F-150 Lightning EV Canceled. EREV Hybrid Lightning Replacement Announced

[atomguy245]

Hopefully they mount the generator under the rear seats and keep the front trunk. A full-size, 4-door electric truck with a big bed, a range extender in the back somewhere and a front trunk is truly the end game of versatility and flexibility.

An open bed for hauling, but then a sealed front trunk for more sensitive things would be the best.

You know Ford won't do this. Too cheap to engineer it like that. And Ford just made the frunk an extra cost option on the Mach E, saying most people don't use it.

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[gzebrick]

Another diff between EREVs and PHEVS...

I think this is a much better option than the current HEV & PHEV.

Another advantage of an EREV vs PHEV is the EREV's all electric drive train means that you've got the total available HP and torque all the time regardless of running in battery-only mode or ICE+generator mode. PHEVs, when running in the all-electric mode have only the electric motor's HP and torque available. That's not horrible if the vehicle has a decent EV design, but you're not going to get max hp and torque unless the ICE and the electric motor are running together (floor it when in EV only mode and the ICE will start).

We currently have 3 electrified vehicles at our house (daughter's and ours); an EV (23 Bolt), a PHEV (25 Escape) and a hybrid (25 Mav). I'm a fan of all 3. The EV is great IF you have a place to plug it in every night with a level-2 charge cable (we do.. thanks GM!) AND you have an alternative ICE vehicle for longer trips (the Mav). Around town, the BOLT gets the miles and it's also a blast to drive the little hatch.

If you can only have one vehicle, then the PHEV is awesome, assuming you have a 120v outlet to plug it into at night, and your daily commute isn't 100's of mile. Even though the Escape, when in the all EV mode, doesn't have the full power of the ICE added to it; for around town the EV-mode only mode is just fine. Instant torque makes a difference and the 30-40 mile all EV range is great for most trips. Even longer 40-60 miles trips means the engine only runs for the last 10-20 miles meaning a single tank of gas could last all month or more!

To me, an EREV with it's smallish battery is a desirable upgrade over the PHEV, though a good PHEV isn't bad The EREV's all-electric range is greater (60-80 miles?), and will have full power when in EV mode, yet still should be able to charge add (50-60 miles) every night at home with just a 120v outlet. The ICE in the EREV can be optimized for single speed RPM matched to be most efficient with the generator so there should be some improvement in ICE efficiency and simplicity too.

I just hope Ford brings out other, smaller options with an EREV drivetrain and not just the larger pickups.

 

[First Sergeant]

I will take the opposite. A sealed trunk up front along with the open truck bed for hauling is the best compromise possible. You could simply remove the rear seats to service the generator. I don't care about the supposed "noise" in the cab, since it obviously won't be running all the time. Also, a truck frame allows plenty of space out back, under the bed, for a big battery. That would also be much better for weight distribution. Trucks are normally very light in the back and that isn't ideal.

This EREV powertrain would also be absolutely perfect for towing and trailer camping. If you don't have an RV hookup handy, the truck can power your trailer. That is what really excites me.

I agree, but would only work well for smaller trailers and not for extended periods of camping. A small gas generator would perform better for those longer times, but a quick overnight at a truck stop or rest area, perfect. The mid and larger camp trailers, 5th wheels, many have built in gas generators. Longer stays and boondocking, running two or three air conditioning or heat units need a lot of power for extended periods.

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

Another diff between EREVs and PHEVS...


Another advantage of an EREV vs PHEV is the EREV's all electric drive train means that you've got the total available HP and torque all the time regardless of running in battery-only mode or ICE+generator mode. PHEVs, when running in the all-electric mode have only the electric motor's HP and torque available. That's not horrible if the vehicle has a decent EV design, but you're not going to get max hp and torque unless the ICE and the electric motor are running together (floor it when in EV only mode and the ICE will start).

We currently have 3 electrified vehicles at our house (daughter's and ours); an EV (23 Bolt), a PHEV (25 Escape) and a hybrid (25 Mav). I'm a fan of all 3. The EV is great IF you have a place to plug it in every night with a level-2 charge cable (we do.. thanks GM!) AND you have an alternative ICE vehicle for longer trips (the Mav). Around town, the BOLT gets the miles and it's also a blast to drive the little hatch.

If you can only have one vehicle, then the PHEV is awesome, assuming you have a 120v outlet to plug it into at night, and your daily commute isn't 100's of mile. Even though the Escape, when in the all EV mode, doesn't have the full power of the ICE added to it; for around town the EV-mode only mode is just fine. Instant torque makes a difference and the 30-40 mile all EV range is great for most trips. Even longer 40-60 miles trips means the engine only runs for the last 10-20 miles meaning a single tank of gas could last all month or more!

