2.5L Hybrid - Change to 5W-30 oil

[Master Blaster]

. . .
Ford doesn’t instruct you to use 0w-20 because the EPA forces them to. That’s crazy talk. Ford instructs you to use 0w-20 because they designed the engine for 20 weight oil.
. . .

Nope, Ford designs the engine to run properly on 0W oil, since unless you run all the time on the highway, the engine is cold or cool an awful lot more than a high performance race engine. In my case the engine only rarely gets up to what you think of as operating temperature where the 20-weight high-temperature viscosity keeps it working correctly. Using your line of thought, putting straight 20-weight oil in should be fine, but I'd bet it hand grenades before you even reach maximum temperature.

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[Robot-Wrangler]

Nope, Ford designs the engine to run properly on 0W oil, since unless you run all the time on the highway, the engine is cold or cool an awful lot more than a high performance race engine. In my case the engine only rarely gets up to what you think of as operating temperature where the 20-weight high-temperature viscosity keeps it working correctly. Using your line of thought, putting straight 20-weight oil in should be fine, but I'd bet it hand grenades before you even reach maximum temperature.

Where would one buy 20w straight grade motor oil in the lower 48 and what data do you have to back up claims of "hand grenade"-ing an engine starting on straight 20w oil? At what ambient temperature are your claims based on?

Straight 20 weight oil flows easier cold than straight 30 weight oil which is readily available and still used. Wouldn't the oil pressure relief of the pump simply regulate the oil pressure and prevent filter blowout? Or are you implying there would be insufficient lubrication to the bearings and the engine would seize?

Why wouldn't an Maverick Hybrid owner just stay within the recommended viscosity? I have had no issues with a slight viscosity change in Nissan cars calling for 0W20 synthetic oil. Either 5W20 or 5W30 performed well, though 5W30 made the engine quiet and lowered efficiency.

 

[Cherokee]

Back in the day we used to go thicker by 10 wt when an engine got past 80,000 miles. But not these new engines.
Heat transfer is one of the major purposes of engine oil.

I would not think slowing the flow would be wise.

Think about when you poop.
Diarrhea, flows fast and easy.
Constipated, dropping a fence post,
Ya gotta push.

Use the oil that was specifically designed, chosen for the often colder below what we consider normal engine temps. Do it so that lower stressed 2.5 engine can last a half million miles. It can ya know.

Sorry, couldn’t help it. Ya jest got a look inside an ADHD brain.
:’P

 

[mav47]

In light of this discussion, here's a YouTube video that landed a few days ago by "The Motor Oil Geek" (Lake Speed, Jr.) who is reported to have extensive expertise in lubrication.



Cheers!

 

[TheSEARCH]

In light of this discussion, here's a YouTube video that landed a few days ago by "The Motor Oil Geek" (Lake Speed, Jr.) who is reported to have extensive expertise in lubrication.



Cheers!

I was just about to post that video. I myself will still stay with factory recommended oil weight but video was interesting.

 

[Krys]

"Ford doesn’t instruct you to use 0w-20 because the EPA forces them to. That’s crazy talk. "
Just read that GM General Motors has changed the oil specification for 2021-24 engines 6.2 V8 L87 installed in Cadillac Escalade, Chevrolet Silverado and Suburban where the 0W-20 oil is change for 0W-40 to prevent crankshaft issues noticed with the lighetr oil. About 600K engines are affected, and some engines were replaced by GM.
The 0W-20 oil was recommended by EPA to improve veghicle mileage and save 0.002% of emissions. Actually, EPA wante to use 0W-16 oil, but it was not fully backward compatible https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=49388&flag=1

 

[dochawk]

it turns out the oil viscosity specified for this engine varies too: 0W-20, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 5W-40 are some of what I found,

Are any of those Atkinson cycle? Does that even make a difference?

My '06 Miata will be getting a ford fusion replacement engine. Ford builds them harder.

I'm sure you had to use the choke as well.

hey, none of that, unless you can actually drive with manual timing advance!

Just read that GM General Motors has changed the oil specification for 2021-24 engines

wait, retroactively changing service specs?

Who does GM think it is, anyway? Ford?

 

[Carlitos_92]

"Ford doesn’t instruct you to use 0w-20 because the EPA forces them to. That’s crazy talk. "
Just read that GM General Motors has changed the oil specification for 2021-24 engines 6.2 V8 L87 installed in Cadillac Escalade, Chevrolet Silverado and Suburban where the 0W-20 oil is change for 0W-40 to prevent crankshaft issues noticed with the lighetr oil. About 600K engines are affected, and some engines were replaced by GM.
The 0W-20 oil was recommended by EPA to improve veghicle mileage and save 0.002% of emissions. Actually, EPA wante to use 0W-16 oil, but it was not fully backward compatible https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=49388&flag=1

The GM situation is still a completely irrelevant data point. That has nothing to do with Ford, no matter the oil viscosity or reasoning behind it.

The 6.2L V-8s affected by this latest issue are not the only engines GM uses 0W-20 oil in, and plenty of other OEMs have figured out how to design engines with the thinner oils just fine, going back more than a decade.

