Beware: Heat Exchanger not covered under warranty

[Freeb22]

I talked with a customer service center supervisor yesterday and was informed that they are indeed grouping the heat exchanger in the auxiliary cooling system. My argument that just because I can call an engine a windshield doesn’t make it a windshield may be getting me somewhere. Worst case scenario, this will fail a New York smog test and New York allows non-residents to register in their state. At this point, I’ll pay whatever to make ford eat the cost of the repair.

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[surfstar]

Generally, any MIL will fail a CA smog test. (although new cars are exempt from testing for 4 years - looks like 8 now, actually)
Catch-22
Need to fail a smog test for Ford to be required to repair the issue. Smog test not required yet.
(again for CA - and likely for the other 11 states)

 

[NeedForSteve]

"Powertrain" doesn't encompass everything that can set a MIL code monitored by the PCM. It mostly covers the mechanical drivetrain components and a few major cooling/fuel delivery. Most of the sensors, ignition, etc only fall under the basic warranty.

I’m aware of the typical warranty coverage of Powertrain components, I spent a little over 5 years dealing with Ford’s inconsistent warranty practices almost daily. I think these sorts of claims come down to the quality of the Warranty administrator. Our admin would work to get things covered for customers and more often than not, if the tech could make a good argument, Ford would agree. Knowing that their warranty coverage list is a starting point and not the ending point is the key.

 

[notfast]

Don't just take their word for it. Read the warranty. They usually get wordy and specific.

I agree. On a much lighter note, the fuel filler cap on my Mazda3 sheared apart one day after I filled up the fuel tank. I am not of herculean strength by any means.

I went to the dealership and asked if the fuel filler cap was covered under the 10-year, 120000 mile PZEV emissions warranty, which I was verbally told that it wasn't. I thought that was reasonable, so I went to the parts department and bought a new fuel filler cap.

A week or so later, I read the warranty booklet to see exactly what the PZEV warranty covered. And what do you know, it says "Fuel filler cap". So I went back to the dealership, presented the warranty booklet, and politely demanded a refund.

Neither the service writer, or the service manager, or the warranty manager realized or could believe that the fuel filler cap was a covered item. They took a photocopy of the warranty book and obliged for a refund, but not after asking if I still had the broken one.

Having worked at a dealership and knowing that they need the core return for a warranty claim with Mazda corporate, I said no.

Same could be said of your refrigerator or washing machine. They need repaired or replaced too. Best to plan ahead and remove the worry. It's not that hard and it's easier when something breaks.

I agree...everything has a finite useful life. I used to be an HVAC tech assistant. I would get, eh, one call a week or so where a homeowner couldn't imagine that their 20-30-year-old A/C is no longer worth repairing. Or that the blown insulation in their attic has basically matted down to nothing and needs to be vacuumed up and replaced.

My suggestion is to either budget for capital expenses, or do the warranty route (such as getting a home warranty). This goes for cars as well. When I worked at the dealership, the customers I felt not a whole lot of sympathy for were the ones that bought a late-model but high-mileage something, and (figuratively) as the tires went over the curb, something catastrophic happened and they couldn't afford to repair it.

Well, the vehicle was less expensive partly because it was out of warranty. I didn't know their financial situations since I was a mechanic and not in sales, but I felt they should either buy a used vehicle warranty, or have the means to pay for unexpected repairs, or buy a less expensive vehicle.

I've always bought used. If I run into the issues like the OP has, it would be the last new vehicle I ever buy from Ford. (I've owned 3 different Tauruses.)

I've owned more than a dozen vehicles, only two of which were brand new. My preferred vehicles to buy are lease returns. I prefer buying preowned because the original owner is typically the most adamant about everything working and getting things fixed, and rightfully so since they paid a lot of money.

Me on the other hand, I have a lot less into the vehicle, so I don't care if not everything works properly. Also on the preowned market, everything comes down to price. The more imperfections a vehicle has, the cheaper it is. I knowingly bought a lemon law vehicle for a song. I thought lemon law buybacks were destroyed...nope, they just get resold with "Lemon law buyback" on the vehicle history.

