Ford needs to deliver as many Maverick Hybrids as possible

[BradnChristine]

Are most people really that brand loyal? When I need a vehicle, I buy the best one that fits the money I have to spend, and brand is about the last thing I consider.

Am I unusual?

I have had a C-Max for 6+ years (a 2013 and a 2017) and love everything about them, especially the over-40 MPG and minimal maintenance. I'm not brand-loyal at all, but the optional Toyota Prius is not flat-towable, so I don't expect tow-ability if I waited for a Toyota hybrid truck.

So the Maverick is a C-Max with a bed for me, and there is ZERO alternative out there to fit my needs/wants. Having to wait around 450 days to get it just is what it is these days. The C-Max was likely a CAFE production as well, but without the pickup bed, it was just another box to most, as Ford didn't even bother to talk to RV folks looking for a light towed vehicle and tell them it was flat-towable. Word has gotten around the RV community about the Hybrid Maverick...that genie is out of the bottle. Demand will stay high and folks with small RVs won't want a big heavy lightning at a high cost.

Sponsored

 

[PhilD]

I have had a C-Max for 6+ years (a 2013 and a 2017) and love everything about them, especially the over-40 MPG and minimal maintenance. I'm not brand-loyal at all, but the optional Toyota Prius is not flat-towable, so I don't expect tow-ability if I waited for a Toyota hybrid truck.

So the Maverick is a C-Max with a bed for me, and there is ZERO alternative out there to fit my needs/wants. Having to wait around 450 days to get it just is what it is these days. The C-Max was likely a CAFE production as well, but without the pickup bed, it was just another box to most, as Ford didn't even bother to talk to RV folks looking for a light towed vehicle and tell them it was flat-towable. Word has gotten around the RV community about the Hybrid Maverick...that genie is out of the bottle. Demand will stay high and folks with small RVs won't want a big heavy lightning at a high cost.

Interesting...did not know that angle. Too bad that many of the newcomers that do not need that requirement cannot wait that long. Thank You for sharing!

 

[AznMav]

Right... Oh my word. By the time all those Lightnings get built us middle income people will be buying a small Toyota Hybrid Pickup and may never come back.

Ain't happening. Toyota hybrid base model would be $5k more than the XL and would take at least another 3 years to get to market. Last I checked Rav 4 prime is taking 2 years for delivery! The only one that could do it quickly would be the Santa Cruz but they just don't have the truck pedigree. Ford will be the only game in town for the next couple of years.

 

[mtd14]

Ain't happening. Toyota hybrid base model would be $5k more than the XL and would take at least another 3 years to get to market. Last I checked Rav 4 prime is taking 2 years for delivery! The only one that could do it quickly would be the Santa Cruz but they just don't have the truck pedigree. Ford will be the only game in town for the next couple of years.

It would be $5k more but likely have standard AWD, CP360 equivalent, wireless carplay, and possibly adaptive cruise based on the RAV4 Hybrid. It would probably steal away the Lariat orders moreso than the XLs, which is good for everyone.

That being said, I agree Ford will probably be the only one, outside of the SC, in 2023 and likely 2024. But if Toyota announces a competitor coming late 2024, I wouldn't be surprised to see some people step back and wait. Especially since Hybrid orders expect to wait about a year on average anyways.

 

[PhilD]

Ain't happening. Toyota hybrid base model would be $5k more than the XL and would take at least another 3 years to get to market. Last I checked Rav 4 prime is taking 2 years for delivery! The only one that could do it quickly would be the Santa Cruz but they just don't have the truck pedigree. Ford will be the only game in town for the next couple of years.

Yeah by the time Ford catches up, if they funnel all of their battery resources to the Lightening, the Maverick will probably be $5k higher too. Your example of the Prime is for a PHEV that require bigger batteries to get that initial all electric range. It's definitely a quandary that all of the carmakers are in. I'm still long Ford but not sure about their transparency.

 

[Last Truck Ever]

Are most people really that brand loyal? When I need a vehicle, I buy the best one that fits the money I have to spend, and brand is about the last thing I consider.

Am I unusual?

No, you're not that unusual. The only thing creating a false brand loyalty right this minute is that the hybrid Mav has zero competition. And that Hyundai made a colossal mistake with the Santa Cruz in only actually producing the higher end models, not their base model, making it not really competitive on price. There are more of us needing/able to buy a $30k truck than a $40-100k truck. I've owned more Ford trucks than I can count - point me to a competitively priced hybrid I can actually count on getting and I'm gone.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Yeah I didn't time ALB and SQM very good myself.

