F-150 Lightning EV Canceled. EREV Hybrid Lightning Replacement Announced

[commadorebob]

The All-New Ram 1500 REV delivers innovative performance with a liquid-cooled 92-kilowatt-hour battery pack paired with a 130-kilowatt generator.

"132 kilowatt generator." So, basically the truck can serve as an emergency power backup for every house on my street...

It would have the ability to charge the batteries from empty in an hour while still providing plenty of power to move the vehicle. When I did the math a while back, Lightning only required 400Wh per mile so roughly 30kW would be needed to power the truck in motion. I would imagine they would have the truck set up to not wait until completely empty to charge.

Sponsored

 

[Escapologist]

Curious on the 25 Escape PHEV.

For the longer trip - where you comment it would go to ICE for last 10-20 miles.
Does it have a mode where if it knows the trip is too long for the EV-only mode, it'll use the ICE at certain speeds that is great for recharging the HVB?

I've noticed in the Mav, certain higher speeds you just aren't getting much recharge due to the Generator Motor spinning for the desired eCVT "gear" doesn't allow as high a recharge as slower speeds do.
I'm wondering if the engineers have figured out a smart mode to run the ICE at lower speeds that allows max recharge, if the trip distance appears it could benefit?
Or maybe just use the ICE at high speeds to conserve the battery from time to time.
Or maybe it is better to just deplete the battery, recharge whatever you can, end on ICE.

There are EV now and EV later modes you can select on our 25. On EV Now it will just use the battery straight down unless you mash the pedal to the floor, or maybe put it on max heat or max AC. On EV Later, it will use the battery down to 80%, and then save the rest. Now it still uses the normal hybrid mode in either normal, EV now depleted and EV later, so still getting about 30% electric time at reasonable speeds.

Anyway, what has worked best on long trips for us, is surface streets to highway, let it use some batt, get up to speed on highway, stick it in EV later, then it holds that and then every time we get off highway, drop it into normal, so it uses up main batt at city speeds. Also a good plan to put it back to normal if you hit a major slowdown. So doing that, it keeps the charge for the lower speeds and uses the typical 2/3 IC on the highway. If you are in EV Later below 80% and regenning more than the reglar HEV battery section can hold, you do see the main battery range creep up a little bit when it puts the excess in there. But that only tends to happen when you've got high volume on highway and it keeps faking you out, "are we up to speed yet, NO, slow down a bit again" kind of pump and gliding your regen. Or when you have a long long downhill, got 3 miles in the battery from one once.

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

We will see. Boxer engines exist.

Say goodbye to the frunk.
It is a convenient place to put an engine though.

MT truck of the year. Didn't help much.

As of December 2025, there are over 5,000 brand new Ford F-150 Lightning trucks available for sale nationwide at dealerships, according to automotive inventory sites. Ford has ample inventory due to lower-than-expected demand, which has resulted in significant potential savings for buyers.

 

[JohnCondren1933]

"I hope I’d be smart enough to hook it up THEN turn on the power"

I really didnt want to get into NFPA 70E
Arc Flash requirements here - how to keep this short.

You are describing safe operating procedures for line voltages below 480VAC. Above 600VAC it starts becoming the difference between a Roman Candle fireworks vs a gallon of nitroglycerine.

equivalent of "I run a safe distance after lighting a fireworks, so I should also run a safe distance after throwing a gallon of nitrogycerine". At some level its marginally safer to run fast, but in practical terms whether Hussain Bolt or fat accountant, youre probably gonna be just as dead.

Basically the limitation for increasing amperage is cross section (size) of copper conductors,
for voltage its how good an insulator is, & above 600VAC alot of insulator properties rapidly break down as the higher the voltage is, the farther it can arc through the air between a hot cable and anything else with a path to ground, including the conductive salt in your blood to the ground youre standing on.

There is no "safe" plug as voltage gets into the high 3 digits, it requires safe facilities & physical boundaries to keep trained linemen safe, they use remote low voltage switches to open & close the higher than 600vac disconnect switches, basically wired remote-control boxes using lower voltage switches.

The disconnects (on off switches) at 600vac & above are massive boxes & the "light switch" contacts are heavy cam toggles that release powerful springs that violently pop apart the 2 metal contacts, it sounds like a rifle crack, and the emergency breaker for these things is a compressed air charge that slams the contacts apart at high speed to prevent an arc forming for the millisecond the contacts are separating.

