OP
OP
- Thread starter
- #106
Yes, the hybrid (2.5L) calls for 0w - as do plenty of newer vehicles - which is why I used it.
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First Oil Change on Hybrid Maverick XLT -- my notes / tips
Yea i did a search later and saw that. I have a 2020 ford use 5w-20. Ow is always in the past been for super cold climates under 20f. I wonder why?
OP
OP
- Thread starter
- #108
I’m guessing that it’s for the tighter engine tolerances and the fuel savings, however minuscule.
The Ow part of 0w -20 is when the oil is cold once the engine warms its the second weight number (20) that counts. So not seeing anything to do with tolerances. its just that it stays thin at real cold temp were 5w 20 would be a little thicker ONLY at start up when super cold . . Thats is why they say use OW weight if operating in super cold temps . There must be a reason maybe because in the hybrid since the gas engine is not running all the time the oil stays colder longer? just a guess. Either way I would use what ever weight the manufacturer says too.
OP
OP
- Thread starter
- #110
Lower viscosity oils flow more easily than thicker oils - reducing friction - especially on startup. With the tighter tolerances of modern engines (some, not all) the lighter, and more faster flowing 0w is called for, especially in colder climates. Engine type - hybrid, NA, GDI - isn't really a factor. Also, no matter the temp outside, 0w is going to be thinner than 5w, which is thinner than 10w, and so on.
And I do agree with one point, use what the manufacturer requires. In this case - the hybrid's 2.5l - it calls for 0w-20.
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- #111
Bottom line, it doesn't matter if you use a 5w20 vs. a 0w20 for regions where it ain't too cold, like Atlanta, Memphis, Miami, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, like those.
A little complicated to prove this, but I'll try to summarize a proof. Only read the text below if you want to nerd-out on this subject like we engineers do.
Lots of 5w20 oils are actually thinner than 0w20 when it's not super-cold, and I'll define "super-cold" here to mean you gotta be below zero Fahrenheit ( -18 C) before there is any significant appreciable diff between 5w20 and 0w20. (Also note the "5w" is earned at -22F, and "0w" even colder than that!)
Example: Compare M1 5w20 with M1 EP 0w20, both available at walmart, popular examples, good oils. You would think the 0w20 would be thinner than the 5w20 at all temps, right? Wrong for that example, and many other examples too.
M1 5w20 is actually thinner in the temperature region of +20F to +212F (-6.7C to +100C).
Graph has viscosity (cSt) on the vertical axis, celsius on the horizontal axis.
That's why I say, if you live in the U.S. south, or a "warm" or temperate area, where it's rare to see a night with colder than +20F (-6.7C), then use 5w20 or 0w20 the same, don't matter.
If you live where it's cold, like Colorado, u know, then by all means, you prob will benefit from a "0w" oil.
That graph, thicker vs. thinner, 0w20 vs. 5w20, can be flipped for about 50% of the examples you could choose. I chose M1 5w20 vs. M1 EP 0w20 because they both have identical kv100 hot visc, so its really the best example one could come up with for trends as it gets cool.
All that said (and graphed, thank-you nerdy https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html ), with a positive displacement oil pump, that is not much visc difference for any engine. That is why there is a little variation (wiggle room) in the oil products, because only a range matters to earn an SAE 20 "grade" visc (SAE J300 spec).
The 0w oil in the above graph actually meets that cold spec, despite being a little thicker in moderately cool sumps, via avoiding waxy crystal formation, a whole 'nuther bizarre subject.
One more example: Castrol Edge Extended Performance 0w20 vs. 5w20, similar looking gold jugs at walmart. My personal fav 0w20 oil because it meets the tough MB 229.71 spec.
Those two, 5w20 vs. 0w20, are identical in visc between +20F to +212F (-6.7C to +100C). No diff at all. Seems odd, right?
A little complicated to prove this, but I'll try to summarize a proof. Only read the text below if you want to nerd-out on this subject like we engineers do.
Not true for about the half the examples you could pick of any 0w20 vs. any 5w20.
