F-150 Lightning EV Canceled. EREV Hybrid Lightning Replacement Announced

[JohnCondren1933]

100% agree, I would think about an EREV but absolutely never a BEV for Field Service interstate hauling -- maybe interstate passenger & light load hauling but every BEV truck so far has been a shit-show when attempting to use for truck stuff hauling a load over anything past commutting & god help you if hauling offroad.

Traction battery size/weight/cost/range rapidly becomes a doubling of the 1st 3 to eke a tiny incremental extra of the 4th, as the heavier vehicle uses more battery just to haul its empty weight & wear out tires & brakes as if its hauling a load when empty.

Not to mention longer & longer charging times, there is a safe traction voltage 500VAC is about the voltage that can be made somwhat safe for consumers handling a supercharger. At that voltage unless you increase the size of the heavy copper & cable diameters, those supercharging times are minimum length.
600VAC & higher you are getting significantly higher chances of Arc Flash & the Arc Flash turning into an explosive Arc Blast, its not if, its when at above 600VAC you would need a 6 foot boundary from the connector and a robot handling the connector or youll cook a human to a crisp at 7000 F Arc flash.

So yeah, with trucks hauling a load for more range you either spend 1 hour charging or wear Class 4 Arc Flash armor while connecting & disconnecting the charger at a voltage level high enough for faster charging.

EV driving when commutting or hauling in town through traffic, range extender for longer distance or hauling in cold weather.

Gasoline & Diesel are much more energy-dense than lithium-phosphate & dont drop range in half when hauling a load & temperatures drop.

Then theres the huge weight reduction of EREV vs BEV for 400+ mile ranges , IMO we dont need every F-150 owner driving something weighing 3/4 tons tearing up roads & tires & national park trails to somehow be considered "environmentally responsible".

The EREV approach is the correct one for a truck. I believe it will be more popular than the BEV Lightning.

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[LSchicago]

There isn't some hard rule that the battery has to be where you think it should be. I can only hope Ford at least tries to keep the front trunk. People these days buy trucks all the time for the family vehicle, but they lose a sealed trunk. That is the sacrifice. Ford has the unique opportunity to increase their sales even more by adding a much-wanted feature to a kind of vehicle that people already buy in droves.

You miss the fact that you can't mount an engine in 12" of vertical space. Ram is going to use a 3.6 V6, and you want to use a lawn mower engine? This crap isn't rocket science, it's common sense.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

Guys and gals...

It will run like this....

You will have (a guess) 250 peak electric horsepower.

You will have (a guess) a 50 horsepower gas engine only connected to a generator.

You will be able to pull full power from the battery for brief intervals (accelerating with a trailer).

You will be able to cruise on battery while towing for 100 horsepower (about 40% electric output) but this will drain the battery slowly.

At the same time, you can be putting 50 horse (37 kW) back into the battery. But net battery charge will go down towing on the highway.

Note: 37 kW is more than you need for cruising unladen. So in normal times you will be able to GAIN battery charge while driving. But while towing and when going up grade you will be draining the battery.

Of course any braking will regen.
And anytime at stops you can be recharging.

So most of the time; the little generator kit will be able to keep ahead of battery depletion. But in all likelihood you will slowly drain the battery towing at highway speeds. Maybe once an hour or two take a 5 or 10 minute break with engine running to let it play "catch-up".



Unless they build for performance and not efficiency. In which case it will come with excess of everything. Including price tag.

 

[chilicharger]

You miss the fact that you can't mount an engine in 12" of vertical space. Ram is going to use a 3.6 V6, and you want to use a lawn mower engine? This crap isn't rocket science, it's common sense.

We will see. Boxer engines exist.

 

[Cherokee]

So basically, like a train locomotive, except a gas engine instead of diesel.

Small diesel generator, hmmm not actually powering the truck down the road so,,,
Off road diesel goes for $3 a gallon round these parts ?

 

[Cherokee]

So most of the time; the little generator kit will be able to keep ahead of battery depletion. But in all likelihood you will slowly drain the battery towing at highway speeds. Maybe once an hour or two take a 5 or 10 minute break with engine running to let it play "catch-up".

That better be one ‘Tuff’ battery with massive cooling capabilities. The truck better come with advanced fire suppression systems and driver and passenger ejection seats.

Scotty says, “Captain Kirk, I’ve got to eject the dilithium core.”
Sorry, I had to. :’P

Ford is riding the razors edge in new tech.
I can’t wait to see it.

 

[phoneguyinpgh]

Making hydrogen from water takes more energy than it produces. Always a losing proposition and why it isn't done now. Unless you have a spare nuclear reactor laying around.

That's the missing piece that I just didn't want to start a debate on....

 

[Cherokee]

“Class 4 Arc Flash armor while connecting & disconnecting the charger at a voltage level high enough for faster charging.”

Hahahahahaha !
I hope I’d be smart enough to hook it up THEN turn on the power :’P

 

[huunvubu]

Making hydrogen from water takes more energy than it produces. Always a losing proposition and why it isn't done now. Unless you have a spare nuclear reactor laying around.

Queue Mr Fusion memes:

 

[HeyBales]

Another diff between EREVs and PHEVS...


Another advantage of an EREV vs PHEV is the EREV's all electric drive train means that you've got the total available HP and torque all the time regardless of running in battery-only mode or ICE+generator mode. PHEVs, when running in the all-electric mode have only the electric motor's HP and torque available. That's not horrible if the vehicle has a decent EV design, but you're not going to get max hp and torque unless the ICE and the electric motor are running together (floor it when in EV only mode and the ICE will start).

