Motorcraft 5W-30 Full Synthetic

[Darryl]

Following the OLM for the relatively simple 2.5L hybrid engine is probably fine, but there is a long, long line of ecoboost family engines that have had major issues rooted in poor design + oil change intervals that are too long. It's not just one thing though, it's a combination of decreased piston ring tension, turbocharging, and oil driven VVT and timing chains (or wet timing belts...). This issue isn't limited to Ford though, it's common with many engines that have gone down that path for more fuel economy at the expense of reliability.

Truth be told, most Ecoboost failures of the (mostly old design) 4 cylinder are rooted in cooling system failure rather than oil issues. We had some lubrication issues with 1st gen 3.5 EcoBoost. But when I looked at the history, most had gone BEYOND the recommended intervals or used conventional oil instead of synthetic blend. Of course no harm is done by changing oil more frequently than required. It's just not required in most cases. Some also try to get by with low quality oil filters too. That will allow premature damage too. When I remove the valve cover for gasket replacement on most engines, there is usually no sludge as was common years ago in the era of oils meeting only the SE,SF, and SG standards. Most old engines didn't have oil coolers either.

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[zen_]

Truth be told, most Ecoboost failures of the (mostly old design) 4 cylinder are rooted in cooling system failure rather than oil issues. We had some lubrication issues with 1st gen 3.5 EcoBoost. But when I looked at the history, most had gone BEYOND the recommended intervals or used conventional oil instead of synthetic blend. Of course no harm is done by changing oil more frequently than required. It's just not required in most cases. Some also try to get by with low quality oil filters too. That will allow premature damage too. When I remove the valve cover for gasket replacement on most engines, there is usually no sludge as was common years ago in the era of oils meeting only the SE,SF, and SG standards. Most old engines didn't have oil coolers either.

I don't doubt a good number of issues were rooted in not doing oil changes on time (by the OLM), cheaping out oil at quick service places that still upcharge a lot for synthetic, and / or not staying on top of replacement oil in engines with consumption. Many cases of owners who did things by the book though and still had major issues.

Not claiming our AI overlords are the source of truth here either, but even when I went to go lookup the cam phaser issues and suggested best practice:

For Ford vehicles, especially those with EcoBoost engines known for cam phaser issues, it is highly recommended to change the oil and filter every 5,000 miles using full synthetic oil, or sooner, rather than relying on the oil life monitor or extending intervals. This shorter interval helps prevent wear and protects components from the high demands of turbocharged engines, which can otherwise lead to cam phaser failure.



Why a Shorter Interval is Crucial

• Engine Demand:
  EcoBoost engines put significant stress on the oil, leading to increased wear and tear on components like the cam phasers.
  

• Oil Quality:
  Using full synthetic oil and changing it frequently helps prevent excessive soot and debris from circulating in the engine, which can cause critical component failures.
  
  
• Preventing Failure:
  Extended oil change intervals have been linked to stretched timing chains and premature cam phaser issues in these engines.
  
  
• Oil Life Monitor:
  The vehicle's oil life monitor is not a reliable guide for engines with cam phaser issues; it should be ignored in favor of a consistent, shorter maintenance schedule.
  

Recommended Maintenance Practice

• Frequency: Perform an oil change every 5,000 miles, or more often if you frequently tow or drive in harsh conditions.
  

• Oil Type: Always use a full synthetic oil.
  
  
• Filter: Always replace the oil filter at the same time as the oil.
  
  
• Monitor: Follow the 5,000-mile interval or even sooner; do not rely on the vehicle's oil life system.

• 
  

 

[Snox801]

Damn Cherokee, you’ve got more miles on you and your vehicles than NASA has on its Space Shuttles! But you’re right, I started driving way before oil analysis was heard about, always changed my oil and filters religiously and have never had a problem with many an engine, (back when I used to do everything myself).

What both you kinda miss is back then oil analysis wasn’t as easy or common. Oil was not as good hence 3k mile service. I to have had many many vehicles go well beyond 350k.
But the fact is we are getting more power out of a small displacement engine than most those his vehicles listed combined.
Things change and we should embrace them. I’m sure at one point someone said I built this whole house without a tape measure. Why would someone need that? Oil analysis is a measuring tool. Helps collect data. No more no less. Again it’s the only real way to know.