Lots of 5w20 oils are actually thinner than 0w20 when it's not super-cold, and I'll define "super-cold" here to mean you gotta be below zero Fahrenheit ( -18 C) before there is any significant appreciable diff between 5w20 and 0w20. (Also note the "5w" is earned at -22F, and "0w" even colder than that!)
Example: Compare M1 5w20 with M1 EP 0w20, both available at walmart, popular examples, good oils. You would think the 0w20 would be thinner than the 5w20 at all temps, right? Wrong for that example, and many other examples too.
M1 5w20 is actually thinner in the temperature region of +20F to +212F (-6.7C to +100C).
Graph has viscosity (cSt) on the vertical axis, celsius on the horizontal axis.
That's why I say, if you live in the U.S. south, or a "warm" or temperate area, where it's rare to see a night with colder than +20F (-6.7C), then use 5w20 or 0w20 the same, don't matter.
If you live where it's cold, like Colorado, u know, then by all means, you prob will benefit from a "0w" oil.
That graph, thicker vs. thinner, 0w20 vs. 5w20, can be flipped for about 50% of the examples you could choose. I chose M1 5w20 vs. M1 EP 0w20 because they both have identical kv100 hot visc, so its really the best example one could come up with for trends as it gets cool.
All that said (and graphed, thank-you nerdy https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html ), with a positive displacement oil pump, that is not much visc difference for any engine. That is why there is a little variation (wiggle room) in the oil products, because only a range matters to earn an SAE 20 "grade" visc (SAE J300 spec).
The 0w oil in the above graph actually meets that cold spec, despite being a little thicker in moderately cool sumps, via avoiding waxy crystal formation, a whole 'nuther bizarre subject.
One more example: Castrol Edge Extended Performance 0w20 vs. 5w20, similar looking gold jugs at walmart. My personal fav 0w20 oil because it meets the tough MB 229.71 spec.
Those two, 5w20 vs. 0w20, are identical in visc between +20F to +212F (-6.7C to +100C). No diff at all. Seems odd, right?
Yes.
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OP
OP
- Thread starter
- #112
Thanks for taking the time to explain, but to be honest, it's not moving my needle. Nothing personal, but I don't geek out over oil specs - I have plenty of other stuff to geek out over - but I'm glad people like you do.Bottom line, it doesn't matter if you use a 5w20 vs. a 0w20 for regions where it ain't too cold, like Atlanta, Memphis, Miami, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, like those.
A little complicated to prove this, but I'll try to summarize a proof. Only read the text below if you want to nerd-out on this subject like we engineers do.
Not true for about the half the examples you could pick of any 0w20 vs. any 5w20.
Lots of 5w20 oils are actually thinner than 0w20 when it's not super-cold, and I'll define "super-cold" here to mean you gotta be below zero Fahrenheit ( -18 C) before there is any significant appreciable diff between 5w20 and 0w20. (Also note the "5w" is earned at -22F, and "0w" even colder than that!)
Example: Compare M1 5w20 with M1 EP 0w20, both available at walmart, popular examples, good oils. You would think the 0w20 would be thinner than the 5w20 at all temps, right? Wrong for that example, and many other examples too.
M1 5w20 is actually thinner in the temperature region of +20F to +212F (-6.7C to +100C).
Graph has viscosity (cSt) on the vertical axis, celsius on the horizontal axis.
That's why I say, if you live in the U.S. south, or a "warm" or temperate area, where it's rare to see a night with colder than +20F (-6.7C), then use 5w20 or 0w20 the same, don't matter.
If you live where it's cold, like Colorado, u know, then by all means, you prob will benefit from a "0w" oil.
That graph, thicker vs. thinner, 0w20 vs. 5w20, can be flipped for about 50% of the examples you could choose. I chose M1 5w20 vs. M1 EP 0w20 because they both have identical kv100 hot visc, so its really the best example one could come up with for trends as it gets cool.
All that said (and graphed, thank-you nerdy https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html ), with a positive displacement oil pump, that is not much visc difference for any engine. That is why there is a little variation (wiggle room) in the oil products, because only a range matters to earn an SAE 20 "grade" visc (SAE J300 spec).
