Maverick cheaper to drive than Mach E?

[LSchicago]

https://www.torquenews.com/17998/my...ile-my-ford-maverick-runs-10-centsthe-numbers

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[ScottyC]

Scant details on the Maverick....was it EB or Hybrid?

 

[heady]

Most DCFC is outrageously priced, we've found the same. Our Bolt EV is too slow of a DCFC to make long road trips practical in it anyway, but we haven't replaced it with anything newer, as while the newer EVs like the EV6 are pretty good road trippers with most charge stops under 10 minutes, the chargers cost more than gas, so the Maverick hybrid is the easy winner in the trip category. Highway wise above 75 mph, there's not a huge gap between EB or hybrid AWD either so pick your poison. The EV is unbeatable as a commuter within its ~250 mile range.

 

[710-oil-614]

When I got rid of my Tesla I found that SC rates were getting to the point that on a road trip I would be averaging the equivalent of 30-35 eMPG which is WAY off the projected efficiency of the Model3.

obviously part of that is EVs aren’t nearly as efficient at highway speeds and the eMPG rating doesn’t account for crazy high SC prices.

In town charging at home I would average between 90-110 eMPG but that was 2 years ago and my electric prices have gone up significantly. I would likely be down in the 75-90 range for home charging. Still great but getting worse.

 

[heady]

We replaced about 90% of the the grid with solar on our farm which we use for charging the EV, it's the cheapest energy we can get by far, it's not even close any more. The cost per kWh delivered up here has jumped up to ~.12/kWh off-peak - .18/kWh on peak and self-installed, self-generating costs about .025/kWh amortized all in. They are raising the delivery and fixed charge portion of electric bills in many places to try to prevent people jumping off the grid, so more and more of your electric bill becomes a fixed price and the energy use portion a smaller fraction of the total at low use rates to sour people on cheaper self generating. If it gets bad enough we'll have to disconnect the grid altogether and cancel the service, many places in towns/cities have regs that prevent you from utility disconnection though.

 

[710-oil-614]

We replaced about 90% of the the grid with solar on our farm which we use for charging the EV, it's the cheapest energy we can get by far, it's not even close any more. The cost per kWh delivered up here has jumped up to ~.12/kWh off-peak - .18/kWh on peak and self-installed, self-generating costs about .025/kWh amortized all in. They are raising the delivery and fixed charge portion of electric bills in many places to try to prevent people jumping off the grid, so more and more of your electric bill becomes a fixed price and the energy use portion a smaller fraction of the total at low use rates to sour people on cheaper self generating. If it gets bad enough we'll have to disconnect the grid altogether and cancel the service, many places in towns/cities have regs that prevent you from utility disconnection though.

It is not much but I have 800w array over my back deck covering that is not tied into the grid and just runs down to a inverter and 2 kWh lifepo4 battery - it runs my HVAC blower and chest freezer year round and serves as an excellent emergency backup if power goes out.

 

[Escapologist]

I just trickle charge (Level 1) my Escape PHEV overnight at the moment on the cheap rate. It's 4x cheaper than pump prices right now to fill it's approximate gallon+ amount of battery. If I charged during peak day rates it would still be 2x cheaper... at home.

Commercial chargers seem pretty expensive around here. I have not found one worth plugging into, many around here have an added dollar an hour parking at the charger cost also which means even if I am happy paying the barely break even over gas kWh charge, it goes to triple that because even L2 ain't that fast on these. EVs with fast charging only have the former portion to worry much about though. Freebies are often level 1 only and it's not worth the drama when they just seem to be at the places you will be at for 45mins max, so get what, 2 or 3 miles in.

Solar is getting amazingly cheap and efficient. Just a decade ago you were looking at 15 year payoffs and wondering if you'd have equipment failure first. Now it's a handful of years depending how fancy you get. It seems possible to do a total "roll your own" offgrid that would payoff in a year if you've got something to do with the electric...

So I am thinking of the possibilities these days, maybe something like run a through the wall heat pump, heating or cooling, to offload the furnace/AC a bit, and also dump some in a large battery which can be dumped to vehicle... which is currently away most of the sunshine hours.

I am kinda considering getting a cheap used EV to act as a mobile battery, in that I dump all the solar I can into it and use it for other things. So looking to solve the cheapest/easiest to V2L equation. But also for less than a $1000 the wreckers will sell you some huge vehicle packs with 60 day warranty if you can figure out how to use them.