 

[Snox801]

Following the OLM for the relatively simple 2.5L hybrid engine is probably fine, but there is a long, long line of ecoboost family engines that have had major issues rooted in poor design + oil change intervals that are too long. It's not just one thing though, it's a combination of decreased piston ring tension, turbocharging, and oil driven VVT and timing chains (or wet timing belts...). This issue isn't limited to Ford though, it's common with many engines that have gone down that path for more fuel economy at the expense of reliability.

That is true but we also have a lot of data proving it was the wrong oils. I’ve been in the ecoboost game for a long time. I’ve seen the standards change fast. Hell just look at the Manuel transmission Mustang and focus st and rs. They had a lot of oil related failures that some that chose amsoil, motul, or several others didn’t have. Because the motorcraft oil didn’t do what it was needed to do.
It seems they have fixed that lately but again oils change for intended use. I used to fall into the ecoboost camp of change it early because all you listed. Then I let science lead and did analysis. I can go to 0 percent on my monitor and still have at least 2k miles of extra protection. I even run a lot of e30 and full e85 in my 3.5.
I’m not high mileage yet on my maverick only 87k miles. But my past few went well past 400k

 

[zen_]

That is true but we also have a lot of data proving it was the wrong oils. I’ve been in the ecoboost game for a long time. I’ve seen the standards change fast. Hell just look at the Manuel transmission Mustang and focus st and rs. They had a lot of oil related failures that some that chose amsoil, motul, or several others didn’t have. Because the motorcraft oil didn’t do what it was needed to do.
It seems they have fixed that lately but again oils change for intended use. I used to fall into the ecoboost camp of change it early because all you listed. Then I let science lead and did analysis. I can go to 0 percent on my monitor and still have at least 2k miles of extra protection. I even run a lot of e30 and full e85 in my 3.5.
I’m not high mileage yet on my maverick only 87k miles. But my past few went well past 400k

That's definitely fair if you're doing the analysis and have high mileage vehicles, but I also suspect you have to be doing a lot of highway driving to be racking up that kind of mileage. The Cruze with the crappy 1.4L ecotech I may have mentioned in this thread did just fine with 15K mile intervals using the (new at the time) M1 EP and fram ultra filters, but they were 95%+ highway miles. Main issue with that engine was the ronald mcdonald grade plastic used for all the cooling components and water pump that must have been made somewhere in the Khyber pass.

Anecdotally that car also had an under-filled manual transmission that I had to swap out with AMSOIL gear oil to make last longer now that I remember.

I don't know though, just seems like so many knowledgeable mechanics that are not getting kickbacks from motor oil companies, or getting rich doing 0.3 hour oil changes say change your oil at 5K with current engines, period because they don't like seeing people ruined by a new engine bill or mechanical totals.

 

[Cherokee]

Damn Cherokee, you’ve got more miles on you and your vehicles than NASA has on its Space Shuttles! But you’re right, I started driving way before oil analysis was heard about, always changed my oil and filters religiously and have never had a problem with many an engine, (back when I used to do everything myself).

Florida to the Mexican border, many loads. My CB handle was, “The Mexican Pot Dealer”
Not what you think, clay pottery. :’P
Hospital radiation courier, 80-90,000 miles a year, broke a 100K more than a few times. Small amounts. Hot stuff,

Then F-18 Sodium salt generators shielded with depleted uranium like they hang on the Abram’s battle tanks, tuff stuff, Oh and hot barrels, led and silver, don’t ask.

Real good money. A couple of decades.
For the most part little pickup trucks, Rangers and Toyotas. I bought a F-150 to change things up.

Class five tractor trailer because some of the stuff was hot and minimum safe distance often exceeded fifteen feet, twenty, transfer work, Mallinckrodt, five and ten state tags.

Radiation is a beast.
Never ever caught so much as a cold.
The Dakota’s, SAC base , drove every thing.
In and out of Canada.

West Germany, the Regan years. All over driving Mercedes 10 ton trucks, from Denmark to Austria.

Hey I’m an old dude. I did weird stuff.