The 0w oil in the above graph actually meets that cold spec, despite being a little thicker in moderately cool sumps, via avoiding waxy crystal formation, a whole 'nuther bizarre subject.
One more example: Castrol Edge Extended Performance 0w20 vs. 5w20, similar looking gold jugs at walmart. My personal fav 0w20 oil because it meets the tough MB 229.71 spec.
Those two, 5w20 vs. 0w20, are identical in visc between +20F to +212F (-6.7C to +100C). No diff at all. Seems odd, right?
Yes.
My statements come from what I've read, and from those I've talked to, but I'm not an engineer, nor ever claimed to be. I pick an appropriate oil that covers what the manufacturer recommends, especially on a new vehicle with a warranty. They want 0w in my engine, then cool, 0w I'll put in.
That takes all the fun out of fishing the drain plug out of the oil drain pan.
- Banned
- #114
I agree, the best strategy for folks who don't want to think about alternatives, is to simply always use the house-brand oil & filter (Motorcraft for all parts/oil) in the weight the Owner's Manual says. That is always "not wrong". It also may not be the best you can do, which is why some enthusiasts look for better quality.
Especially with the Motorcraft (made by Purolator, key fact) oil filters, they have a bad reputation for getting holes in the media. Doesn't mean you will get a rip, tear, or hole in the media when using that brand. Only means its more likely to let you down than most other brands. This comes from years of people randomly cutting open oil filters and finding a significant percentage of Motorcraft & Purolator had holes inside them. It was extremely rare for other brands to get holes, by comparison.
The three extremes of car maintenance people (#4 can't be called fringe):
1. The worst owner (they do exist): Oil? That needs changing? Not changed, nothing done or checked in service.
2. The non-car-nut: Let the dealership put on whatever they do, when they want to, we don't care, we don't know. Usually works fine. Dealerships profits go up.
3. A disgusting car enthusiast: Insists on using a 0w-20 that meets both Ford WSS-M2C962-A1 & MB 229.71, the best set of tests. Changes factory-fill oil out at 1,000 miles. Puts in a high-moly oil during the first 5,000 miles to help break-in. ........ Uses an oversized Fram XG3600 or similar Amsoil EAO34 oil filter for finer filtering and longevity. .........Puts on a GoldPlug AP-04 M12-1.75 neodymium magnet drain plug to catch some iron dust. ....... Changes oil 20% before the Oil Life Monitor goes to full-on Red Alert. ...... extreme geekery.
4. Really not extreme: Does oil changes themselves and uses any 0w-20 oil and filter they see for the best value at walmart or other store. Should be fine. Change at oil life monitor alert. Eats their vegetables too.
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No one has EVER proven an engine failure due to lack of REGULAR oil changes. Did the bearing get destroyed (spin) by NOT changing the oil regularly ? Or by letting the crank case run low ? Caked up oil is caused by paraffin based oil. That build up is heated, crusty, wax. Oil never breaks down. (unless overheated) it just gets dirty. Oil has been WAY under ground and under incredibly high pressure for LONG time honey.
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Reminds me of a much yuckier version of bobbing for apples. I'll pass.That takes all the fun out of fishing the drain plug out of the oil drain pan.
The oil in an internal combustion engine cannot last due to one glaring flaw in the design.
The piston rings will always allow SOME blow by along the cylinder walls. No matter how many rings there will be gaps and combustion byproduct will get through into the oil below the cylinders.
It's why engine oil needs replaced regularly and transmission fluid not so regularly.
Maverick, good info, seems lile you have been on bitog a bit.
If we own an ICE vehicle we should educate ourselves. Can people go over board on it? Yes.
If we own an ICE vehicle we should educate ourselves. Can people go over board on it? Yes.
Doing your own oil changes does not affect your warranty. But if the engine were to blow within the warranty period it would be a good idea to have receipts for the oil and/or filters to back you up.
Cool thanks, good idea
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