Another thought is that perovskite cells are getting so efficient, 33% claimed, that it might be worth having "flop out" solar on a roof rack etc, that gets you a kilowatt/hr or two an hour while you're parked.

Anyway yeah, current choices with no facilities at home, is that you can drive a small efficient EV which likely has slow charging, so may cost you extra fees and patience, vs a larger "watt hog" which charges fast but gets half the mileage per watt.... so they still cost basically as much to run as a middling gas drinker.

 

[710-oil-614]

I just trickle charge (Level 1) my Escape PHEV overnight at the moment on the cheap rate. It's 4x cheaper than pump prices right now to fill it's approximate gallon+ amount of battery. If I charged during peak day rates it would still be 2x cheaper... at home.

Commercial chargers seem pretty expensive around here. I have not found one worth plugging into, many around here have an added dollar an hour parking at the charger cost also which means even if I am happy paying the barely break even over gas kWh charge, it goes to triple that because even L2 ain't that fast on these. EVs with fast charging only have the former portion to worry much about though. Freebies are often level 1 only and it's not worth the drama when they just seem to be at the places you will be at for 45mins max, so get what, 2 or 3 miles in.

Solar is getting amazingly cheap and efficient. Just a decade ago you were looking at 15 year payoffs and wondering if you'd have equipment failure first. Now it's a handful of years depending how fancy you get. It seems possible to do a total "roll your own" offgrid that would payoff in a year if you've got something to do with the electric...

So I am thinking of the possibilities these days, maybe something like run a through the wall heat pump, heating or cooling, to offload the furnace/AC a bit, and also dump some in a large battery which can be dumped to vehicle... which is currently away most of the sunshine hours.

I am kinda considering getting a cheap used EV to act as a mobile battery, in that I dump all the solar I can into it and use it for other things. So looking to solve the cheapest/easiest to V2L equation. But also for less than a $1000 the wreckers will sell you some huge vehicle packs with 60 day warranty if you can figure out how to use them.

Another thought is that perovskite cells are getting so efficient, 33% claimed, that it might be worth having "flop out" solar on a roof rack etc, that gets you a kilowatt/hr or two an hour while you're parked.

Anyway yeah, current choices with no facilities at home, is that you can drive a small efficient EV which likely has slow charging, so may cost you extra fees and patience, vs a larger "watt hog" which charges fast but gets half the mileage per watt.... so they still cost basically as much to run as a middling gas drinker.

My 2 - 150w suitcase panels (300w total) can generate around 200watts at peak.

They are 66 inches long and 24 inches wide. You would also need an inverter to make it AC.

Not really feasible.

 

[Escapologist]

New tech panels or crappy old Coleman ones which were out of date when they sold them 10 years ago?

 

[710-oil-614]

New tech panels or crappy old Coleman ones which were out of date when they sold them 10 years ago?

They are 21% efficient panels, less than a year old and most definitely not Coleman.

Even assuming that 50% increase in efficiency - to generate a kWh you would have to cover the entire vehicle AND still have an inverter.

Maybe manufacturers will build panels into PHEVs and EVs but attempting to grab a little charge via solar by using portable panels and an inverter - the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

 

[dalola]

It's really not complicated, you just need to understand the cost of your fuel, and the efficiency of your vehicles. We have both a Mav & a Mach E and like most things, "it just depends"...

Just taking average, simple summer numbers, my Mav gets 30mpg, and gas is $3 gal. That's $.10/mile just for fuel, the largest factor in trip cost. My MME (Mustang Mach E) gets 3 mi/kWh, our home electric rate is $.14/kWh. That's $.05/mile. So, roughly half the cost of the Mav. That's the simple summer trip, of less than 300 miles, the range of my MME. So, advantage MME.

Now is where it gets a bit more involved. For longer trips, public charging will be required. The cost of public charging is all over the map....from free, to over $.60/kWh. And the cost is rarely advertised, and DC fast charging is always at a higher rate. But GENERALLY speaking, if you have to public charge, your trip cost with an efficient gas vehicle is likely to be cheaper, sometimes considerably. Then you factor in cold weather, my MME will drop to as low as 1.5mi/kWh, dropping range considerably, and increasing the odds of public charging for longer trips. Then the gas advantage becomes even greater.