Timing is tricky. I placed order for 5k BBBY on 1/6/23 at $1.23 (i liked that $), but it only got down to $1.28. yesterday 1/12/23, it topped out at $5.58. Blessing as it would have been stressful holding through the FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) POP in the coming days. (Sell order at $12.34?). Several years ago I had TSLA at $28.28 but took $39.39 and ran = bad timing on sale! I am currently at 87% cash suffering from FOMO on coming DIP! I did buy TMRC on 12/29/22 at $1.17 on dip and sold half yesterday 1/12/23 at $1.49, dang closed at $1.62 plan on selling rest at $3.33! I do have several downers not talking about.

 

[710-oil-614]

That would be short sighted as the Maverick is an entry level vehicle that would/will build customer loyalty to the broader consumer for maybe a lifetime. If Ford wants to lead in the electrification move, a positive experience is needed. A Hybrid Maverick now can lead to many more Ford purchases down the road. Been there!

You have a very myopic - "I WANT MY HYBRID NOW DAMNIT!!!" - view of Ford's position with the Maverick.

As others have stated - The Maverick and Maverick Hybrid is not a profitable vehicle for Ford. Ford made a strategic decision to change the focus (built on the C2 platform) from a small passenger vehicle to a Maverick (built on the C2 platform) a light truck which has a positive impact on their CAFE ratings.

When Ford introduced the Maverick concept they had to improve fuel economy by 5% annually for light trucks. Fast forward to when the Maverick came out and its now only 1.5%.

Ford knows exactly how many Mavericks it needs to produce (Hybrid AND EB) in order to satisfy their CAFE ratings as to avoid fines and to be able to sell much less efficient F series and Ranger trucks.

2022 mavericks produced: 84,000
2022 Broncos produced: 160,000
2022 F-150s produced: 500,000+

Ford is building the mix of vehicles that they want to build.

Quit parroting the idea this has to do with scalability, supply chain, or underestimated demand.

Ford is building the exact number of Hybrid Mavericks that it wants to build.

If you aren't happy about it - go buy an entry level Hybrid pick up truck from another manufacturer.

 

[710-oil-614]

Right... Oh my word. By the time all those Lightnings get built us middle income people will be buying a small Toyota Hybrid Pickup and may never come back.

That Toyota Hybrid (2024 Tacoma) pick up is going to start around $37,500....

And you better get ready to complain about Toyota screwing customers because you aren't walking into a dealer in 2024 and getting yourself a Tacoma Hybrid pal.

 

[Tmagri4]

I'm not sure what the problem is about producing more hybrids but Ford told us that they would only do 35% of the total years production in hybrids. That left a lot of folks out as the orders came in just about switched from what they said they would be building.

So IF and only IF you were willing to drop the hybrid and go to the Ecoboost you increased the likelyhood for owning a 2023 Maverick. IF you stuck to your original order you have to take your 50/50 chance at getting a truck at all.

It's just ridiculous that Ford took so many more hybrid orders than they could produce in a year. They should have stopped taking hybrid orders after day 2 then only ecoboost orders. I had a day 4 hybrid XLT order with a few options. I called my dealer a month later and dropped all of the options except full size spare and sliding rear window. After reading more on this forum about how oversold the hybrid option was I called my dealer on 1/4/2023 to change my order to ecoboost. I received a scheduled build date (Week of February 6) on 1/12/2023.

I don't think there will be a competing product readily available for another 2 years so my plan is to re-order a hybrid on day 1 of orders for the 24 model year. I'm paying MSRP + $600 dealer fee for my 23 so if the resale prices hold up as they have I will consider the market when/if the 24 hybrid arrives and will sell my ecoboost if I can still recover my MSRP at that time and the 24 price is not too high. At that point. (or maybe even before 24 orders open) I may be just pleased enough with the ecoboost to keep it. I was so focused on a hybrid that I ignored the ecoboost reviews which are very good. The gas mileage isn't bad, the tank holds two more gallons than the hybrid to improve range and the same design utility is there.

 

[stopgowalkon]

You have a very myopic - "I WANT MY HYBRID NOW DAMNIT!!!" - view of Ford's position with the Maverick.

