Hybrid 12V Battery Charging

[The Real Maverick]

I have been saving the logs from my battery monitor and have built a excel tool that lets me graph any time frame. Below is the last 2 days. I drove to and from work twice and then after dinner yesterday I made a quick run to the gas station to get gas for our mower. The battery gained more charge (both in voltage and SoC) in the two very short back to back trips then it does on a 15-20 minute commute to work and back?

My Ford App is still useless as my truck is still in deep sleep, but I still have not had to jump it with my booster pack so I guess its doing what it is designed to do by going into deep sleep.

I logged in mine the truck uses about 5% of the 12v battery charge in the first 90 minutes after parking. Then all quiet after that. I think that is consistent with the dip you are seeing as well, right after parking.

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[HeyBales]

I was curious since I didn't see mentioned in a couple threads, the setting for BCM Battery Design.

AGM or Flooded was mentioned as options. (guessing option for Flooded Sealed is the normal desired option).
But what are the options for Improved Flooded, and Sealed version of that, which is more likely true?

Not finding much info on that.

Also noticed the BCM Battery Type setting:
Varta 52Ah 500CCA H5 case
Varta 60Ah 600CCA H6 case
Varta 60Ah 600CCA H5 case

Not as many options as prior hybrids are reported to have. Is that being selected on battery replacement? Or does car figure that out during Learn process, since even the manual says battery can be swapped by DIYer?
Seems like SOC would need accuracy of starting point depending on either 52 or 60 Ah.

What I don't get is that setting only has H5 or H6 sizes, but the other setting for case has all the sizes that I wouldn't think would fit:
T4 to T9
96R & 67R
H4 to H9

Sadly I was looking at PID in chart mode so got no settings for those as to what I currently have.

I do have about constant 60% SOC on it though thru a few drives observing. hmmm - problems on the horizon...

 

[dmopro]

What terminals did you attach your battery monitor to?

 

[NedF]

What terminals did you attach your battery monitor to?

I attached the monitor to the battery terminals before the BMS.

 

[dmopro]

Thank You, got one on order for my Hybrid

 

[HeyBales]

Well, curiosity got me.

The BMS was reporting mostly around 60% SOC during drives, sometimes up to 65% on longer drive, usually around 4A with expected 14-14.5 V.
Resting stats looked fine, claimed a tad under 60% on some mornings.

So I just did a full charge to 100% on Schumacher smart charger.

BMS reported 75% SOC now. Hmmm, appears it doesn't seem to know what a full charge is.

So I did the Reset routine. And put it to sleep to relearn.
I wonder if it'll dream.

Actually I wonder how well it'll sleep being 94 F out.

ETA:
Results.
BMS reported 12.9V @ 84% SOC, 1A draw with Ign On.
(still doesn't seem like correct SOC level even if some used overnight).

On driving in - 14.4V for just a bit until it dropped to 12.9V @ 84% still, 0A draw.

 

[dlll]

I dont drive mine but say 1 time on the week ends. This is not my everyday driver. has 1200 miles since purchase in February, was getting deep sleep on a regular basis. Chaged the battery to a h5 Interstate agm . Still would get deep sleep, I purchased a 7watt solar panel and havent had a problem again.

 

[mcluvin]

Got about 3400 miles on mine since March. Switched to an H5 AGM within first month. Set it to charge to 95% and radio and USB ports off within 10 seconds of vehicle shutdown. Driven short trips most days. No deep sleep issues so far.

 

[HeyBales]

Well, curiosity got me.

The BMS was reporting mostly around 60% SOC during drives, sometimes up to 65% on longer drive, usually around 4A with expected 14-14.5 V.
Resting stats looked fine, claimed a tad under 60% on some mornings.

So I just did a full charge to 100% on Schumacher smart charger.

BMS reported 75% SOC now. Hmmm, appears it doesn't seem to know what a full charge is.

So I did the Reset routine. And put it to sleep to relearn.
I wonder if it'll dream.

Actually I wonder how well it'll sleep being 94 F out.

ETA:
Results.
BMS reported 12.9V @ 84% SOC, 1A draw with Ign On.
(still doesn't seem like correct SOC level even if some used overnight).

On driving in - 14.4V for just a bit until it dropped to 12.9V @ 84% still, 0A draw.

Due to a thread where dealership was trying to confirm if a parasitic draw existed, their stated process after a battery charge to 100% or new battery also confirmed 100%, was BMS reset, drive for 15-30 min, park overnight or 24 hrs.
(end of that story - there was a TCU draw, battery at about 70% SOC next day - they replaced TCU - pretty sure they didn't use the truck's BMS reading of battery levels)

Since I'd been seeing a tad under 60% to maybe getting up to 65%, according to BMS system reading, I was going to do the same process.