So, there is no "one answer". You have to understand some details, and your use case. If you have to rely mostly on public charging, I would never own an EV, simple as that. But if you have decent electric rates, and can charge at home, it starts to make a lot of sense.

 

[Escapologist]

They are 21% efficient panels, less than a year old and most definitely not Coleman.

Even assuming that 50% increase in efficiency - to generate a kWh you would have to cover the entire vehicle AND still have an inverter.

Maybe manufacturers will build panels into PHEVs and EVs but attempting to grab a little charge via solar by using portable panels and an inverter - the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

Well you were right several years ago, not sure you're right any more.

What's the big deal about having an inverter? You make it sound like an endeavor equivalent to taking down the Hoover dam with a teaspoon. Ooooh noooo, big scary inverter. I suppose you're gonna warn me it only works when the sun is out next.

 

[710-oil-614]

Well you were right several years ago, not sure you're right any more.

What's the big deal about having an inverter? You make it sound like an endeavor equivalent to taking down the Hoover dam with a teaspoon. Ooooh noooo, big scary inverter. I suppose you're gonna warn me it only works when the sun is out next.

Yeah again - the juice isn’t worth the squeeze or you’d actually see people doing it. You haven’t hit on a unique idea, it just isn’t feasible.

Enjoy your day boss, I hope it is sunny for you.

 

[colinl]

I just trickle charge (Level 1) my Escape PHEV overnight at the moment on the cheap rate. It's 4x cheaper than pump prices right now to fill it's approximate gallon+ amount of battery. If I charged during peak day rates it would still be 2x cheaper... at home.

Commercial chargers seem pretty expensive around here. I have not found one worth plugging into, many around here have an added dollar an hour parking at the charger cost also which means even if I am happy paying the barely break even over gas kWh charge, it goes to triple that because even L2 ain't that fast on these. EVs with fast charging only have the former portion to worry much about though. Freebies are often level 1 only and it's not worth the drama when they just seem to be at the places you will be at for 45mins max, so get what, 2 or 3 miles in.

Solar is getting amazingly cheap and efficient. Just a decade ago you were looking at 15 year payoffs and wondering if you'd have equipment failure first. Now it's a handful of years depending how fancy you get. It seems possible to do a total "roll your own" offgrid that would payoff in a year if you've got something to do with the electric...

so many of these things are very different for me, in the middle of Kansas. the 3 things I bolded:

1. there is a LOT more variation in my local peak, off-peak and super off-peak energy cost per hour.
summer peak is 4PM to 8PM: $0.2379 per kWh
summer off-peak is 8PM to 12AM, 6AM to 4PM, and 8PM to 12:00AM: $0.06797 per kWh
summer super off-peak is 12AM to 6AM: $0.03399 per kWh

it means my peak is 7x more expensive than super off-peak, and peak is 3.5x more than off-peak. I don't have a PHEV or BEV but if I did, charging super off-peak is a massive difference.

2. I believe you about paid chargers not being worth the cost, and free ones not being worth the time. but that's just because you have a PHEV. you can charge at home, or you can just put gasoline in the vehicle. BEV don't have this choice and if you don't have the range to do everything you need to do on a given day, then you have to use public charging infrastructure. and it has major gaps in rural Kansas - I live in a big city, but I travel rurally for work now and then.

3. solar is not worth it in my area unless your roof faces south and is clear of tree cover. mine does neither. however, there are also a lot of new companies that have sprung up promising the world and undelivering. a friend that I would have considered a smart person signed up for solar that is over $500 a month for 15 years and his electricity bill was never higher than $400 to begin with. (my bill last month was $88, but we use window mount AC units and keep it warm during the day and very warm overnight -- it's essentially off; set to 83F and doesn't run).

 

[commadorebob]

I ran those numbers recently. What I found was that for local driving and charging at home, the EV is 100% more economic than my Maverick.

According to Fuelio, my average cost per mile since I brought Bruce home is $0.140.
The Mach-E would be $0.034 per mile.
The Lightning would be $0.05 per mile.

However, to be frank, for long distance traveling right now, we prefer size and features. We just took a roundtrip weekend to the other end of the state. We could do the entire trip on one tank of gas in the Expedition and BlueCruise drove 90% of the time.

So, my conclusions on EVs still stand. If all you do is local driving and can charge at home, it makes a ton of sense to have one EV. But for road trips, you are still better off with an ICE vehicle, even if it is a hybrid.

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