That car gave me 30,000 miles of reliable transportation before I sold it. I don't even remember what the problem was, but it was relatively minor and didn't cause a safety issue.

Generally, any MIL will fail a CA smog test. (although new cars are exempt from testing for 4 years - looks like 8 now, actually)
Catch-22
Need to fail a smog test for Ford to be required to repair the issue. Smog test not required yet.
(again for CA - and likely for the other 11 states)

More like, "Definitively, any MIL will fail a CA smog test." It doesn't even have to be a permanent fault code; it could just be a pending one, which doesn't trigger a MIL/CEL.

Heck, my F-250 failed its smog test and was listed as a gross polluter, so I could only take it to STAR-certified test-only smog places, and I had to get a smog check every year instead of every other year. The reason that it failed? I did not have the proper CARB EO sticker for the aftermarket exhaust headers.

 

[AltoBAP]

I was told that sometimes they’d offer to cover the cost based on circumstances but since I’m not a loyal ford customer, I’m out of luck. Mind you, I’m 26 and this is my first new vehicle ever owned.

Welcome to Ford. It will only get worse.

 

[Freeb22]

Generally, any MIL will fail a CA smog test. (although new cars are exempt from testing for 4 years - looks like 8 now, actually)
Catch-22
Need to fail a smog test for Ford to be required to repair the issue. Smog test not required yet.
(again for CA - and likely for the other 11 states)

New York looks to be older than two year vehicles… except the loophole is that out of state vehicles being registered in New York must be inspected regardless of year.

 

[tom_tucker]

Good luck with your new Toyota. I would use this an an opportunity to upgrade to a Better/larger heat exchanger, probably for less than the dealer would charge.

Exactly. OP drives 38k in less than a year and balks at a $1500 repair? That's 4x the average drivers yearly miles. I'd call that extreme conditions, not even severe. I'll be lucky to drive 8k this year, 10k tops. OP either works a lot using the Maverick or works too little and drives too much, ha ha.

OP should find a custom exhaust guy maybe? Actually the Toyota idea might be best if you plan on driving over 100k miles in less than 3 years like the OP does. Much 'a do about nothing...

 

[JG307]

I wouldn’t call it whiny, just beware that this is my experience as one of the higher mile mavericks at this time. I did make a separate forum post just because this one may get buried. I have been pleased with the effort from my dealer but it seems they’re having the same issues with ford as I am.

Unrelated to the point of this thread, but can I ask what you do with your Mav that you're putting almost 40k miles/year on it?

Sorry to hear about your issue.

 

[FromAway]

Exactly. OP drives 38k in less than a year and balks at a $1500 repair? That's 4x the average drivers yearly miles. I'd call that extreme conditions, not even severe. I'll be lucky to drive 8k this year, 10k tops. OP either works a lot using the Maverick or works too little and drives too much, ha ha.

OP should find a custom exhaust guy maybe? Actually the Toyota idea might be best if you plan on driving over 100k miles in less than 3 years like the OP does. Much 'a do about nothing...

I am constantly amazed by the miles people put on their vehicles. I think mileage based taxes and fees will be coming soon, especially if this electric vehicle trend continues.

 

[Freeb22]

Unrelated to the point of this thread, but can I ask what you do with your Mav that you're putting almost 40k miles/year on it?

Sorry to hear about your issue.

I’m a firefighter so I have plenty of days off and we travel a lot with our kids. Life is short and we’re trying to see as much as possible.

 

[Timaysz]

Between working with a good dealer and asking nicely at the warranty department, this kind of thing would typically be covered. Though going into a new model it would be recommended buying an extended warranty, cause you know - we are the beta testers.

Yup.. I got a 84month bumper to bumper.. I looked at warranties online... Before my truck showed up and I didn't even have to haggle will the dealership about it.. He gave me the price for the 72 and a 84... And it was better then I had been looking up... My salesman is the general manager also.. He said with it being a new vehicle with only one model year under its belt they were giving g a realy good deal on the extended warranty if u wanted one....