As others have stated - The Maverick and Maverick Hybrid is not a profitable vehicle for Ford. Ford made a strategic decision to change the focus (built on the C2 platform) from a small passenger vehicle to a Maverick (built on the C2 platform) a light truck which has a positive impact on their CAFE ratings.

When Ford introduced the Maverick concept they had to improve fuel economy by 5% annually for light trucks. Fast forward to when the Maverick came out and its now only 1.5%.

Ford knows exactly how many Mavericks it needs to produce (Hybrid AND EB) in order to satisfy their CAFE ratings as to avoid fines and to be able to sell much less efficient F series and Ranger trucks.

2022 mavericks produced: 84,000
2022 Broncos produced: 160,000
2022 F-150s produced: 500,000+

Ford is building the mix of vehicles that they want to build.

Quit parroting the idea this has to do with scalability, supply chain, or underestimated demand.

Ford is building the exact number of Hybrid Mavericks that it wants to build.

If you aren't happy about it - go buy an entry level Hybrid pick up truck from another manufacturer.

But doesn't this conflict with laws of supply and demand? Why wouldn't Ford either a: charge a whole lot more for it, b: figure out better supply or c: cut off orders, if CAFE were the primary motivator? I get it could have been the initial diver, but leaving that much demand and/or revenue on the table in a competitive environment (which will also eventually happen with the Maverick), seems very very risky. Intentionally capping demand whatver the reason is the stuff of supercars not daily drivers.

 

[710-oil-614]

I get it could have been the initial diver, but leaving that much demand and/or revenue on the table in a competitive environment (which will also eventually happen with the Maverick), seems very very risky. Intentionally capping demand whatver the reason is the stuff of supercars not daily drivers.

What revenue? Even with as cheap as Ford is producing the Maverick the margins are so small and in some cases (a bare bones hybrid) practically non-existent. Ford would need to sell 20 Hybrid XLs to match margins of 1 - F-150.

I know it's really hard for individuals who desire the entry level Maverick to understand that they don't plan to build anymore than they do and it is entirely strategic.

The Maverick shares the line with a more expensive Bronco Sport. Hermasillo is at capacity. They aren't going to expand there or any of their other factories to build a low/no margin vehicle that they are producing to only satisfy CAFE.

It's dollars and sense - at a corporate level - not a personal consumer level.

 

[stopgowalkon]

My only point is that typically you price to meet your desired demand (in this case capacity). And for the corporate head who has P/L responsibility for the Maverick, I'm sure every dollar / margin counts. I don't see the logic in intentionally creating more demand when you don't have the capacity to support it unless you either (multiple choice is fun!) a) hope they switch to EBs, b) add capacity eventually c) hope people are comfortable waiting d) don't care if you're frustrated and leave e) maybe they kinda screwed up on assuming where demand would come from.

+ maybe this is also a function of gas prices. I wonder how much people would be fine with the EB when gas prices return to some lower level.

 

[strtrkstr]

I say there is less of a market for the Lightning than the Maverick. Ford is missing the electric socket here playing to the lesser number of folks willing to dole out 110K for a truck. What first time buyer has that kind of capital. More likely to sell more units of the Maverick than the Lightning over a 5 yr timeframe.

Agreed, the Lightning costs more than my current home, which is my first home and not a big one, but still I guess it is about peoples priorities.

 

[jsus]

IThe C-Max was likely a CAFE production as well

C-Max in North America, built at Michigan Assembly alongside Focus, was definitely another compliance car. C-Max is larger than a Focus and was only offered in hybrid and plug-in hybrid (Energi) variants, no ICE option. It was a low volume product that, like Maverick, served to capitalize on an existing platform and excess plant capacity, while boosting their CAFE ratings. Focus Electric could be said to be the same, albeit mostly targeted at California with their stricter requirements. Both Focus Electric and C-Max were rather hard to find (except maybe in California) unless you ordered on. Difference with Maverick being that C-Max already existed in other markets, Maverick is a new variant on the C2 platform.

The Maverick shares the line with a more expensive Bronco Sport. Hermasillo is at capacity. They aren't going to expand there or any of their other factories to build a low/no margin vehicle that they are producing to only satisfy CAFE.

Hermosillo is far from capacity, having only produced 173,917 units sold for 2022. The plant has been said to be capable of building almost double that, 300,000 annually.

Sponsored