 

[Maverick123]

"GM 6.2 motors are badly engineered, so go ahead and change the oil spec in your Ford 2.5 hybrid for no reason"
OK...

 

[srfdude44]

The GM situation is still a completely irrelevant data point. That has nothing to do with Ford, no matter the oil viscosity or reasoning behind it.

The 6.2L V-8s affected by this latest issue are not the only engines GM uses 0W-20 oil in, and plenty of other OEMs have figured out how to design engines with the thinner oils just fine, going back more than a decade.

I guess I'm on your list as well, good for me to not have to listen to your ignorant ranting about oil. Have you gone to tribology school, that you know so much? Yes the EPA is the driving force behind thin oil, and if you don't know it, well, ignorance is bliss I guess. The concept with the GM engines is the same, the EPA requires a set average fuel mileage and thinoil is their way of enforcing this requirement. Have you heard of CAFE? I guess not, maybe you should look it up.

 

[Master Blaster]

This engine (in the Escape and other models) used 5W20 for several decades. I would think 5W20 would be OK but 5W30 I personally would not use.

The 5W part of the oil spec is the problem, not the 20 or 30 weight hot temperature number. The Hybrid is built to start and stop a lot, and rarely gets even to 100C even on the highway.

 

[mav47]

About EPA "mandating" 0W-20 in modern engines:

I'm just guessing here, but likely EPA doesn't mandate certain oil specifications, that should be up to the vehicle manufacturers. And that likely is the case.

However, as mentioned above by other forum members: manufacturers must meet CAFE fuel efficiency standards for their fleet, and that means that the OEMs have every incentive to squeeze the maximum fuel economy out of each model.

Lower viscosity oils improve fuel economy, I think we all agree on this.

If Ford tested the Maverick Hybrid for fuel economy with 0W-20, and used those figures as their official EPA numbers, then regulations likely require Ford to specify this same oil (viscosity) going forward, otherwise the vehicle can't meet those EPA figures.

Small engine hybrid drivelines as in the Maverick Hybrid are exceptionally efficient and it doesn't take much of a change to the vehicle or engine to see fuel economy drop quite a few MPGs. I saw a noticeable drop when switching from stock all season tires to some mild all terrain tires, I noticed another drop when switching from 0W-20 to the thicker 5W-30. My Maverick now consistently does 36 mpg, while it used to be closer to 40 mpg. And that's fine.

That video above from @themotoroilgeek is about a GM 6.2 V8 conventional driveline, and I would think that the overall efficiency of these big drivelines is less affected by the use of a higher viscosity oil. Or maybe GM had already done some reprogramming on the ECU in earlier recalls so the switch from 0W-20 to 0W-40 doesn't get them into hot water with EPA. Just spitballing here...

Some notes on the (interesting) discussion in this thread:

Some of you feel that Ford "engineered" the Maverick 2.5 Duratec engine for 0W-20 oil. I'm not saying that's not the case, it could well be, but in my opinion it is more likely that they simply tested this existing engine design with 0W-20 oils to see if they could get away with specifying it and then gain some EPA fuel efficiency. In the above video @themotoroilgeek explains that's exactly what he did for GM at the time.

Also: some argue that "thinner oil is better" in a frequent start/stop situation, and this could be true, but at the same time the more protective (thicker) oil film that remains between bearing surfaces until oil pressure gets there could actually prove to be better overall. Or it may not matter much at all!


About using 5W-30 in my Maverick Hybrid:

I have about 5,000 miles on this oil now, and am closing in on the first oil change (at about 6,500 miles or so)

Two key things:

1) The engine still feels noticeably smoother than before. So much so, that I won't go back. I will be using 5W-30 going forward.

2) Oil on the dipstick now after 5,000 miles is also noticeable more clear than I remember seeing with the 0W-20 oil.

Cheers!

 

[The Real Maverick]

The 5W part of the oil spec is the problem, not the 20 or 30 weight hot temperature number. The Hybrid is built to start and stop a lot, and rarely gets even to 100C even on the highway.

Let's be crystal clear.

5w will be thicker (more viscus, harder to pump) at very cold temperatures, than will 0w.

30 will be thicker (more viscus, harder to pump) at hot temperatures.

0w20 and 5w20 are both 20 weight oils.

The only difference is, 0w is easier to pump at very cold temperatures.

The second number is more relevant as your engine spends minutes cold; and countless hours hot.

 

[The Real Maverick]

Very Cold = below zero °F
0w20 highly recommended

Cold = 0°F to 32°F
5w20 is going to be fine.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Let's be crystal clear.

5w will be thicker (more viscus, harder to pump) at very cold temperatures, than will 0w.

30 will be thicker (more viscus, harder to pump) at hot temperatures.

0w20 and 5w20 are both 20 weight oils.

The only difference is, 0w is easier to pump at very cold temperatures.

The second number is more relevant as your engine spends minutes cold; and countless hours hot.

It varies some between different brands and the oil used for production of synthetic or preferably synthetic produced from natural gas. 5w20 good down to -25°F 0w20 down to -40°F. There is a 99.94% chance that I would even attempt to start my Maverick when temps get below 4°F near Austin, Texas.

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