We currently have 3 electrified vehicles at our house (daughter's and ours); an EV (23 Bolt), a PHEV (25 Escape) and a hybrid (25 Mav). I'm a fan of all 3. The EV is great IF you have a place to plug it in every night with a level-2 charge cable (we do.. thanks GM!) AND you have an alternative ICE vehicle for longer trips (the Mav). Around town, the BOLT gets the miles and it's also a blast to drive the little hatch.

If you can only have one vehicle, then the PHEV is awesome, assuming you have a 120v outlet to plug it into at night, and your daily commute isn't 100's of mile. Even though the Escape, when in the all EV mode, doesn't have the full power of the ICE added to it; for around town the EV-mode only mode is just fine. Instant torque makes a difference and the 30-40 mile all EV range is great for most trips. Even longer 40-60 miles trips means the engine only runs for the last 10-20 miles meaning a single tank of gas could last all month or more!

To me, an EREV with it's smallish battery is a desirable upgrade over the PHEV, though a good PHEV isn't bad The EREV's all-electric range is greater (60-80 miles?), and will have full power when in EV mode, yet still should be able to charge add (50-60 miles) every night at home with just a 120v outlet. The ICE in the EREV can be optimized for single speed RPM matched to be most efficient with the generator so there should be some improvement in ICE efficiency and simplicity too.

I just hope Ford brings out other, smaller options with an EREV drivetrain and not just the larger pickups.

Curious on the 25 Escape PHEV.

For the longer trip - where you comment it would go to ICE for last 10-20 miles.
Does it have a mode where if it knows the trip is too long for the EV-only mode, it'll use the ICE at certain speeds that is great for recharging the HVB?

I've noticed in the Mav, certain higher speeds you just aren't getting much recharge due to the Generator Motor spinning for the desired eCVT "gear" doesn't allow as high a recharge as slower speeds do.
I'm wondering if the engineers have figured out a smart mode to run the ICE at lower speeds that allows max recharge, if the trip distance appears it could benefit?
Or maybe just use the ICE at high speeds to conserve the battery from time to time.
Or maybe it is better to just deplete the battery, recharge whatever you can, end on ICE.

 

[First Sergeant]

That better be one ‘Tuff’ battery with massive cooling capabilities. The truck better come with advanced fire suppression systems and driver and passenger ejection seats.

Scotty says, “Captain Kirk, I’ve got to eject the dilithium core.”
Sorry, I had to. :’P

Ford is riding the razors edge in new tech.
I can’t wait to see it.

Scotty: "Captain, we are running very low on dilithium crystals!"

Kirk: "Scotty! I'm getting real tired of this CRAP". Third trip in a row that you have not packed enough of those damn dilithium crystals!" Now we have to transport down to this god forsaken piece of dog poo planet in the the nastiest part of the galaxy and fight a bunch of bad guy alien assholes so we can steal some more crystals!! "You're fired Scotty"

Sorry to all, I just had to. Besides Scotty needed firing.

 

[HeyBales]

Guys and gals...

It will run like this....

You will have (a guess) 250 peak electric horsepower.

You will have (a guess) a 50 horsepower gas engine only connected to a generator.

You will be able to pull full power from the battery for brief intervals (accelerating with a trailer).

You will be able to cruise on battery while towing for 100 horsepower (about 40% electric output) but this will drain the battery slowly.

At the same time, you can be putting 50 horse (37 kW) back into the battery. But net battery charge will go down towing on the highway.

Note: 37 kW is more than you need for cruising unladen. So in normal times you will be able to GAIN battery charge while driving. But while towing and when going up grade you will be draining the battery.

Of course any braking will regen.
And anytime at stops you can be recharging.

So most of the time; the little generator kit will be able to keep ahead of battery depletion. But in all likelihood you will slowly drain the battery towing at highway speeds. Maybe once an hour or two take a 5 or 10 minute break with engine running to let it play "catch-up".

So that's what I was wondering, the reality of it, for perhaps infrequent uses.
I'd guess if daily you are towing in that manner - that's a no go.

The link I gave early for the Ram has this info.
So they will allow the generator to throw in extra to the motors. I notice they don't say how much kW the motor will do though.

The All-New Ram 1500 REV delivers innovative performance with a liquid-cooled 92-kilowatt-hour battery pack paired with a 130-kilowatt generator. The 3.6L Pentastar® V6 engine generates mechanical power, which is converted to electrical power by the onboard generator for maximum efficiency. The generator can also increase the power to the motor and gearbox when serious power is needed.

TOTAL HORSEPOWER - using a fully charged battery and full gas-powered onboard generator.
647 (= 482 kW)

TOTAL TORQUE (LB-FT) - ditto
610

BEST-IN-CLASS MAXIMUM PAYLOAD CAPACITY (LB) - base config properly equiped.
2,625

BEST-IN-CLASS MAXIMUM TOWING CAPABILITY (LB) - ditto.
14,000

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

Ram 1500 RamCharger also CLAIMS 145 mi on battery power only. Not towing of course.

 

[LSchicago]

We will see. Boxer engines exist.

None that are 12" tall and can fit under a seat. Ford doesn't even have a boxer engine. You'd have better luck asking a Genie for that wish. It will never happen. Smallest engine I could see used is the current 2.5 Hybrid engine to power an F150. And that will be under the hood.

 

[Cherokee]

Scotty: "Captain, we are running very low on dilithium crystals!"

Kirk: "Scotty! I'm getting real tired of this CRAP". Third trip in a row that you have not packed enough of those damn dilithium crystals!" Now we have to transport down to this god forsaken piece of dog poo planet in the the nastiest part of the galaxy and fight a bunch of bad guy alien assholes so we can steal some more crystals!! "You're fired Scotty"

Sorry to all, I just had to. Besides Scotty needed firing.

Do you know where the Klingons hang out ?
Somewhere around Uranus ~~~~~
FaFa~fafa~fa

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