Price gouging dealership

[BMCGC]

That data is 11 years old. Wonder what it is today?

Sponsored

 

[MysticRob]

I can see why clippedwings feels as he does, though I'd offer Hanlon's razor as an explanation for what he saw.
It is still very possible the dealership in his case was acting maliciously, as they know anyone buying a new, and as-yet, still limited-supply vehicle means the purchase decision is likely more emotional (again with the "gotta have it now" crowd mentality), and the dealer knows they may get away with certain predatory practices easier than if the lot was full of those same vehicles (same goes for real estate, or anything else).
MightyMaverick's post about a guy STILL willing to pay a $5k ADM (negotiated down from $10k?!?) for a Bronco is a great example. Bidding wars on homes is the same way during manic market phases. Most of that crap is made up by used house salesmen (I'm sorry Real Estate Agents --- gotta make it sound classy) to get a higher commission.

Patience and education are the key with any decision. clippedwings made the right decision walking away, and as huunvubu points out it's always a good idea to come into any financial decision wide-eyed, suspicious, and educated.

My Dad was a GM dealership mechanic for forty+ years and said he saw some pretty shady stuff pulled by dealers, but then again he also saw quite a few idiot customers willing to fork over money for product and/or service.

One of my favorite and educational stories was of a customer having his car inspected for a bad odor in his Saturn sedan. My Dad got the car, sniffed out the odor, and found an old rotten bag of asparagus in the trunk. Customer paid a $150 "diagnostic fee" for the removal of food.

Now I ask, just how dumb/gullible do you have to be to allow yourself to be put in a position where you pay $150 for something like that? In the same vein, how could a dealership still be willing to charge such a huge amount for 5min of work?

 

[MysticRob]

That data is 11 years old. Wonder what it is today?

Straight from the CA DMV -- $85:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handb...reparation-and-electronic-filing-service-fee/

 

[BMCGC]

Straight from the CA DMV -- $85:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handb...reparation-and-electronic-filing-service-fee/

That's a 55% increase in 11 years.

My $799 doc fee is a bit larger than I have paid in the past. I blame that on Covid. My dealer has one salesman working, one sales manager and one finance manager. That's it except for the service department. They have about 20 new vehicles on the lot.

 

[TSAINTS1115]

That's a 55% increase in 11 years.

My $799 doc fee is a bit larger than I have paid in the past. I blame that on Covid. My dealer has one salesman working, one sales manager and one finance manager. That's it except for the service department. They have about 20 new vehicles on the lot.

Nowadays Docs are not hand written. They enter the details an a computer kicks it all out. Any fee over $100-150 is theft and should be negotiated down.

 

[DryHeat]

But I've heard that if you order a vehicle, you have to get it as MSRP and nothing more. That's the rule.

Not sure where you heard that that is the rule. Plenty of examples on here that it is not.

 

[TSAINTS1115]

Here’s my 2¢:
I have NOOOO problem with a dealer having a car on their lot and marking it up to any price. MSRP is the manufacturer’s SUGGESTED retail price. If the MSRP is $30,000, I literally have no problem with the dealer asking $1,030,00 if they want. If some nut is willing to pay a million dollars over sticker, that’s their choice. Here’s where I DO have a problem:
Someone orders a car for $30,000…. the car comes in, and then the dealer wants $35,000.
THAT’S dirty play.
Biggggggg difference!!!
Ask ANY price you want, but honor the deal after you make it! If that happens to me when my Maverick arrives, you’ll hear about it in the news, so will the dealer’s surviving family members

Unless you have a signed sales contract with all the numbers spelled out and signed by the sales mgr they can change the price all they want. I do endorse your solution though.

 

[BMCGC]

Nowadays Docs are not hand written. They enter the details an a computer kicks it all out. Any fee over $100-150 is theft and should be negotiated down.

Everyone telling me they are paying zero or a $100-150 doc fee can post their buyers order or contract.

According to the list posted, in 2011 only five states had doc fees under an average of $100.

 

[DryHeat]

Here's an observation -- not aimed at anyone in particular.

I see posts on here over and over where the writer says, essentially, "I don't know if I have a locked in price and I just hope I don't get gouged with additional dealer markup when the truck arrives."

Instead of just "hoping," anyone in that position can go to their dealer and ask for a binding contract, signed by both parties, with all prices specified. If they get it, fine. If they don't, then they know there is likely a problem.

