HYBRID 12V Battery Mystery SOLVED

[rslilly76]

Correct me if I'm wrong,

With a constant voltage (say 13.5, 14.0, 14.5 your pick) no "brains" are necessary.

The battery will take what it needs, reach homeostasis, and current will stop flowing into it.

I don't understand the need for all the voodoo witchcraft here.

actually once hits 100% it needs to stop, overcharging is an issue too

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[rslilly76]

Ok parked the truck at 97% last night, and set parking brake. This morning 97%

The previous night 99% no parking brake and 94% yesterday morning

obviously a one time deal
parking brake set every time battery still drains was 89 this morning

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

actually once hits 100% it needs to stop, overcharging is an issue too

But not at a reasonable 13.5 or 13.8 volts.

 

[HeyBales]

Pre-25MY have no set Ah rating, Relearn trying to figure it out - perhaps close enough?

https://www.batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-403-charging-lead-acid

The battery is fully charged when the current drops to a set low level. The float voltage is reduced. Float charge compensates for self-discharge that all batteries exhibit.

The switch from Stage 1 to 2 occurs seamlessly and happens when the battery reaches the set voltage limit. The current begins to drop as the battery starts to saturate; full charge is reached when the current decreases to 3–5 percent of the Ah rating. A battery with high leakage may never attain this low saturation current, and a plateau timer takes over to end the charge.

The correct setting of the charge voltage limit is critical and ranges from 2.30V to 2.45V per cell. Setting the voltage threshold is a compromise and battery experts refer to this as “dancing on the head of a pin.” On one hand, the battery wants to be fully charged to get maximum capacity and avoid sulfation on the negative plate; on the other hand, over-saturation by not switching to float charge causes grid corrosion on the positive plate. This also leads to gassing and water-loss.

Temperature changes the voltage and this makes “dancing on the head of a pin” more difficult. A warmer ambient requires a slightly lower voltage threshold and a colder temperature prefers a higher setting. Chargers exposed to temperature fluctuations include temperature sensors to adjust the charge voltage for optimum charge efficiency. (See BU-410: Charging at High and Low Temperatures )

Once fully charged through saturation, the battery should not dwell at the topping voltage for more than 48 hours and must be reduced to the float voltage level. This is especially critical for sealed systems because they are less tolerant to overcharge than the flooded type. Charging beyond the specified limits turns redundant energy into heat and the battery begins to gas.

The recommended float voltage of most flooded lead acid batteries is 2.25V to 2.27V/cell. Large stationary batteries at 25°C (77°F) typically float at 2.25V/cell. Manufacturers recommend lowering the float charge when the ambient temperature rises above 29°C (85°F).

Not all chargers feature float charge and very few road vehicles have this provision. If your charger stays on topping charge and does not drop below 2.30V/cell, remove the charge after 48 hours of charging. Recharge every 6 months while in storage; AGM every 6–12 months.

Aging batteries pose a challenge when setting the float charge voltage because each cell has its own unique condition. Connected in a string, all cells receive the same charge current and controlling individual cell voltages as each reaches full capacity is almost impossible. Weak cells may go into overcharge while strong cells remain in a starved state. A float current that is too high for the faded cell might sulfate the strong neighbor due to undercharge. Cell-balancing devices are available compensate for the differences in voltages caused by cell imbalance.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Pre-25MY have no set Ah rating, Relearn trying to figure it out - perhaps close enough?

https://www.batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-403-charging-lead-acid

The battery is fully charged when the current drops to a set low level. The float voltage is reduced. Float charge compensates for self-discharge that all batteries exhibit.

The switch from Stage 1 to 2 occurs seamlessly and happens when the battery reaches the set voltage limit. The current begins to drop as the battery starts to saturate; full charge is reached when the current decreases to 3–5 percent of the Ah rating. A battery with high leakage may never attain this low saturation current, and a plateau timer takes over to end the charge.

