Hybrid Engine Fires Lawsuit

[KeinoDoggy]

I'm not here to agree or disagree about this. Simply posted for those interested in reading.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...pe-maverick-lincoln-corsair-fire/70559535007/

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[Darnon]

I suppose at least this time around they have the advantage of having claimants who actually had their engines fail unlike the last bunch that got thrown out for lack of standing.

 

[jsus]

I suppose at least this time around they have the advantage of having claimants who actually had their engines fail unlike the last bunch that got thrown out for lack of standing.

Also Ford's NHTSA filings for 23S27 indicating that 22S47 was ineffective, and that they don't yet have a fix to announce, in terms of how the plan to actually address the fire concerns.

Though the article has one owner complaining a dealer wouldn't perform 22S47 while pointing out that it was ineffective at preventing fires, so...

 

[Shay]

It will be interesting to see what the new fix is going to be when the finally announce it.

 

[Skyline]

I am glad that nobody got injured in the six reported engine fires. Ford is in the pickle, regardless if this lawsuit goes ahead or not.

 

[Ozarkbeard]

It will be interesting to see what the new fix is going to be when the finally announce it.

Wouldn't it involve a new ICE, since that's where the problem is, apparently?

 

[Automate]

With the recent post from MTC member continuing to drive his hybrid after it ran out of gas, I thought this was interesting.
"We’ve now learned that some customers continued to drive on the alternative hybrid electric system even after an engine block breach, and so we are notifying customers to park the vehicle if what’s known as a 'block breach' occurs. "

More details here
https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...pe-maverick-lincoln-corsair-fire/70559535007/

 

[PriusHater]

Wouldn't it involve a new ICE, since that's where the problem is, apparently?

Not necessarily. Ford might just offer an extended warranty period for the engines in question. That is what I expect to happen.

 

[Flight Test]

With the recent post from MTC member continuing to drive his hybrid after it ran out of gas, I thought this was interesting.
"We’ve now learned that some customers continued to drive on the alternative hybrid electric system even after an engine block breach, and so we are notifying customers to park the vehicle if what’s known as a 'block breach' occurs. "

More details here
https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...pe-maverick-lincoln-corsair-fire/70559535007/

That is one "Holy Shit" article. It's going to be interesting how this plays out.

 

[Chris_G]

This will get worse before it gets better

 

[Scupking]

I think the problem is Ford has no easy fix besides replacing the engine and they don't want to do that so they are dragging their feet...

 

[fossil]

if I was worried I'd get an oil analysis at first opportunity. poorly machined engine components have to be shedding metal particles.

 

[jsus]

I think the problem is Ford has no easy fix besides replacing the engine and they don't want to do that so they are dragging their feet...

Bear in mind that this is only referring to the engines installed in vehicles sold in the US. ChEP (Chihuahua Engine, MX) also built this engine for Canadian/Mexican Escapes and Mavericks sold into South America. Further, before VEP (Valencia Engine Plant, Spain) came online last year, European Kuga Hybrid/PHEV used engines from ChEP.

As the article notes, what's there for them to do to actually address the issue? Inspect all affected engines and replace the long blocks of those that show signs of excessive wear. They really, really, really don't want to do that. They were really hoping that the cheap bandage-on-a-bullet-wound fix would work, but of course it didn't.

Now, it's highly likely that they're working on yet another patch job that only serves to mitigate the risk that engine failure leads to catastrophic fire, at least before occupants are able to escape. After all, if it's under 1% (perhaps much fewer) that actually fail in this way, it's cheaper for them to try to drain the leaking gas/oil and replace engines that fail, than it is to replace them all.

Therefore, let's not get our hopes up of wide scale engine replacement any time soon.

Why don't they want to just get on with inspecting all these engines? Worst case scenario, if they had to replace them all, is probably around $250m-$500m. That's one quarter to one half of $1 billion.

Math: ~125,322 affected engines * $2,296 retail price == $287,739,312. Obviously retail price is higher than Ford's cost, but then you have to add warranty/shop costs on top of that which could be another $1-2k.

And then realize that's several years worth of ChEP production, so if they were to replace all of them, it would likely take years and they might have to increase production at both ChEP and VEP to build them all. In the process of increasing production, they would need to be extra careful to ensure they didn't make the same mistakes twice. Also, they might have to stop selling new C2 FHEV/PHEV vehicles, which has its own costs. All of these things would mean that building replacement engines would be more expensive than the current rate of production, so let's presume actual cost would be closer to the retail figure above.

Naturally, Ford has 0 interest in doing any that unless it has no other option. After all, they still never properly repaired/redesigned/replaced all of the DPS6 DCT transmissions; they kept using the bad engine from 2011 to 2018 model years.

The lawsuit uses a much more optimistic $60 million figure to inspect all of them and only replace probably a couple percent of them. Thing is, what do they know? What does Ford know about just how many engines are susceptible to this excess wear from poorly machined components which can lead to block breach and resulting engine fire? If it's only a couple percent, sure, $60 million might do it, and that's only a couple months worth of engine production at ChEP. Is it really that few, though, that were machined far enough outside of the design parameters as to pose an excessive risk of block breach and resulting fire?

 

[Skyline]

if I was worried I'd get an oil analysis at first opportunity. poorly machined engine components have to be shedding metal particles.

Every engine sheds metal particles, some more than others; certainly the poorly machined engine sheds more. Most oil filters catch anything over 20-30 micron size metal particles, maybe analyzing the content of the oil filter is a better option in that case?

Naturally, Ford has 0 interest in doing any that unless it has no other option. After all, they still never properly repaired/redesigned/replaced all of the DPS6 DCT transmissions; they kept using the bad engine from 2011 to 2018 model years.

As long there are no fatalities due to the blown engine caused fire, there isn't much that will be done by Ford, unless the lawsuite forces their hands. Your estimate of $0.5B to replace all of the impacted engines is right on money, that would come out from their estimated 2023 profit of $11-12B, after the EV business estimated loss for the same year of $4.5B. So yeah, ford could do that, but not without upsetting Wall Street.

 

[Hardening2753]

Not necessarily. Ford might just offer an extended warranty period for the engines in question. That is what I expect to happen.

imagine getting a new engine at 100k miles lol

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