At some point theyre gonna have an arc flash fireworks and the plate steel housing will not protect you, your only defense is keeping your distance when operating & servicing these disconnect buckets.

This is also why high voltage power lines are bare cables & kept spaced as far apart as practical, because no flexible insulator in existence would be an insulator for very long on them.

At & above 600VAC, just a static charge from nature or rubbing your pants can induce a dangerous arc through you, conductive dust in the air can provide an explosive pathway for an arc with a cornona temperature same as the core of the sun 7000 F, for milliseconds but enough to turn you into charred ash.

I think I read somewhere Porsche Taycan electric drivetrain is 800VAC its probably amazing the performance to weight, but that terrifies me, Im not gonna post gory links here of what these voltages can do, but the dangers of 240vac home voltage are somewhat overblown but I assure you the stuff that happens with 600vac & above can seem like a horror movie or scifi

The risk/reward trying to chase power to weight & faster charging times as you approach 600VAC is straight up terrifying there is a reason months of arc flash training are required just to get near enough to learn by watching, & rated clothing & tools are so expensive & have such a short lifespan.

“Class 4 Arc Flash armor while connecting & disconnecting the charger at a voltage level high enough for faster charging.”

Hahahahahaha !
I hope I’d be smart enough to hook it up THEN turn on the power :’P

 

[chilicharger]

Say goodbye to the frunk.
It is a convenient place to put an engine though.

Didn't help much.

I had no idea the front area under the hood would be a convenient place to put an engine! Thanks for all your wisdom.

How do you calculate that the frunk doesn't help that much? It is over 14 cu ft, which is bigger than a bunch of car trunks.

I am not saying it is realistic to expect a generator in the back and keeping the frunk. I am saying Ford has the opportunity to build a segment dominator. Keeping the frunk would be a very unique attribute in a crowded truck market and make it stand out.

 

[JohnCondren1933]

The larger the ICE engine & generator get, the closer you get to a conceptually hybrid drivetrain, which will provide torque for a longer interval, at the cost of lower fuel-efficiency.

I think we get a good clue from Ford's F-150 hybrid-electric the "PowerMax" drivetrain which is quite amazing & if I w were hauling or had a business case vs Maverick hybrid, I would absolutely want to make it work financially.

The F-150 Powermax hybrid-electric uses the form-factor of the ZF 10R-80 transmission housing, but essentially a couple of the plantary-gears are the electric motor-generator, which can power the wheels without engaging the clutch plates, but for hauling or towing a load it uses the conventional planetary-gear clutch-plates.

Per PowerMax drivetrain maker Zufenhausen, engaged clutch-plates are more efficient at transferring power for hauling or towing large loads over long distances vs the non-contact electric motor windings of a typical hybrid drivetrain like Maverick (less energy wasted into heat)

- keep in mind context & bias, that Zuffenhausen is a torque-converter transmission engineering & mfg firm who makes alot of money with standard torque-converter transmissions & likely wanted to preserve as much of their "paid for" engineering in a hybrid design as possible vs extra spending on new tooling - but ZF at this point arguably makes the world's most advanced mass production transmissions in all German & the BIG 3 vehicles.

Watch some videos on the F150 PowerMax hybrid drivetrain, its truly a sleeper, I think ZF engineered it for Ford & then Ford management went all in for Lighning back when OEMs were acting like hybrids were primitive stopgaps & EVs were the wave of the future, and just sort of left Powermax on the back burner no advertising or anything.

It is of course a quite complex drivetrain, hopefully Ford comes back to PowerMax its head & shoulders above the Transit PHEV as far as power capacity and ability to power a whole home

Guys and gals...

It will run like this....

You will have (a guess) 250 peak electric horsepower.

You will have (a guess) a 50 horsepower gas engine only connected to a generator.

You will be able to pull full power from the battery for brief intervals (accelerating with a trailer).

You will be able to cruise on battery while towing for 100 horsepower (about 40% electric output) but this will drain the battery slowly.

At the same time, you can be putting 50 horse (37 kW) back into the battery. But net battery charge will go down towing on the highway.

