Does living in a hot climate shorten the battery life?

[fbov]

... Nissan Leaf...

Many good comments, and one last bit that seals the deal. Hybrid aren't stored with full HVB.

The Leaf is a BEV. Most folks will keep the HVB "topped up."

In a hybrid, it's hard to fill the HVB without driving down a long hill, so you're not likely to parh the vehicle with the hybrid's battery fully charge. That greatly decreases thermal life sensitivity.

Hot climates will not have a negative effect on HVB life in hybrid electric vehicles.

Plug-in hybrids and full EVs are another story, not the Maverick's (yet.)

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[Down]

Our summer was a little warmer than usual, but not record-breaking. The highest temperature was 113 degrees. On the other hand, our winters are pretty mild.

I hope that liquid cooling for the battery is ready for a workout.

Even though I'm buying an EB instead of a hybrid, one of the first things I looked at when my dealer got a Mav demo was how accessible the battery in it was, given that I rarely get more than 3 or 4 years out of a battery ever since I moved to AZ. The heat damage is real!

 

[DryHeat]

Lots of good, informative comments on here about the heat issue.

I was curious because the battery is under the car and blacktop surface temperatures here can rise above 170 degrees in the heat of the summer. (The local paper prints articles warning about road burn -- real road burn -- every year as summer rolls around.)

The liquid cooling system for the battery sounds like it will be able to handle the heat while the truck is running. And I live on a dirt street and park on the dirt, so I'm hoping ambient heat won't usually be a problem while parked.

But... Does anyone know if the battery coolant can continue to circulate (if needed) when the truck is parked on top of a 170 degree slab of asphalt? It seems like transferring some of that heat to the radiator -- farther from the asphalt -- might be helpful sometimes.

 

[fbov]

... I rarely get more than 3 or 4 years out of a battery ...

... out of a 12v battery. I get more like 7-9 years up North. You're right about temperature.

We're talking about the ~200V Li-ion battery that's a life-of-the-car item.

 

[Down]

... out of a 12v battery. I get more like 7-9 years up North. You're right about temperature.

We're talking about the ~200V Li-ion battery that's a life-of-the-car item.

Even though I'm buying an EB instead of a hybrid, one of the first things I looked at when my dealer got a Mav demo was how accessible the battery in it was, given that I rarely get more than 3 or 4 years out of a battery ever since I moved to AZ. The heat damage is real!

Sorry there Champ, I thought that first bolded part of my quote would be enough to clue folks in to the fact that I was making an ancillary point not directly related to the original post. Guess I was wrong.

 

[samesea2012]

Lots of good, informative comments on here about the heat issue.

I was curious because the battery is under the car and blacktop surface temperatures here can rise above 170 degrees in the heat of the summer. (The local paper prints articles warning about road burn -- real road burn -- every year as summer rolls around.)

The liquid cooling system for the battery sounds like it will be able to handle the heat while the truck is running. And I live on a dirt street and park on the dirt, so I'm hoping ambient heat won't usually be a problem while parked.

But... Does anyone know if the battery coolant can continue to circulate (if needed) when the truck is parked on top of a 170 degree slab of asphalt? It seems like transferring some of that heat to the radiator -- farther from the asphalt -- might be helpful sometimes.

this is a really good question. my intuition would be that the temperature of the asphalt under the truck would be significantly lower due to the shade. i’m not privy to the thermal properties of asphalt though.

 

[DryHeat]

my intuition would be that the temperature of the asphalt under the truck would be significantly lower due to the shade

It probably would be after a while. I'm thinking about the first few hours when you park a hot truck on top of hot parking lot asphalt. It takes a long time for asphalt to cool down in the evening shade if it's been a hot day.

I'm sure they've got that figured out though. It's not like the Southwest desert just got hot.

 

[GTBuzz]

Ford has thousands of batteries in the Mexican desert parking lots for a few months.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Lots of good, informative comments on here about the heat issue.

I was curious because the battery is under the car and blacktop surface temperatures here can rise above 170 degrees in the heat of the summer. (The local paper prints articles warning about road burn -- real road burn -- every year as summer rolls around.)

The liquid cooling system for the battery sounds like it will be able to handle the heat while the truck is running. And I live on a dirt street and park on the dirt, so I'm hoping ambient heat won't usually be a problem while parked.

But... Does anyone know if the battery coolant can continue to circulate (if needed) when the truck is parked on top of a 170 degree slab of asphalt? It seems like transferring some of that heat to the radiator -- farther from the asphalt -- might be helpful sometimes.

I have not found hardly any information on maverick battery but on some other 1.1kwh lion bat. I highly suspect that it must. Ford apparently has gone out of its way to temperature control everything. I read a study where some university was testing a 1.1 liquid cooled battery (I DO NOT KNOW IF IT WAS FORD'S). I cannot find that study at this time but they did say that as the temperature of the battery they were testing increased the rate that the battery would accept increased with the temperature up to (as I remember) 145 degrees where they stoped their testing since they were worried about thermal runaway. They said they had lots of room left but we're not sure they had enough temp sensors inside battery to detect all possible hotter spots. I also read where somebody was worried about his hybrid battery not holding a charge (do not remember what he was driving but it was a 1.1 KWH battery). He at least once drove his car a long time and said he could never get it over 94-95%. But to his point he was complaining that when he would go out the next morning his battery would show 30-35% charge. I took this to mean that his battery management system had either reduced the charge level intensionally or used it to cool battery or maybe even the 30-35% was all that was usable at the morning temperature. I think someone posted where the manual said not to park where temperature exceeded 140 degrees (should be easy to verify but I don't have manual and am going to bed now). I will look for more info.