The worst time to find out that there is a problem is when the truck is sitting there in front of you and the dealer says, "That'll be an additional $5,000." That's when you are at your weakest and the dealer is at his strongest.

I don't know if it's possible to contact Ford, explain the situation, and cancel the delivery. But the earlier you find out the better you can at least try (or threaten) to do that. Once the dealer has the car on the lot, it's money in his pocket.

 

[clippedwings]

Another suspicious move , and an oversight on my end: On this forum it was suggested that we get a DORA from the dealer to substantiate our confirmed order. Since, at this point, I had no documentation at all, except text messages with images of documents, I decided to get off my lazy butt and drive 75 miles to the dealer and demand a copy of my DORA. They provided me with a text printout of my supposed DORA, NOT a photocopy of the actual document, a receipt for my $500 down payment, and a printed copy of my preview order, which contains my build info and the final OTD price, hand-written on the order. I felt elated at the time - just having “evidence” that I was in the system (the DORA), making me feel better about the whole situation, even though no response ever came (and still hasn’t) from FORD. Later that evening I realize that I had blown it. They still didn’t provide a signed buyer’s order. We had never created one! The salesperson later texted me a hazy image of what appeared to be the order sheet, saying this was what they had submitted to the system. I took this with a grain of salt, as the order had no signatures. Still, sales insisted that this was what they submitted, and because we did our deal over the phone they had to use a “text conversion." More recently I complained that I would feel better if I had a copy in hand, they emailed me a PDF with a copy of my sales order that was completely unintelligible. With great effort I can make out my name typed at the top. That’s all. I am forced to consider that my preview order on which they hand wrote the OTD price, is the most “legal” document I have which protects my price. As probably the largest Ford dealer in my state, I can’t believe they will pull any stunts when/if my vehicle shows up. All can do is be prepared to walk if necessary.

 

[TSAINTS1115]

Everyone telling me they are paying zero or a $100-150 doc fee can post their buyers order or contract.

According to the list posted, in 2011 only five states had doc fees under an average of $100.

I'm not going to go dig the paperwork out of the truck but I paid $200 and didn't care as I was happy to find an acceptable Maverick at MSRP. But I can tell you NOBODY would attempt anything over $300 (prices I've seen advertised) on docs here. (central IL)

 

[BMCGC]

I signed a buyers order, so I am on the hook.

It also protects me from a price change.

I have a $500 military incentive that will drop the price on the sales contract.

It sounds like there are some shady dealers out here that stay in business because people will not walk away.

 

[MysticRob]

That's a 55% increase in 11 years.

My $799 doc fee is a bit larger than I have paid in the past. I blame that on Covid. My dealer has one salesman working, one sales manager and one finance manager. That's it except for the service department. They have about 20 new vehicles on the lot.

I'd blame it on the dealership. States do not require dealerships to charge documentation fees. But (big BUT here) some states do require dealerships in those states to charge all their customers the same amount IF they do charge customers a doc fee.
I'm not sure about your state of GA, so your particular dealership might have to charge everyone the same by law, or maybe not.
Some states do impose caps on the amounts dealerships CAN charge, like CA, which is a max of $85 now.

$800 in your case for about an hour's worth of paperwork is a pretty good profit to me. And you can definitely haggle the entire OTD (out the door) price of the car, based solely on the fact that the dealership in your case already has ~$800 of profit locked in simply from the doc fees they charged you.

Some interesting Georgia reading here (granted, from 2017 and laws may have changed since then) regarding doc fees (and ETR fees) and advertised price :
https://giada.org/message-executive-director-april-2017/

EDIT/UPDATE: I got curious and found something from 2018 that Georgia has (at least in 2018) no requirement on what dealers can charge (or must charge all) customers for documentation fees, so dealers can charge whoever, whenever, whatever they want:
https://sleuthforthetruth.com/car-dealers-illegal-dealer-fees-georgia/

 

[clippedwings]

I think that’s what my dealer here was claiming - they have to charge everyone the same fee. I think they wanted something on the order of $330 here. Since I’ve never done a TTL on my own, maybe I’ll regret not accepting it if the paperwork turns out to be horrendous!

 

[Blessedintx]

Difference being that the vast majority don't NEED a Maverick. We do need food and other essentials.

Exactly. Not an equal comparison.

Sponsored