Note: 37 kW is more than you need for cruising unladen. So in normal times you will be able to GAIN battery charge while driving. But while towing and when going up grade you will be draining the battery.

Of course any braking will regen.
And anytime at stops you can be recharging.

So most of the time; the little generator kit will be able to keep ahead of battery depletion. But in all likelihood you will slowly drain the battery towing at highway speeds. Maybe once an hour or two take a 5 or 10 minute break with engine running to let it play "catch-up".

 

[MightyMaverick]

Ford had a hybrid since 2005, so I think you really have been under a rock

I'm fully aware of the Escape Hybrid from the mid-2000s. I'm saying the popularity of Hybrids has excelled within the last few years. I mentioned Ford because they offer more than one compared to back then. Now, you have the Maverick Hybrid, Escape Hybrid (until it's discontinued) and F-150 Powerboost Hybrid. Not to mention during that 20 year gap, there was the Fusion Energi and C-Max.

 

[chilicharger]

The larger the ICE engine & generator get, the closer you get to a conceptually hybrid drivetrain, which will provide torque for a longer interval, at the cost of lower fuel-efficiency.

I think we get a good clue from Ford's F-150 hybrid-electric the "PowerMax" drivetrain which is quite amazing & if I w were hauling or had a business case vs Maverick hybrid, I would absolutely want to make it work financially.

The F-150 Powermax hybrid-electric uses the form-factor of the ZF 10R-80 transmission housing, but essentially a couple of the plantary-gears are the electric motor-generator, which can power the wheels without engaging the clutch plates, but for hauling or towing a load it uses the conventional planetary-gear clutch-plates.

Per PowerMax drivetrain maker Zufenhausen, engaged clutch-plates are more efficient at transferring power for hauling or towing large loads over long distances vs the non-contact electric motor windings of a typical hybrid drivetrain like Maverick (less energy wasted into heat)

- keep in mind context & bias, that Zuffenhausen is a torque-converter transmission engineering & mfg firm who makes alot of money with standard torque-converter transmissions & likely wanted to preserve as much of their "paid for" engineering in a hybrid design as possible vs extra spending on new tooling - but ZF at this point arguably makes the world's most advanced mass production transmissions in all German & the BIG 3 vehicles.

Watch some videos on the F150 PowerMax hybrid drivetrain, its truly a sleeper, I think ZF engineered it for Ford & then Ford management went all in for Lighning back when OEMs were acting like hybrids were primitive stopgaps & EVs were the wave of the future, and just sort of left Powermax on the back burner no advertising or anything.

It is of course a quite complex drivetrain, hopefully Ford comes back to PowerMax its head & shoulders above the Transit PHEV as far as power capacity and ability to power a whole home

Geez, I liked the sound of the Powerboost, but Ford only puts them in a Lariat and up trim. I configured one for maximum towing and got to over 70k. That is 10k more than I specced a current Lightning to. I don't know if this EREV Lightning will be more or less than the current one. I certainly hope it doesn't follow the Powerboost pricing!

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

“Class 4 Arc Flash armor while connecting & disconnecting the charger at a voltage level high enough for faster charging.”

Hahahahahaha !
I hope I’d be smart enough to hook it up THEN turn on the power :’P

The EV chargers have "interlocks".

The low voltage wires need to "handshake" / data communicate before the high voltage - high current kicks on.

Also, you probably don't know unless you own one, at anything above 240 volts the plugs and sockets literally lock together with a mechanical pawl, when energized. No human muscle can pry the plug and socket while energized, and the cars won't move with a cord of any type attached. You can't take it out of park with a cord attached. But you can sit and run the heat, air-conditioning, or other accessories while charging.

 

[gzebrick]

Curious on the 25 Escape PHEV.

For the longer trip - where you comment it would go to ICE for last 10-20 miles.
Does it have a mode where if it knows the trip is too long for the EV-only mode, it'll use the ICE at certain speeds that is great for recharging the HVB?

I've noticed in the Mav, certain higher speeds you just aren't getting much recharge due to the Generator Motor spinning for the desired eCVT "gear" doesn't allow as high a recharge as slower speeds do.
I'm wondering if the engineers have figured out a smart mode to run the ICE at lower speeds that allows max recharge, if the trip distance appears it could benefit?
Or maybe just use the ICE at high speeds to conserve the battery from time to time.
Or maybe it is better to just deplete the battery, recharge whatever you can, end on ICE.

