Updated: HYBRID catalytic converter glowing 😡😡

[Adospeed]

@SpruceDuck Hey man, you got my support (for what it's worth). If I were in your shoes, I'd be meeting the Regional Ford Technician at the dealership and have a face-to-face talk, and though while being as cordial as I can, I'd be calling BS on their talking points and demand a further, detailed explanation on how this glowing cat is acceptable, how they are going to fix it to new, or how they are going to buy the truck back. And then I'd ask the Service Manager to duplicate it right in front of them, and let them observe the cat start glowing........and then see how nervous they get. And I'd be like, nah, let's keep it running, since there is nothing to be afraid of, right?

All that to say, when it comes to thousands of dollars on the line, outside of physically harming someone, sometimes you just got be public about how absolutely insane their position. Let's see if Ford actually releases a software update as I believe they referenced, by end of month. I''ll be keeping an eye on it for my Hybrid.

Stand strong brother, but do your best to not let it consume you, to a point where you are miserable. I've been there. Hang in there man, I feel your pain having to fight Nissan myself one time on a Lemon issue woth my Frontier, and I demonstrated it the issue to the Nissan Regional Tech on the spot, and all the dealership staff just cringed when he said "It's working as it was designed to worK". Nissan bought the truck back.
Anyhow Take care of yourself...........and I appreciate your FIRE and ENTHUSIASM to push them.

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[Adospeed]

Sorry, you're on your own. Like I said, I think it's a waste of time and effort.

yeah man, it kills me to see people in these scenarios.......absolutely dream crushing man to have your Mav cooking itself.

 

[Naranjita]

Reading this thread, I can just hear George Carlin in my head:

 

[DryHeat]

If I were in your shoes, I'd be meeting the Regional Ford Technician at the dealership and have a face-to-face talk, and though while being as cordial as I can, I'd be calling BS on their talking points and demand a further, detailed explanation on how this glowing cat is acceptable, how they are going to fix it to new, or how they are going to buy the truck back. And then I'd ask the Service Manager to duplicate it right in front of them, and let them observe the cat start glowing......

That's going to be hard for @SpruceDuck to do.

You may have missed the posts where he says he already sold the truck to Carvana.

 

[Adospeed]

That's going to be hard for @SpruceDuck to do.

You may have missed the posts where he says he already sold the truck to Carvana.

oh boy....popcorn time.

 

[DryHeat]

Hey, @SpruceDuck, you might want to check out this thread.

Ford is saying they already have a software update for what appears to be the same problem you suffered.

 

[SpruceDuck]

Hey, @SpruceDuck, you might want to check out this thread.

Ford is saying they already have a software update for what appears to be the same problem you suffered.

Thanks for the heads up. really.

Unfortunately, in some ways that ship has sailed (as it's been pointed out I've since sold the car). The real issue at this point (aside from the fact that Ford's miserable customer service has cost them my patronage for life, likely) is that everyone at Ford told me before and after the fix was in the works that my car was NOT ok to operate normally, and yet their pseduo-TSB said it IS/WAS OK. At the time the cat looked like a meltdown, the car reeked of noxious, burning things, and the techs told me the car wasn't right, but Ford (on a corporate level) determined the car was "fine." No one would confirm or deny whether or not the catalytic converter was getting wrecked (hard to see how it wasn't). Ford made no attempt to shore up my concerns about the longevity of said cat, despite their techs suggesting I had every right to be concerned.

I'd like to see if there's more to the TSB than what was posted here. For instance, do they advise customers operate their vehicles in a particular way (ie. "normally", as stated in their pre-TSB message), or is this simply officially just a wait-and-see fix for those who complain after their car demonstrates this defect?

It's April (tomorrow)... most of the country is leaving the bitter temperatures behind until the Autumn. Dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands(?) of people might have these early build Mavericks and not know their vehicle is a potential conflagration waiting to happen until the next round of subzero temperatures. Or what of Mavericks sold in the more temperate regions that eventually make their way north in a year or three, for whatever reason? What happens when unsuspecting customers find out their cat fused itself into a $3,000 paperweight, and Ford basically sat back and let it happen?

