrical energy and then taking that electrical energy to move ions to store them into a battery then converting that back into electrical energy and then converting that into heat energy. Each conversion has a loss.

Its SUPER inefficient compared to a traditional heater that simply routes some of the waste heat that is produced anyway in the conversion of gasoline to kinetic energy, at virtually zero cost, to the interior of the cabin.

The less the electric heater is on the better, so like you say if its just a stop gap until the engine is up to temp, that's fine, although usually just heated seats and steering wheel does that job fine in my experience as it takes a lot less energy to just heat those cold surfaces compared to all the air in the cabin.

 

[Criss944]

Electric heaters have a 100% efficiency rating. Also see my post above. There is an auxiliary electric heater in the Mav.

So why does my house have a heat pump not a resistive electric furnace?

 

[MakinDoForNow]

They do it to allow compression past the flash point of the octane rating of the gas and they then inject the gas just past top dead center and walla, no pre top dead center knocking!

The later intake valve opening is to add additional oxygen to insure more complete burn and thus less pollution.

 

[Brsbill]

So why does my house have a heat pump not a resistive electric furnace?

Because your heart pump is attached to outside fan bleeding energy to heat the air to air exchange. It is very efficient compared to heating elements

 

[MakinDoForNow]

From a person who has worked on a 2.5 hybrid in a C-Max hybrid. And re placed the transmission. I own a 2013 plug in c-max hybrid. The Atkinson engine is connected by the crankshaft to what is really a traction motor it has a drive ac motor and a ac generator to the ring gear connected by gears no belts. Hence the towing capacity. My c max had an electric HVAC compressor and an electric kettle to warm the antifreeze I am assuming the maverick will be as well. Can’t wait to get my hybrid

Someone posted a chart for the fuses and there were 2-40's and 1-60 labeled aux heat I don't think it covered all fuses and there were at least 2 unlabeled ones.

 

[Darnon]

They do it to allow compression past the flash point of the octane rating of the gas and they then inject the gas just past top dead center and walla, no pre top dead center knocking!

Not at all. You're describing something like Mazda's Skyactiv-X.

 

[jeffdeq]

From a person who has worked on a 2.5 hybrid in a C-Max hybrid. And re placed the transmission. I own a 2013 plug in c-max hybrid. The Atkinson engine is connected by the crankshaft to what is really a traction motor it has a drive ac motor and a ac generator to the ring gear connected by gears no belts. Hence the towing capacity. My c max had an electric HVAC compressor and an electric kettle to warm the antifreeze I am assuming the maverick will be as well. Can’t wait to get my hybrid

The drive belt I was referring to would have been on the bottom balancer, not the transmission side of the motor.

 

[clavicus]

I wonder if Ecoboost and Hybrid share these same fuses?

Does anyone know if the 2021 Escape hybrid has auxiliary heat for the cabin? Sorry if this got covered already.

 

[Wire4money]

So why does my house have a heat pump not a resistive electric furnace?

Heat pumps have an efficiency of over 100%. Usually between 200-300. If you look at the yellow tag on a resistive heater it will say 100%.

 

[Wire4money]

Uhm, no, not even close.

Laws of thermodynamics tell us that the more times you convert energy from one type to another, the less efficient it is.

You're taking gasoline chemical energy, converting it into rotational energy and heat, taking the rotational energy and converting it into electrical energy and then taking that electrical energy to move ions to store them into a battery then converting that back into electrical energy and then converting that into heat energy. Each conversion has a loss.

Its SUPER inefficient compared to a traditional heater that simply routes some of the waste heat that is produced anyway in the conversion of gasoline to kinetic energy, at virtually zero cost, to the interior of the cabin.

The less the electric heater is on the better, so like you say if its just a stop gap until the engine is up to temp, that's fine, although usually just heated seats and steering wheel does that job fine in my experience as it takes a lot less energy to just heat those cold surfaces compared to all the air in the cabin.

I’m not going to argue thermodynamics, but I live and breathe electricity. Every bit of electricity you put into a resistive heat is converted to heat, resulting in a 100% efficiency. With a hybrid that will regenerate on deceleration, the question is will it create an excess of electricity upon regen that will otherwise be wasted? The best case would be a heat pump using the air conditioning compressor.

Sponsored