 

[MPier]

I am constantly amazed by the miles people put on their vehicles. I think mileage based taxes and fees will be coming soon, especially if this electric vehicle trend continues.

The gas tax covers the mileage but some states are now adding to the cost of Registrations for PHEV, EV and Hybrids. If you have a Hybrid, these are the golden gap years until the rest of the states figure it out.

 

[ValenciaOrange]

I have tried to contact corporate and have been told by three different customer service reps that the only way to contact the warranty department is through the dealership. They don’t have a direct way to contact. Tomorrow I’ll be dropping a letter to my dealership and hopefully be able to escalate this up to the appropriate people. I bet most people stop when there’s no way to get in contact with anyone higher up.

Do not give up. Write a letter to the President of Ford. Make sure it has a signature required to assure they got it. His assistant will read it and send it to the appropriate people. This is a new vehicle for Ford. I would want to do what is right for the customer. What is the cost of repair?

 

[TonyS]

I don't want to read ALL the posts here so not sure if anyone has shared my view. I also don't want to be unsympathetic, I have a hybrid and I don't want a $1500 exhaust system repair at 38,000 miles. BUT, the following is what I believe to be the facts.

The heat exchanger is not part of the drivetrain. Not the motor, transmission, drive shafts, ect. In the case of the hybrid,, there is a heat exchanger in the exhaust to scavenge heat. This used to warm up the gas engine coolant faster. Because in a hybrid the gas engine doesn't run as much and the Atkinson cycle engine is more fuel efficient to begin with, resulting in less fuel burnt and heat.

I do not live in a state that emission tests and researching the exact parameters in states that do is taking to much time. But the guiding principle in emission testing is that it should reflect as near as possible real road driving conditions. Which would mean not focusing on the first few minutes of when a car is started from being dead cold. In some states I believe motorists just get in line and drive up.

Any effect on emissions with a bad heat exchanger are going to be pretty minimal - and only the result of the engine maybe taking a little longer to warm up. Some parts of the exhaust system are part of the emission controls which are warranted much longer. The exhaust pipe to the catalytic converter and the cat itself. Past that point it's exhaust and only warranted 3 years/36,000 miles. Videos I've seen appear that the heat exchanger is after the cat and before the muffler on the Mav.

So again, I don't want to have to replace my heat exchanger at 38,000 miles. But it looks to be a part covered by the 3/36,000 warranty. Not drive train. Not emissions.

 

[HughdMan]

Posting this as a caution to anyone considering a hybrid. This is concerning the heat exchanger which seems to be a common issue. I took delivery of my truck 3-28-2022. Around September with 20,000 miles I had an appointment scheduled for an engine shield recall. Days before my appointment, I began to get notifications in the app that battery power was low and all remote systems were disabled. Dealer found no issue causing this. Now at 38,000 miles, I have a check engine light with codes 237c and 237d. The cause was deemed to be the heat exchanger in the hybrid system (GREAT! Should be under the hybrid system warranty). Wrong. Sent home with the vehicle and told it is safe to drive. After speaking with the warranty department, I’m on my own for a $1500 repair on a part that should be covered under warranty. I have a shake at idle that started when the check engine light came on also. I was told that sometimes they’d offer to cover the cost based on circumstances but since I’m not a loyal ford customer, I’m out of luck. Mind you, I’m 26 and this is my first new vehicle ever owned. Just beware that after the 36,000 mile warranty, it’s a crapshoot whether anything (including power train) will be covered. Despite being maintained based on the maintenance schedule and services being done at the dealer, ford doesn’t care. Mine will be for sale after this repair and I’ll be Toyota shopping again based on solely customer service. My dealer’s service manager told me that this seems to be a common theme with ford’s warranty department in the last year. He told me that they thought it would be covered without question and he even requested it be covered again to no avail.
I don’t see this vehicle making it to 100,000 miles without extensive repairs and costs.

We heck. I ordered my 2022 on November 3rd 2021 and they turned it into a 2023 in August 2022 and I still don't have it. I just heard of this issue yesterday. Great- something else to look forward to!

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