And what of the obvious fire risk for those people? Either I'm an idiot or I'm sensible, regarding this particular concern-- there's no middle ground. I certainly know I can be both, but when I saw and felt and smelled what was going on underneath the hood, every cell in my body said "F I R E", and I killed the engine. I was appalled by the lack of serious engagement from Ford when I vocalized and documented what appeared to be a clear and present danger (yes, it's a cheesy phrase, but apropos). So, are some of those unsuspecting folks sitting on the automotive equivalent of tinder?

It just feels like a super sketchy situation, and the blatantly contradictory statements Ford issued really worried me... but not as much as the inability on Ford's part to make sense of that contradiction. I put a ton of time and energy into trying to get straight answers. Now I'm just concerned Ford's playing the same old, gross corporate greed game, putting peoples' lives and livelihoods at stake by playing down a potentially legitimate mechanical issue to avoid bruising the image and profitability of their Golden Child, Maverick.

 

[DryHeat]

Dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands(?) of people might have these early build Mavericks and not know their vehicle is a potential conflagration waiting to happen until the next round of subzero temperatures.

I don't have enough information on this, but it certainly seems like this fix should be available and applied to all hybrids that have the older software version. (Including mine.) I haven't seen anything that indicates only some of them are vulnerable to this problem.

Still, now that Ford has acknowledged the issue and implemented a software fix, do you still feel like your whistleblower lawsuit is viable? To me, it seemed like a waste of time before and seems even more like that now.

 

[SpruceDuck]

I don't have enough information on this, but it certainly seems like this fix should be available and applied to all hybrids that have the older software version. (Including mine.) I haven't seen anything that indicates only some of them are vulnerable to this problem.

Still, now that Ford has acknowledged the issue and implemented a software fix, do you still feel like your whistleblower lawsuit is viable? To me, it seemed like a waste of time before and seems even more like that now.

Absolutely. Still applies.

Unlike with safety recalls, manufacturers aren't required to notify vehicle owners of TSBs. And that's the crux of it. A TSB ain't worth dirt to someone who doesn't know their car might be a risk.

I'm hoping this problem really isn't a problem. That would be nice. That's not what common sense dictates, but I'd be thrilled if that was the case. And if it is a problem, shaking the tree can't hurt, and it's hardly a waste of time. Cars are dangerous things. They're complex machines that require hundreds of individual components to work together in harmony. Most of us don't know a damn thing about those components, and many people wouldn't know if their car was a fire risk until it was too late. I think we underestimate the sheer ignorance most people have when it comes to the maintenance and mechanics of their car.

Sh*t can and does wrong, fairly often, and sometimes in some spectacularly tragic ways. They're just machines, after all. Yeah, statistically, the chances of you being affected by a catastrophic mechanical failure are pretty slim, but if it happens to be a point of failure that's understood to be dangerous, and nothing's done to address it accordingly, well, that's effed up. Why play those kind of games? Yeah, chainsaws are dangerous, but generally not if they're functioning properly and operated properly. You could argue that cars are much safer... but if Husqvarna knew there was a bearing in their saw that could seize up and cause the blade to jump, potentially leading to an injury, and they only told customers about the problem after they complained, that'd seem like a sociopathic move on Husqvarna's part. But corporations of every stripe do this sh*t all the time. It just simply happens.

All I know is my mind and soul were disturbed by the spectacle under the hood of my car. Trained Ford Technicians shared my concern. And a TSB does nothing to inform other owners that their car might have the same issue. Until someone proves to me this is not the danger it appears to be to me and many other owners and technicians, I call shenanigans.

And in case you're in need of inspiration, enjoy the following selections:

(Here's one of my favorite quotes from the following article)

'Earlier that year, an unidentified Toyota employee appeared to realize the dangerous game the company was playing.

“Idiots! Someone will go to jail if lies are repeatedly told. I cannot support this,” the unidentified employee said after a meeting between Toyota and regulators in January 2010, according to court documents.'

Toyota's macabre neglect that started as a TSB:
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyo...dly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-toyota-timeline-idUKTRE62O3Q420100325

Toyota suggested that floor mats were somehow impeding the return of the gas pedal, even while the company was hiding documents that showed a flaw in the gas pedal assembly was the culprit.


GMs macabre neglect that started as a TSB:
https://www.npr.org/2014/03/31/297158876/timeline-a-history-of-gms-ignition-switch-defect

An equally repugnant episode. From the timeline of the above article:

December 2005: GM sends dealers a bulletin stating the defect can occur when "the driver is short and has a large and/or heavy key chain ... the customer should be advised of this potential and should ... [remove] unessential items from their key chain."