It's interesting how the Escape does the EV mode compared to the Maverick though they share nearly identical drive trains (much larger battery in the Escape).

The PHEV Escape has 3 EV modes: and it remembers what mode you left it in and returns to it.

EV NOW runs the battery only until it's at 0% then the ICE takes over. It's seamless. At that point, it's nearly identical to the Hybrid Maverick with the ICE turning off as you decelerate, regen braking, etc. and getting that captured energy back when you take off even though the EV battery is shows 0%. ICE Hybrid MPGs in town and city also similar to the Hybrid MAV once the battery is depleted.

EV AUTO will kick on the ICE/Hybrid whenever the computer thinks it's better seamlessly switching between all EV and ICE/Hybrid... usually at highway speeds (60+) and/or to get some free heat in the cabin.

EV LATER will run the ICE (hybrid) only. Lets you save the EV only mode for whenever you engage it (switch to EV NOW or EV AUTO). EV Later doesn't appear to add much to the battery, since like the Maverick the Hybrid mode adds/takes in near equal measure.

There's an L mode like the hybrid mav, but all that does is kick in the ICE for extra power (and I assume compression braking).. It doesn't have an easy way to get max regen so you just have to use the EV coach.

Driving the PHEV (which will be our daughter's only car when she heads out this summer) makes me wish the MAV had a similar setup. I've done 50-60 miles trips starting in all EV mode and winding up in ICE (Hybrid) mode using minimal gasoline. The EV displays are also much better in the Escape. ... and driving the Escape PHEV makes me wish it was a full-on EREV with 60-80 miles all EV range.

I see there are a few screaming deals around the country. We paid $25,500 for a car with a MSRP just under $40K and a Dealer sticker of $42,000! Couldn't pass it up!

 

[JohnCondren1933]

As with everything automotive, volume manufacturing brings price down.
Powerboost is built at low volume hence the $10k more than Lightning pricing.

Sadly I dont think the EREV F-150 will use Powerboost drivetrain, alot more mechanical parts, 3.5L Ecoboost V6 + hybrid 10r80 its a lot more expensive to manufacture than a Lightning with 3/4 the battery & not much more than half of a Maverick 2.5L hybrid to charge the battery
Nah Im sure Ford will put a higher output engine & generator I think its gonna be a constant rpm engine optimized not for instant throttle response.

Price-wise, I think Maverick sales #s and falling Ranger sales should be a pretty clear indication that automakers priced vehicles righ out of what 90% of the market can get a loan for.

Geez, I liked the sound of the Powerboost, but Ford only puts them in a Lariat and up trim. I configured one for maximum towing and got to over 70k. That is 10k more than I specced a current Lightning to. I don't know if this EREV Lightning will be more or less than the current one. I certainly hope it doesn't follow the Powerboost pricing!

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

The third reply on the linked thread says:

"EREV means (more) maintenance, right?"

Yup. 100% correct.

Regular oil changes. Spark plug changes. Emissions system repairs. Everything that comes with a gas vehicle.

 

[Bob The Builder]

"I hope I’d be smart enough to hook it up THEN turn on the power"

I really didnt want to get into NFPA 70E
Arc Flash requirements here - how to keep this short.

You are describing safe operating procedures for line voltages below 480VAC. Above 600VAC it starts becoming the difference between a Roman Candle fireworks vs a gallon of nitroglycerine.

equivalent of "I run a safe distance after lighting a fireworks, so I should also run a safe distance after throwing a gallon of nitrogycerine". At some level its marginally safer to run fast, but in practical terms whether Hussain Bolt or fat accountant, youre probably gonna be just as dead.

Basically the limitation for increasing amperage is cross section (size) of copper conductors,
for voltage its how good an insulator is, & above 600VAC alot of insulator properties rapidly break down as the higher the voltage is, the farther it can arc through the air between a hot cable and anything else with a path to ground, including the conductive salt in your blood to the ground youre standing on.

There is no "safe" plug as voltage gets into the high 3 digits, it requires safe facilities & physical boundaries to keep trained linemen safe, they use remote low voltage switches to open & close the higher than 600vac disconnect switches, basically wired remote-control boxes using lower voltage switches.