The correct setting of the charge voltage limit is critical and ranges from 2.30V to 2.45V per cell. Setting the voltage threshold is a compromise and battery experts refer to this as “dancing on the head of a pin.” On one hand, the battery wants to be fully charged to get maximum capacity and avoid sulfation on the negative plate; on the other hand, over-saturation by not switching to float charge causes grid corrosion on the positive plate. This also leads to gassing and water-loss.

Temperature changes the voltage and this makes “dancing on the head of a pin” more difficult. A warmer ambient requires a slightly lower voltage threshold and a colder temperature prefers a higher setting. Chargers exposed to temperature fluctuations include temperature sensors to adjust the charge voltage for optimum charge efficiency. (See BU-410: Charging at High and Low Temperatures )

Once fully charged through saturation, the battery should not dwell at the topping voltage for more than 48 hours and must be reduced to the float voltage level. This is especially critical for sealed systems because they are less tolerant to overcharge than the flooded type. Charging beyond the specified limits turns redundant energy into heat and the battery begins to gas.

The recommended float voltage of most flooded lead acid batteries is 2.25V to 2.27V/cell. Large stationary batteries at 25°C (77°F) typically float at 2.25V/cell. Manufacturers recommend lowering the float charge when the ambient temperature rises above 29°C (85°F).

Not all chargers feature float charge and very few road vehicles have this provision. If your charger stays on topping charge and does not drop below 2.30V/cell, remove the charge after 48 hours of charging. Recharge every 6 months while in storage; AGM every 6–12 months.

Aging batteries pose a challenge when setting the float charge voltage because each cell has its own unique condition. Connected in a string, all cells receive the same charge current and controlling individual cell voltages as each reaches full capacity is almost impossible. Weak cells may go into overcharge while strong cells remain in a starved state. A float current that is too high for the faded cell might sulfate the strong neighbor due to undercharge. Cell-balancing devices are available compensate for the differences in voltages caused by cell imbalance.

Sulfation changes the AH rating of the battery, so battery learn would be keeping up with current AH of an aging battery as well as learning what the actual AH of a new battery would be. Also read Charge routine for interstate battery requires 12v applied to OBDII, negative cable disconnected, then charging with smart charger for 48 hours, pls ing negative cable and removing 12v from OBD..... Apparently to isolate the battery from the external draws during the charging.

 

[Darryl]

I'm just about to go in and get the camera update. I'd like to get whatever SSMs are available for my 2023 hybrid done while it's still under the 36 month warranty. I'm also tired of the lack of interior lights that come on despite keeping it on a charger when parked in my garage.

What are the SSMs that I can reference to update the ACCM and ABS module as you wrote in this post? A quick google search shows these, not sure how accurate:

SSM 53087
SSM 53801
SSM 54519
SSM 54785

How would you go about asking for them to be done so they don't defer/refuse? Also would you wait on these as my warranty expires in September so I have four more months.

The latest SSM for the battery drain issue is 54785. The SSM number may change if they add another detail. But as of today that's the latest. Also DEFINITELY tell them to do a battery test , a full recharge (if a New battery is not been recently installed and then doing a BMS reset. You should then be good to go on this problem. But to get it done simply tell them that sometimes your battery drains after sitting. Also tell them to perform SSM 52307 for an inaccurate deep sleep notification in your Ford pass app

 

[Darryl]

So that I know what I'm asking for when I go into my dealership.
Are you able to post that special service message?

SSM 54785. And if it's a 2023 or older have them perform SSM 52307 which updates the TCU

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

SSM 54785. And if it's a 2023 or older have them perform SSM 52307 which updates the TCU

Thank you for the SSM #

 

[rslilly76]

I can confirm on the 25 that plugging something into the trailer light's will cause the AGM battery to charge above 92%. Today I plugged in a taillight that goes into the trailer hitch receiver, and it does in fact trigger the charging just like Mavster said it would!