I’d commit suicide before I’d become a nine to fiver.
Cubicles felt like a tomb. But playing with the Secretaries was fun :’P
Not this boy.
Lone wolf, never had kids.
The radiation might have given me kids with six fingers on each hand I don’t know~~~

 

[Cancunbadlands]

Florida to the Mexican border, many loads. My CB handle was, “The Mexican Pot Dealer”
Not what you think, clay pottery. :’P
Hospital radiation courier, 80-90,000 miles a year, broke a 100K more than a few times. Small amounts. Hot stuff,

Then F-18 Sodium salt generators shielded with depleted uranium like they hang on the Abram’s battle tanks, tuff stuff, Oh and hot barrels, led and silver, don’t ask.

Real good money. A couple of decades.
For the most part little pickup trucks, Rangers and Toyotas. I bought a F-150 to change things up.

Class five tractor trailer because some of the stuff was hot and minimum safe distance often exceeded fifteen feet, twenty, transfer work, Mallinckrodt, five and ten state tags.

Radiation is a beast.
Never ever caught so much as a cold.
The Dakota’s, SAC base , drove every thing.
In and out of Canada.

West Germany, the Regan years. All over driving Mercedes 10 ton trucks, from Denmark to Austria.

Hey I’m an old dude. I did weird stuff.

I’d commit suicide before I’d become a nine to Fiver.
Cubicles felt like a tomb. But playing with the Secretaries was fun :’P
Not this boy.
Lone wolf, never had kids.
The radiation might have given me kids with six fingers on each hand I don’t know~~~

Lone wolf, never had kids as well
I'm the owner of my own time

 

[Cancunbadlands]

I also sniffed the oil cap after a 40 mile canyon drive today. Slight scent of gasoline - not good. Symptom of faulty fuel injector(s). This is a new 25 EB…

It's been reported before, probably by you, I can't recall

 

[Chops]

It's been reported before, probably by you, I can't recall

Yes, by me. It is perfectly normal per feedback by many who know.

 

[Darryl]

I don't doubt a good number of issues were rooted in not doing oil changes on time (by the OLM), cheaping out oil at quick service places that still upcharge a lot for synthetic, and / or not staying on top of replacement oil in engines with consumption. Many cases of owners who did things by the book though and still had major issues.

Not claiming our AI overlords are the source of truth here either, but even when I went to go lookup the cam phaser issues and suggested best practice:

That's cool and all. But I've only been dealing with vehicles with cam phasers since the 2004 5,4 Triton. Those were indeed entirely different engines that needed to be babied. The 3,5 cam phaser rattle was simply a poor design that would fail eventually regardless. Ford came out with a PCM update that changed the variable oil pump pressure strategy that would prevent the cam phaser rattle if performed in time. Again, it was redesigned, and failure is rare now. The 4 cylinder turbo and non turbo engines very seldom have those issues. The AI is also factoring in the old 5,4 3 Valve . To be honest, I see more vct solenoid issues (not the phasers though) in the 5,0 v8 than anything else. And it seems to be somewhat random whether or not the oil is changed early or not. Most of our customers do use 6,000 mile intervals. But for those who follow the smart oil life monitor, I see no appreciable difference . I do notice that the smart oil life monitor does Indeed recommend indicate that an oil change is needed more quickly based on how the customer operates their vehicle. Sometimes it will come on as early as 3,000 miles. For many it indeed comes in at around 6 000. And for some it will delay until near 10 000. So it works. But if a person wants to change their oil more frequently, I tell them to by all means do so because the peace of mind is worth it. But I personally will go by the smart monitor.

 

[BigOil]

My opinion: ANY of them will do a more than adequate job if changed at the recommended intervals. Almost EVERY modern engine that fails due to wear of bearings rings, or any lubrication point had a defect or oil changes were not done close to manufacturer recommendation. That's even true for most turbocharged engines. Another observation: People who only use the best brand of oil are usually the same people who change their oil BEFORE it's recommended. .

AMEN - Retired Chemical Engineer from Chevron(Texaco, CalTex affiliated with Oronite Additives too) Lubricants w/ Fuels for a bit as well...so yeah believe me if u want...

Just use a quality ILSAC oil of OEM spec viscosity at OEM intervals + a branded filter.
This means a reputable brand with quality control and "something to lose" if they don't blend it correctly. Yes, even Walmart SuperTech is fine. Almost all wear is at (cold)startup and that's negligible over the engine life with modern additives.

The biggest issue w/ long change intervals is "nobody" ever checks oil levels to top up any more as most engines are fairly tight. That's really partly why brands like Lexus in every 5000 but change @ 10,000 or some OEM have big sumps plus a low-level indicator (not just a low pressure oil "its low or bad - STOP NOW" idiot light)

Also FWIW - It's not a synthetic from gas base stock that makes the oil wear less or better. It's the additive formulation, nobody use old tech solvent refined base oil in non industrial stuff.