The disconnects (on off switches) at 600vac & above are massive boxes & the "light switch" contacts are heavy cam toggles that release powerful springs that violently pop apart the 2 metal contacts, it sounds like a rifle crack, and the emergency breaker for these things is a compressed air charge that slams the contacts apart at high speed to prevent an arc forming for the millisecond the contacts are separating.

At some point theyre gonna have an arc flash fireworks and the plate steel housing will not protect you, your only defense is keeping your distance when operating & servicing these disconnect buckets.

This is also why high voltage power lines are bare cables & kept spaced as far apart as practical, because no flexible insulator in existence would be an insulator for very long on them.

At & above 600VAC, just a static charge from nature or rubbing your pants can induce a dangerous arc through you, conductive dust in the air can provide an explosive pathway for an arc with a cornona temperature same as the core of the sun 7000 F, for milliseconds but enough to turn you into charred ash.

I think I read somewhere Porsche Taycan electric drivetrain is 800VAC its probably amazing the performance to weight, but that terrifies me, Im not gonna post gory links here of what these voltages can do, but the dangers of 240vac home voltage are somewhat overblown but I assure you the stuff that happens with 600vac & above can seem like a horror movie or scifi

The risk/reward trying to chase power to weight & faster charging times as you approach 600VAC is straight up terrifying there is a reason months of arc flash training are required just to get near enough to learn by watching, & rated clothing & tools are so expensive & have such a short lifespan.

IBEW Local 300 Master Electrician here since 1978. I have not seen it all, nobody has, but I have seen enough to know that what you are saying rings very very true. My ceiling is 480V 3 Phase. Once saw an Automatic Bus Transfer Switch (3 sources of power) in the Navy get blown off the bulkhead and person working on it blinded and flown off the carrier barely alive. Thank God we have much better safety equipment and ARC Fault training today than we had in 1969. I wore my gold wedding band for the last time the day we returned from our honeymoon. My wife said no way you are wearing jewelry and do what you do for a living. Smart woman.

These voltages and arc fault potentials are really one of the reasons I have been so apprehensive about EV's.

 

[TwoTone]

The larger the ICE engine & generator get, the closer you get to a conceptually hybrid drivetrain, which will provide torque for a longer interval, at the cost of lower fuel-efficiency.

I think we get a good clue from Ford's F-150 hybrid-electric the "PowerMax" drivetrain which is quite amazing & if I w were hauling or had a business case vs Maverick hybrid, I would absolutely want to make it work financially.

The F-150 Powermax hybrid-electric uses the form-factor of the ZF 10R-80 transmission housing, but essentially a couple of the plantary-gears are the electric motor-generator, which can power the wheels without engaging the clutch plates, but for hauling or towing a load it uses the conventional planetary-gear clutch-plates.

Per PowerMax drivetrain maker Zufenhausen, engaged clutch-plates are more efficient at transferring power for hauling or towing large loads over long distances vs the non-contact electric motor windings of a typical hybrid drivetrain like Maverick (less energy wasted into heat)

- keep in mind context & bias, that Zuffenhausen is a torque-converter transmission engineering & mfg firm who makes alot of money with standard torque-converter transmissions & likely wanted to preserve as much of their "paid for" engineering in a hybrid design as possible vs extra spending on new tooling - but ZF at this point arguably makes the world's most advanced mass production transmissions in all German & the BIG 3 vehicles.

Watch some videos on the F150 PowerMax hybrid drivetrain, its truly a sleeper, I think ZF engineered it for Ford & then Ford management went all in for Lighning back when OEMs were acting like hybrids were primitive stopgaps & EVs were the wave of the future, and just sort of left Powermax on the back burner no advertising or anything.

It is of course a quite complex drivetrain, hopefully Ford comes back to PowerMax its head & shoulders above the Transit PHEV as far as power capacity and ability to power a whole home

I'm not following how your equating a generator with electric motors to a hybrid power train.

 

[Cherokee]

The third reply on the linked thread says:

"EREV means (more) maintenance, right?"

Yup. 100% correct.

Regular oil changes. Spark plug changes. Emissions system repairs. Everything that comes with a gas vehicle.

But a small 50 Horse V-Twin Diesel, runs at 50% Load for 12 hours of charging on 3.5 gallons of,
Off Road diesel @ 3.00 per gallon ?

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