July 29, 2005: Maryland resident Amber Marie Rose, 16, dies when her 2005 Chevrolet Cobalt crashes into a tree after the ignition switch shuts down the car's electrical system and the air bags fail to deploy.



And Ford has its own sordid past. A TSB is helpful in some cases, but utterly useless in the most consequential ones. I don't like what I'm seeing. My gut tells me this is not ok.

 

[DryHeat]

Absolutely. Still applies.
* * *

I take it your long post means you are planning to bring a lawsuit.

Let us know when you actually do that.

 

[SpruceDuck]

I take it your long post means you are planning to bring a lawsuit.

Let us know when you actually do that.

I'm assuming your last comment means you didn't take the time to read said "long post."

I have no grounds to file a lawsuit. I was not harmed. My vehicle was sold. I have nothing to support a lawsuit. What I do have is evidence and corroborating statements made by Ford employees contradicting an official service bulletin. I also have an interest in protecting every Dick & Jane from here to Juneau, because even if a lot of people are schmucks, they're still people, and I'd hope if they had dirt on a situation like this, they'd be eager to make sense of it too.

Sounds like you might not feel the same. I dunno. I'm not here to respond when you please (when I "actually do that"). You're more than welcome to share your views here-- needless to say, that's exactly what this forum is for. I'm still happy to hear ideas from anyone who shares my concern.

 

[projectvortex]

Hey, @SpruceDuck, you might want to check out this thread.

Ford is saying they already have a software update for what appears to be the same problem you suffered.

Yes but it “only applies” to those vehicles showing the problem(s), meaning since I’ve never experienced it, I cannot just call up the dealer and ask for a software update. At least that’s the way I read it.

 

[KimoCarew]

I don't have enough information on this, but it certainly seems like this fix should be available and applied to all hybrids that have the older software version. (Including mine.) I haven't seen anything that indicates only some of them are vulnerable to this problem.

Still, now that Ford has acknowledged the issue and implemented a software fix, do you still feel like your whistleblower lawsuit is viable? To me, it seemed like a waste of time before and seems even more like that now.

Thank you... seems like the TSB is right on the money. I feel bad for the brother who was unhappy with his Mav and hope he got more money from Carvana than he paid.

 

[SpruceDuck]

Thank you... seems like the TSB is right on the money. I feel bad for the brother who was unhappy with his Mav and hope he got more money from Carvana than he paid.

I do appreciate the sympathy. Carvana bailed me out... and I actually broke even, after the thousands in taxes and dealer fees I'd never recoup, my travel expenses to pickup the car, and the accessories I put on it I'd never get a refund for; Ford wasn't gonna help out in any way, shape, or form. They demonstrated as much. They could barely figure out which way was up, despite watching my car roast itself.

The TSB is def right on the money, but again, it only addresses people who complain. It's not even a part replacement, it's a freakin reprogramming of modules. Ford doesn't want to recall the cars because it's gonna cost them service hours. They don't even have to purchase, ship, and install hardware. That's some cheapskate shady sh*t if you ask me. If I let my car idle for another 15 minutes when it was cooking, I'd have bet "lefty" that my car would have had some melty things going on under the hood, at the very least.

So yeah, you could say I was unhappy with my Mav. Sorry to repeat my "tragedy", but I reported this to them in January, five days after I bought my car. It sat at Ford for three weeks, with no answers, and no loaner. And when I got an answer, they said "you can drive it, but don't do this, this and this." When I balked, the service manager said, "I don't blame ya." And then Ford issued a contradictory statement. I asked the service manager for clarification and she couldn't get a straight answer from Dearborn. In the meantime, customer care said they were helpless and my dealership (where I purchase it) said, "too bad, so sad."

My local dealership told me customer service would have been responsible for securing a loaner for me (since they didn't have any); customer service told me the dealership was responsible. How hard is it to get a "loaner vehicle" right? What is this, the 1970's? All Ford had to freaking do was put me in a G-damn Fiesta for a couple of weeks so I could live my life, go to work, sell my troubled older vehicle so I could cancel my insurance and get a refund on my registration. That would have at least bought them some good faith... maybe I wouldn't have had so much time to contemplate what a sh*t show it really was.

Clown shoes. And I'm still not convinced those hybrid Mavs are safe.

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