Hybrid Transmission Question

[mamboman777]

Ok.... So it's really confusing. According to this, Ford independently developed a similar system. Who really knows?

"Ford Motor Company independently developed a system with key technologies similar to Toyota's HSD technology in 2004. As a result, Ford licensed 21 patents from Toyota in exchange for patents relating to emissions technology.[38]"

Here's the link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive

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[Darnon]

Actually, it looks like they both outsourced their hybrid transmissions to Aisin. I believe the transmission in the hybrid Maverick is the first to be built totally in house.

The HF35 and HF45, Ford's 3rd and 4th generation eCVT with the Maverick's being a modified version of the latter, were produced in-house with the electric motor components produced by Toshiba.

 

[mamboman777]

The HF35 and HF45, Ford's 3rd and 4th generation eCVT with the Maverick's being a modified version of the latter, were produced in-house with the electric motor components produced by Toshiba.

Thank you for clarifying. I wasn't trying to insinuate that previous generation eCVT's weren't built in house, but that this one is the first one built completely in house. Thank you for your knowledgeable response!

 

[Tking]

Regarding creep at a complete stop: I am assuming there will be creep because the little button on the center console that has the "hand" symbol (the one that many reviewer don't know what it's for) is to hold the vehicle stopped with the driver's foot off the brake.

It's in the manual.

 

[mamboman777]

Regarding creep at a complete stop: I am assuming there will be creep because the little button on the center console that has the "hand" symbol (the one that many reviewer don't know what it's for) is to hold the vehicle stopped with the driver's foot off the brake.

It's in the manual.

That doesn't necessarily mean that there's creep. This could be for holding the car from moving backwards if on an incline.

 

[Big_T]

That doesn't necessarily mean that there's creep. This could be for holding the car from moving backwards if on an incline.

Well, yes and no....

 

[fbov]

Ford licensed the technology from Toyota for it's Hybrids.

I believe the eCVT tech came from Toyota though, they have patents on it.

Toyota's "power split device" was invented by TRW in the early 1970's. Motor and battery technology needed another generation to mature, so the patent expired before Toyota used it.

I believe the transmission in the hybrid Maverick is the first to be built totally in house.

Second... HF35 was the first in-house. The first two Escape Hybrids had the Aisin drivetrains.
Weber State did a nice job reviewing the Ford lineage (but has yet to fulfill the HF45 promise).

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Toyota's "power split device" was invented by TRW in the early 1970's. Motor and battery technology needed another generation to mature, so the patent expired before Toyota used it.

Second... HF35 was the first in-house. The first two Escape Hybrids had the Aisin drivetrains.
Weber State did a nice job reviewing the Ford lineage (but has yet to fulfill the HF45 promise).

I noticed in one Weber state video John was going over the HF35 which has three planet gears and near the end when he was talking about reviewing the HF45 as soon as he could get one, I had a moment. I believe it will have 4 planet gears (HF35 has 3 so HF45 will have 4?). The 4th planet is needed to regulate the power through a separate differential within the gear set for the rear wheels? It seems logical but I fully expect that the AWD Maverick will have a separate electric powered motor with a differential in the rear.

 

[fbov]

I had a moment. I believe it will have 4 planet gears (HF35 has 3 so HF45 will have 4?)

I saw HF35 as Gen3 and HF45 as Gen4. All four Ford Escape hybrid/C-Max transmission have the same gear train.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I saw HF35 as Gen3 and HF45 as Gen4. All four Ford Escape hybrid/C-Max transmission have the same gear train.

He was specifically stating that Ford was working on one with a 4 planet set so I saw that as a way to distribute power from an additional source. Could be for many things/reasons possibly for extra motor generator to increase Charging capacity or for a second drive motor probably for an all wheel drive. Would allow for easy control differences needed between front and rear. Would provide for seperate braking controls even braking rear while accelerating front

 

[fbov]

He was specifically stating that Ford was working on one with a 4 planet set...

I kind of ignored the fact that planetary gear sets have three elements, sun, ring and planets. Where would you put a fourth?

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I kind of ignored the fact that planetary gear sets have three elements, sun, ring and planets. Where would you put a fourth?

4 planets vs 3 planets. If you wanted to combine any number of engines and or motors or any device you can think of which needs to operate give it a "planet" (dang! This thing has 9 planets!???) following around the sun. Can combine 4 cyl diesel and 8 cyl gas and 2 elec motor / generators to power drive train.

 

[cyberdog]

TFL has a towing test with the Hybrid, and did backup their just under 2000 lbs trailer setup. He specifically mentioned the lack of a reverse gear, so reverse must be entirely done via the electric traction motor. - Of course, as I posted in another thread, the question arises, what if the traction motor is basically depleted, can you still reverse, or will the ICE fire up and provide sufficient current to reverse out of a spot?

 

[clavicus]

He was specifically stating that Ford was working on one with a 4 planet set so I saw that as a way to distribute power from an additional source. Could be for many things/reasons possibly for extra motor generator to increase Charging capacity or for a second drive motor probably for an all wheel drive. Would allow for easy control differences needed between front and rear. Would provide for seperate braking controls even braking rear while accelerating front

I'm sorry what the heck are you guys talking about regarding extra planet gears? They are all on the same planet carrier no matter how many there are -- the planet carrier is a spindle physically attached to the ICE crankshaft. There's no 'extra input' from an extra planet, or otherwise I (once again) completely misunderstand the planetary gearset.

Edit: are you talking about additional transfer gears?

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