 

[johnDeere]

I can confirm on the 25 that plugging something into the trailer light's will cause the AGM battery to charge above 92%. Today I plugged in a taillight that goes into the trailer hitch receiver, and it does in fact trigger the charging just like Mavster said it would!

That’s good and bad, the good is that it’s charging the battery, the bad is that it’s charging the battery and never stops even when the battery is fully charged , and now it’s over charging the battery.

 

[rslilly76]

That’s good and bad, the good is that it’s charging the battery, the bad is that it’s charging the battery and never stops even when the battery is fully charged , and now it’s over charging the battery.

considering the thing goes into a float mode for charging i seriously doubt it

 

[HeyBales]

That’s good and bad, the good is that it’s charging the battery, the bad is that it’s charging the battery and never stops even when the battery is fully charged , and now it’s over charging the battery.

There are some early thread pictures of when it reaches 100% SOC using this method.

0 Amps. (may have been rounded down from under 1/2 A though)

Unless your extra sensor is showing Amps still going into it at 100% truck BMS SOC.
I wouldn't trust external sensor SOC% as that's based on what?
Not that I trust the built in one greatly either!

So while the voltage potential is higher than perhaps expected, it's just the circuit potential, no current to/from the battery.

Compared to above 92% SOC not using this method - when it's willing to draw from the battery.

 

[Darryl]

considering the thing goes into a float mode for charging i seriously doubt it

Everybody is just over analyzing this thing. Solve the battery drain. Solve the problem. What's that problem is solved, reset the battery monitor, and drive the daggum thing and enjoy the trouble free life. Again at the risk of sounding like a broken record., if anyone is having problems with the battery draining or the battery going bad quickly, get the updates done on the ACCM and on the ABS modules. Reset the battery monitoring system. And just drive the thing like you would normally drive it without doing the excess monitoring. I believe that most if not everyone of your problems will be solved, and your batteries will last a normal length of time. Drive the vehicle like it was designed to be driven. No need to turn on lights, ADD loads etc. the rest of the Maverick owners do not have to do that.

 

[rslilly76]

Everybody is just over analyzing this thing. Solve the battery drain. Solve the problem. What's that problem is solved, reset the battery monitor, and drive the daggum thing and enjoy the trouble free life. Again at the risk of sounding like a broken record., if anyone is having problems with the battery draining or the battery going bad quickly, get the updates done on the ACCM and on the ABS modules. Reset the battery monitoring system. And just drive the thing like you would normally drive it without doing the excess monitoring. I believe that most if not everyone of your problems will be solved, and your batteries will last a normal length of time. Drive the vehicle like it was designed to be driven. No need to turn on lights, ADD loads etc. the rest of the Maverick owners do not have to do that.

solve the battery drain, cool
doesn't solve the problem undercharging an agm or sla prematurely wears the battery out.

You keep crying about the drain and keep dismissing the fact that an undercharged battery is also a problem!

We've even given you the proof! But because you work for Ford you keep pushing what they tell you to push

As I've stated before if you'd show them all this data you would be a hero and probably get a raise or promotion, but apparently you'd rather peddle what your bosses tell you to peddle!

 

[Darryl]

solve the battery drain, cool
doesn't solve the problem undercharging an agm or sla prematurely wears the battery out.

You keep crying about the drain and keep dismissing the fact that an undercharged battery is also a problem!

We've even given you the proof! But because you work for Ford you keep pushing what they tell you to push

As I've stated before if you'd show them all this data you would be a hero and probably get a raise or promotion, but apparently you'd rather peddle what your bosses tell you to peddle!

All I am saying is that the batteries are not wearing out early on the cars that don't have the battery drain. I know what your theory says. And I understand. But I'm telling you what is not happening on the ground. Every battery that is failing prematurely also has a drain. On everyone where the drain is fixed the battery lasts. Most of The Mavericks that don't have the battery drain issue are still on their original battery. And the ones who don't have the drain have a battery failure rate about the same as the rest of the vehicles. And my bosses are not telling me to peddle anything. I'm speaking on my observations.

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