Battery on charger, from engine bay points. About 1 hr was charged and on maintenance level charge for 4 more hrs.

Disconnected charger and immediately BMS in the PID reading said 71% - so BMS had no clue what level battery was at - sad. BMS reset via Forscan Lite, blinking light confirmation.

15 min drive - during which SOC remained 71%, also PIDs said 14.5 V, 0.0 A. (DCDC LowCurrent side said 23 A)

Unplugged everything and fob locked, over 9 hr sit to sleep and learn.

Morning read after plugging in OBD2 reader, starting truck, and kicking on engine for my 30 sec warmup.
SOC 77%, which during drive went up to 79%. Also 14.6 V, 7.0 A. (DCDC LowCurrent said 30 A)

Move the truck to shade at lunch, no engine start - 70% SOC.

I'm going to say not only did it not sleep and learn well - it got dummer. Thanks BMS.

So on fully charged battery, it thought 71% SOC.
After learning session, and whatever drain occurred overnight, it thought 77%. During some driving got to 79% (so there's that hard limit of 80%)

So was that BMS reading of 77% correct in morning, and it really dropped 13% from testing process but it did figure out where 100% is?
Or it still has it underrated by a decent amount, and the 80% limit is actually closer to 100% due to that?
Or that's still wrong, and it maybe should be reading higher?

I'm going to see if Forscan Lite has a battery testing service in it - if not got another adapter & app that does. Or break out the multi-meter once I recall who I loaned it too.
Also going to see if the TCU has a restart process for it, like most the modules do in Forscan Lite.

Ugh Ford - can you make dealing with smallish batteries any worse?

 

[Sleengr]

No alternator on a hybrid, the 12V battery is charged by the HV battery via the DC - DC inverter. It looks like there is a lot of charging after parking as well.

It’s true there is no conventional alternation, but Toyota called it a generator, which is what Ford also has. When the engine is on, power is flowed through to the electric motor and a planetary gear to change speed (eCVT) for the road. And a separate current flow to the 12v battery to recharge. A YT vídeo showed a mechanic completely revamp the battery connections next to the fuse box because he thought the original design was poor.

 

[NedF]

It’s true there is no conventional alternation, but Toyota called it a generator, which is what Ford also has. When the engine is on, power is flowed through to the electric motor and a planetary gear to change speed (eCVT) for the road. And a separate current flow to the 12v battery to recharge. A YT vídeo showed a mechanic completely revamp the battery connections next to the fuse box because he thought the original design was poor.

You are correct in that the MG1 (Motor Generator 1) and MG2 do work as generators but nether directly charge the 12v battery. All of the charging goes to the HV battery and the HV battery is used to charge the 12v battery via a DC/DC inverter to step down the voltage. MG1 can charge the HV battery when the ICE is running and MV2 charges when braking. Even when the ICE is off and the truck is running on electric (or in ACC) the 12v battery is being charged.

 

[Sleengr]

So most likely the DC/Dc converter or software failed intermittently.

 

[Sleengr]

So most likely the DC/Dc converter or software failed intermittently.

 

[The Real Maverick]

You are correct in that the MG1 (Motor Generator 1) and MG2 do work as generators but nether directly charge the 12v battery. All of the charging goes to the HV battery and the HV battery is used to charge the 12v battery via a DC/DC inverter to step down the voltage. MG1 can charge the HV battery when the ICE is running and MV2 charges when braking. Even when the ICE is off and the truck is running on electric (or in ACC) the 12v battery is being charged.

This truck has two alternators.
The traction motor at the wheels is AC (alternating current) and the smaller starter/motor/generator is also AC.

AC is soooooo much easier to control and finesse that all the "work" in the truck is done with alternating current. But, as you know, batteries can only be charged with direct current, so there are massive inverters and rectifiers.

 

[The Real Maverick]

Back on the main topic:

When driving 6 days a week, my 12 volt battery was hanging out in the 12.1 to 12.3 range and the truck's guess was consistently 60% to 65% charged.

I let it sit 1 week.

Voltage was now 11.7 - 11.8 and truck's guess was 42% SOC.

Went for a one hour drive.
Truck's guess at SOC rose from 42% to 51% after being held at 15.3V during the one hour drive.

The ONLY time my 12v battery hit a truck PID reported 99% was after a 5 day in a row cross-country road trip.

WHEN FORD SAYS "DRIVE IT MORE TO CHARGE IT" they must mean 8 hours a day, every day. That's what worked for me!!!!

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