 

[DryHeat]

I have not found hardly any information on maverick battery but on some other 1.1kwh lion bat. I highly suspect that it must. Ford apparently has gone out of its way to temperature control everything. I read a study where some university was testing a 1.1 liquid cooled battery (I DO NOT KNOW IF IT WAS FORD'S). I cannot find that study at this time but they did say that as the temperature of the battery they were testing increased the rate that the battery would accept increased with the temperature up to (as I remember) 145 degrees where they stoped their testing since they were worried about thermal runaway. They said they had lots of room left but we're not sure they had enough temp sensors inside battery to detect all possible hotter spots. I also read where somebody was worried about his hybrid battery not holding a charge (do not remember what he was driving but it was a 1.1 KWH battery). He at least once drove his car a long time and said he could never get it over 94-95%. But to his point he was complaining that when he would go out the next morning his battery would show 30-35% charge. I took this to mean that his battery management system had either reduced the charge level intensionally or used it to cool battery or maybe even the 30-35% was all that was usable at the morning temperature. I think someone posted where the manual said not to park where temperature exceeded 140 degrees (should be easy to verify but I don't have manual and am going to bed now). I will look for more info.

Because I live in Arizona, my question was whether the system continue to circulate HV battery coolant if a hybrid is parked on hot (170 degree) asphalt.

I appreciate that you are trying to help, but your response doesn't seem to address that issue. Actually, although I have read it three times, I can't figure out what you are trying to say.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Because I live in Arizona, my question was whether the system continue to circulate HV battery coolant if a hybrid is parked on hot (170 degree) asphalt.

I appreciate that you are trying to help, but your response doesn't seem to address that issue. Actually, although I have read it three times, I can't figure out what you are trying to say.

Sorry, I am assuming that it must be a priority to do so and that (someone reported that he read in the manual, presumably for the hybrid, not to park where temp exceeds 140 degrees) at 140 there would be a large enough temperature range to allow the "thermal management aka coolant" fluid to circulate through its own portion of the radiator which has it own cooling fan (I believe). This might be just a cya recommended temp not a life or death to the battery unless battery is extremely hot. People would freak out if a warning light flashed on dash with a message like "park in a cooler spot". I personally would not park there until I found out if for certain that the battery temperature management system remained active and could run if necessary. I know it should but can it? I do not know but surely it does. Maybe time to park over a "space blanket" held down by 4 bricks. (Remember those?). I tried to rewrite my prior but was starting to look like graduate thesis with all the BS.

 

[DryHeat]

Because I live in Arizona, my question was whether the system continue to circulate HV battery coolant if a hybrid is parked on hot (170 degree) asphalt.

Sorry, I am assuming that it must be a priority to do so and that (someone reported that he read in the manual, presumably for the hybrid, not to park where temp exceeds 140 degrees) at 140 there would be a large enough temperature range to allow the "thermal management aka coolant" fluid to circulate through its own portion of the radiator which has it own cooling fan (I believe). This might be just a cya recommended temp not a life or death to the battery unless battery is extremely hot. People would freak out if a warning light flashed on dash with a message like "park in a cooler spot". I personally would not park there until I found out if for certain that the battery temperature management system remained active and could run if necessary. I know it should but can it? I do not know but surely it does. Maybe time to park over a "space blanket" held down by 4 bricks. (Remember those?). I tried to rewrite my prior but was starting to look like graduate thesis with all the BS.

I don't know whether the battery cooling system runs when parked in extreme heat.

I think you are saying that you don't know either.

Maybe someone will respond who does know, but I'll probably just have to wait until I get mine to find out.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I don't know whether the battery cooling system runs when parked in extreme heat.

I think you are saying that you don't know either.

Maybe someone will respond who does know, but I'll probably just have to wait until I get mine to find out.

I certainly meant to say that, but apparently muddied the water by what I thought Ford would do and why, sorry. I am waiting for a lot of things to be revealed also.

 

[clavicus]

I certainly meant to say that, but apparently muddied the water by what I thought Ford would do and why, sorry. I am waiting for a lot of things to be revealed also.

I think elsewhere we established that when the hybrid vehicle is off, there are physical contactors energized by the 12v batt that that connect/disconnect the HVB from the rest of the system i.e. connection to the inverter and the other components — partly safety reasons and partly prevention of trickle drain I assume?

So would the 12v batt have to power some coolant movement in this theoretical case?

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I think elsewhere we established that when the hybrid vehicle is off, there are physical contactors energized by the 12v batt that that connect/disconnect the HVB from the rest of the system i.e. connection to the inverter and the other components — partly safety reasons and partly prevention of trickle drain I assume?

So would the 12v batt have to power some coolant movement in this theoretical case?

Even though the 12v could run a pump for awhile I would expect there to be at least two inverters one (or more) for HV circuits and one (or two if backup deemed necessary). The 12v circuit contactor could be closed and provide up to 14.4v(has to be charge voltage to prevent 12v drain) current for whatever purpose it's needed for. Remember HV battery is a flow battery and it's purpose is save or release power and it's MORE important to maintain 12v battery at or near full charge in order to start the life saving ice when possible. Leaving the HV contactors open would eliminate HV trickles (if there really is such a thing). I cannot imagine a reason to NOT keep 12v close to full charge if there is any voltage above some very low safety amount in HV. So I say close whatever contacts are necessary to provide power to whatever as needed. I am sorry but I cannot just say yes or no without explaining why I think so.

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