Group 2/2+ oils processed dino oils are quite close to synthetic properties Chevron invented that tech. To wit - DELO HDMO it is not a synthetic base stock, but it's a (very)long life oil because of the formulation...the add pack.

Basically, as long as there is an oil layer to provide something called hydrodynamic lubrication you ain't getting wear... And as long as you keep the combustion crap suspended until a change + a bit of chemistry to sacrafically wear at start --- your'e good.

Globally there are some issues with counterfeit oil that does not meet specifications, just like the plastics on consumer device that "get slimy" from China that have blended in crap recycle pellets(3rd world oil will use poor base stock or used oil or low to no additives) None of these things are an issue of note in North America.

Almost all quick lube lube bulk is OK too-I heard 2nd hand of some places in NYC metro & Miami that might buy our old spec oil or use a single weight...but they were not fully franchised branded places.

 

[tom_tucker]

RE: Somewhat comically, dealers are notorious for using they cheapest fluids and parts they can, not OE.

Yea, I question that. At my dealer Quick Change station. Knowing they buy in bulk, and at each individual changing station, there are hoses hanging from common manifold, piping that techs uses to fill crankcases of vehicles they servicing. I asked service writer if their oils are Motocraft stuff. He said they are, volunteered to check Ford PN on computer. I didn’t, but probably shoulda ask, ”prove it to me”. I know I might be kicked out.

May next time go to parts counter, get MC oil in quarts, then pull up to Quick Change with that oil in back of truck, then ask they use this oil instead . Or if I get Quaker State oil, asked to use this instead.

Ok, so the owners manual says Syn blend for Ecoboost (0W-30) and Full Syn for Hybrid (0W-20). Page 359-361. Ford Mobile service guy put in Syn Blend (incorrectly according to OM) Motorcraft quarts bottles at the last change. I asked him about it since I wasn't happy, wanted full Syn. Glad I have a 7500 interval rather than 10000.

 

[BigOil]

Ok, so the owners manual says Syn blend for Ecoboost (0W-30) and Full Syn for Hybrid (0W-20). Page 359-361. Ford Mobile service guy put in Syn Blend (incorrectly according to OM) Motorcraft quarts bottles at the last change. I asked him about it since I wasn't happy, wanted full Syn. Glad I have a 7500 interval rather than 10000.

Unfortunately, this is sometimes tho less so now a new car *Dealer* thing. Usually, if you specifically ask the Service Advisor to use the factory oil or the branded oil they will. Some places might use the branded bulk OE oil and a less expensive unbranded oil. Though usually they will both meet the specs.

Technically is a case where the "pure synthetic" possibly means something because it might have a slightly higher tolerance for the high temperature regions of a turbo or something. Again, the difference is small, but I'm not the mechanical engineer that designed engine bearings....just the team that did the oil LOL. But generally, the Factory engineers were using synthetic as another way to besides OE Specs ILSAC and API ensure a quality oil that she used especially internationally on the engines. They understood it was code word for "not crap" oil...

Technically, this points out something I didn't mention above in the ELI5 and that is that engine oil also very much functions as a coolant....

Most Dealers it wasn't worth the hassle unless they were running an inexpensive oil change "lane-promo" as a promo to draw in all kinds of business... That's where they might use the white label, Chinese filters, etc.

Most of the major new car brands have a oil program they need to participate in use actively for benefits and must use for warranty work. Generally, it's actually priced competitively or was when I was still working.

 

[Meeka]

Ok, so the owners manual says Syn blend for Ecoboost (0W-30) and Full Syn for Hybrid (0W-20). Page 359-361. Ford Mobile service guy put in Syn Blend (incorrectly according to OM) Motorcraft quarts bottles at the last change. I asked him about it since I wasn't happy, wanted full Syn. Glad I have a 7500 interval rather than 10000.

Hmm.. I have an eco and it says 5w-30, have the 25 ecos changed?

 

[Maverick123]

I'm surprised the EcoBoost specifies a synthetic blend while the hybrid calls for full synthetic; I would've expected the opposite due to the turbo. It's probably because of the hybrids' frequent starts and short running times?

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