Sponsored

Understanding Chip Shortages

clippedwings

Well-known member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Sep 1, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
312
Reaction score
481
Location
U.S. West
Vehicle(s)
2016 Ford Transit Connect
A heads-up for anyone who wants to understand more about what's behind the current shortage of chips - The October 11 issue of TIME magazine contains a most informative article on the world of chip-making, and it's influence on commerce and politics. A "must read."
Sponsored

 

widetrax

Well-known member
First Name
lester
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
50
Reaction score
35
Location
meridian ms
Vehicle(s)
2019 bmw
A heads-up for anyone who wants to understand more about what's behind the current shortage of chips - The October 11 issue of TIME magazine contains a most informative article on the world of chip-making, and it's influence on commerce and politics. A "must read."
 

charlie

Well-known member
First Name
Charlie
Joined
Jun 16, 2021
Threads
5
Messages
53
Reaction score
127
Location
Oregon
Vehicle(s)
2002 F150
A heads-up for anyone who wants to understand more about what's behind the current shortage of chips - The October 11 issue of TIME magazine contains a most informative article on the world of chip-making, and it's influence on commerce and politics. A "must read."
Link???
 
OP
OP
clippedwings

clippedwings

Well-known member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Sep 1, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
312
Reaction score
481
Location
U.S. West
Vehicle(s)
2016 Ford Transit Connect
Link? High points? Some of you have been spoiled by the internet, which seems to save you from all effort. This is an ANALOG source, and it's lengthy- you remember...the PRINTED word. It's not my job to sit here and create a synopsis for you. Either you have enough interest to chase it down or you don't.
 

Sponsored

The Weatherman

2.0L EcoBoost
Well-known member
First Name
Dean
Joined
Jul 20, 2021
Threads
21
Messages
2,461
Reaction score
3,491
Location
KY
Vehicle(s)
2022 Maverick Lariat Lux FX4 4K x 2
Engine
2.0L EcoBoost
I’m sure there will be one in the Dentist office, because dealing with the chip shortage‘s affect on our Maverick production is like having a root canal.
 

WesM

2.5L Hybrid
Well-known member
First Name
Wes
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Threads
18
Messages
896
Reaction score
1,613
Location
Maryland USA
Vehicle(s)
Ford Maverick
Engine
2.5L Hybrid
Link? High points? Some of you have been spoiled by the internet, which seems to save you from all effort. This is an ANALOG source, and it's lengthy- you remember...the PRINTED word. It's not my job to sit here and create a synopsis for you. Either you have enough interest to chase it down or you don't.
I'm good with free and open source, thanks. Semiconductor issues are widely covered by numerous reputable sources without having to go out and pay $10 for a magazine.

Leave the spoiled/high horse crap elsewhere. A couple people asked what you thought the highpoints were and your response was frankly just rude.

Here is an interesting article I read on TSMC today

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/16/tsm...-ramping-production-to-end-chip-shortage.html
 
OP
OP
clippedwings

clippedwings

Well-known member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Sep 1, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
312
Reaction score
481
Location
U.S. West
Vehicle(s)
2016 Ford Transit Connect
I had no intention of being rude. If there was an online source for the article I would have gladly posted it. I'm aware that not many people pay for magazines in this era. My wife does because her father was one of the first subscribers of TIME, almost 100 years ago, and she has kept up the habit. Most of it's content can be found in alternate sources these days, but every now and then they print a really informative article that is in-depth and original. Again...if you have access, this one might make you aware of things most casual readers did not know about the chip industry, which was the case for me.
 

Eagle11

2.5L Hybrid
Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2021
Threads
17
Messages
1,948
Reaction score
1,646
Location
Valley of the Sun
Vehicle(s)
'07 Boxster S, 2018 BMW M5, Ducati's, Suzuki's
Engine
2.5L Hybrid
Clubs
 
Link? High points? Some of you have been spoiled by the internet, which seems to save you from all effort. This is an ANALOG source, and it's lengthy- you remember...the PRINTED word. It's not my job to sit here and create a synopsis for you. Either you have enough interest to chase it down or you don't.
The correct thing to go is to get a link, not everyone has a subscription to Time Mag. You can hank me later..

https://time.com/6102879/semiconductor-chip-shortage-tsmc/
 
Sponsored

Stevospeedo

Banned
Banned
First Name
Steve
Joined
Oct 14, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
101
Reaction score
154
Location
Maine
Vehicle(s)
Lariat AWD FX4 4K Towing 245/65R17 Falken WP A/T3W
Here is a summary of chip shortages:

1. Chip shortages exist across all industries due to high demand and global supply chain issues.
2. Raw silicon wafers which chips are printed on are a current constraint for all industries.
3. Automotive companies cancelled a lot of orders at the beginning of pandemic anticipating low demand and messing up their just in time supply chains.
4. Automotive compnies use old chip technology to save on recertifying systems. In many cases these chips are 90nm which yield less chips per silicon wafer further compounding chip availability issues. 14nm fabs are sitting idle that could produce more chips per wafer and be much more efficient as well.
5. Many chip fabricators that produce the older chips were hit by disasters that destroyed equipment or throttled down manufacturing. No one will invest in building any more of these fabs in the future because they are already obsolete.
6. The semiconductor production industry has seen unprecendented consolidation in the last two decades with mainly 3 companies globally supplying the vast majority of chips (TSMC, Samsung, Intel). Chip fabs still exist in the US to some degree, but Taiwan and Korea are the biggest producers globally. Intel and TSMC are investing in building new fabs in the US but it will be a few years before they are online and they will be the latest nodes which the auto industry will have to adapt to.
7. Auto manufacturers also need to start putting in orders years in advance like the other big players if they want to secure enough production when they need it.
 

Sliphorn

2.5L Hybrid
Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
336
Reaction score
537
Location
Missouri
Vehicle(s)
2022 Ford Maverick XLT Hybrid
Engine
2.5L Hybrid
..
It seems to me that the auto industry needs to get off of their rear ends and engineer their systems to accept modern chip technology. And also make their own chips.
..
 

giddyup

2.0L EcoBoost
Well-known member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Jan 16, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
129
Reaction score
190
Location
Michigan
Vehicle(s)
Escape, Maverick
Engine
2.0L EcoBoost
..
It seems to me that the auto industry needs to get off of their rear ends and engineer their systems to accept modern chip technology. And also make their own chips.
..
It's true that the auto industry would benefit from moving to more modern CPU architectures (ARM, e.g.). One obstacle is that modern architectures lack some important features found in legacy devices (PowerPC, Aurix, etc) such as memory management, communication & sensor interfaces (CAN/CAN-FD, LIN, A/D, I2C, etc), calibration support, and so on. Many modern CPUs also lack support for ASIL safety requirements, clock management for EMC, etc.

Given the economies of scale in the ARM world it seems likely that automotive ECU designers will move that direction but it will take a while for the supply base to gain experience developing for the new architectures. Auto OEMs tend to be risk averse and are typically slow to adopt new tech.

I don't agree that OEMs should be designing their own CPUs. They tried to do it in the 80s/90s but the business case usually doesn't pan out and those devices typically became obsolete quickly. They need to take advantage of the huge economy of scale by using devices and tooling from the consumer electronic space.
 

Stevospeedo

Banned
Banned
First Name
Steve
Joined
Oct 14, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
101
Reaction score
154
Location
Maine
Vehicle(s)
Lariat AWD FX4 4K Towing 245/65R17 Falken WP A/T3W
It's true that the auto industry would benefit from moving to more modern CPU architectures (ARM, e.g.). One obstacle is that modern architectures lack some important features found in legacy devices (PowerPC, Aurix, etc) such as memory management, communication & sensor interfaces (CAN/CAN-FD, LIN, A/D, I2C, etc), calibration support, and so on. Many modern CPUs also lack support for ASIL safety requirements, clock management for EMC, etc.

Given the economies of scale in the ARM world it seems likely that automotive ECU designers will move that direction but it will take a while for the supply base to gain experience developing for the new architectures. Auto OEMs tend to be risk averse and are typically slow to adopt new tech.

I don't agree that OEMs should be designing their own CPUs. They tried to do it in the 80s/90s but the business case usually doesn't pan out and those devices typically became obsolete quickly. They need to take advantage of the huge economy of scale by using devices and tooling from the consumer electronic space.
I definitely agree with what you are saying here. There is a reason they clung to old designs, but all of those things can be added to modern ARM chips too. Instead of individual OEMs they should likely pull their resources and work with bigger semi designers to create new standard chips and then certify them for wider industry use. It is a commodity product and there is nothing to be gained with proprietary designs for most systems. Standardization is good for certification and availability. You can then take your design to different vendors for production.
Sponsored

 
 




Top