To me, an EREV with it's smallish battery is a desirable upgrade over the PHEV, though a good PHEV isn't bad The EREV's all-electric range is greater (60-80 miles?), and will have full power when in EV mode, yet still should be able to charge add (50-60 miles) every night at home with just a 120v outlet. The ICE in the EREV can be optimized for single speed RPM matched to be most efficient with the generator so there should be some improvement in ICE efficiency and simplicity too.

I just hope Ford brings out other, smaller options with an EREV drivetrain and not just the larger pickups.

When owned my Chevy Volt.
The longest I went without buying gas was almost 5 months. The engine did start in maintenance mode. It surprised me.
It is nice not having to buying gas. It is also nice being able to use the same vehicle for a long distance trip without having to plug it in for possibly an hour or more. Only take 7 to 10 minutes to fill a gas tank use the restroom and you're on your way.

 

[Scott Asheville]

He's the ADMIN. He can post anywhere he feels like it.

And we are all guests here, consuming free content. Some ultra fanboys forget that. Not only can admins post, but they can freeze threads, issue warnings and temporary bans (and they most definitely do). This site is here to generate advertising profit. Everything else is secondary.

To say it differently, we are guests in somebody else's house.

 

[Scott Asheville]

The old phrase "choose the right tool for the job" applies to the endless arguments over BEV vs ICE vs Hybrid vs EREV vs fuel cell vs atomic powered jet cars.

Sometimes ICE is right. Sometimes BEV is right. 50+ years of diesel electric locomotives shows that sometimes EV powered by ICE is right.

But the right answer isn't always the best engineering answer. Or even the right tool for the job. The right answer is the answer that sells.

 

[chilicharger]

I agree, but would only work well for smaller trailers and not for extended periods of camping. A small gas generator would perform better for those longer times, but a quick overnight at a truck stop or rest area, perfect. The mid and larger camp trailers, 5th wheels, many have built in gas generators. Longer stays and boondocking, running two or three air conditioning or heat units need a lot of power for extended periods.

All you have to do is tell the truck to turn on the ICE when the battery is going low, then you have as much power as your gas tank allows. I can only speculate with how long my small trailers would be powered by a future EREV Lightning, but I want to find out. I will never have a trailer with more than one AC. I don't like driving huge trailers at all. Also, when it comes to heat, my trailers use propane for that. I am mostly worried about running AC during the hot months, since I am in the SW.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

I think this is a much better option than the current HEV & PHEV. These are considered parallel Hybrids where the electric motors work in parallel with the ICE and can function also as generators. But they must have some form of mechanical transmission to send power to the rest of the drivetrain. You get a decent amount of loss in that configuration. EREVs and diesel locomotive are SERIES hybrids. The wheels are always driven by electric motors and the power comes from an ICE connected to a generator and/or battery pack. This has the advantage of removing the mechanical losses in the drivetrain as well as allowing the ICE and generator to be designed & tuned to each other to run in their efficiency bands and get the most from both and still get regenerative braking from the traction motors. I can see a future evolution where the ICE will be a small turbine engine that can run on multiple different fuels possibly even off CNG or compressed hydrogen that could be manufactured locally at the fueling station by cracking water, venting the O2 and storing the H2 for fuel.

Making hydrogen from water takes more energy than it produces. Always a losing proposition and why it isn't done now. Unless you have a spare nuclear reactor laying around.

 

[cavemold]

That looks better than before

 

[Scupking]

Do you still have to plug this thing in to get the full benefit? If so not interested...

 

[chilicharger]

Do you still have to plug this thing in to get the full benefit? If so not interested...

No, the gas generator supplies any battery power needed until it runs out. I imagine there will be a plug to let people charge it up, if they want. There really is no reason to not add a plug. Then I would just plug it in a normal outlet overnight and get a few miles of extra range for the commute the next day. My daily commute is just over 30 miles, so I think I could do that on just the battery only range a few days a week.

This thing has me really excited. When the Lightning was first announced, I thought it would have been much better with a generator. The electric motor propulsion is absolutely perfect for a truck that needs to tow, with its endless torque. Ford seems to bemoan the expense of this battery-only Lightning, so perhaps this EREV version will come in below what the current-gen ones are. I just configured an XLT with a few options and it came in just under 60k. I could swing that, but it would be a painful monthly payment. The most I have ever paid for a vehicle before was 48K and I didn't like that payment at all.

 

[LSchicago]

I will take the opposite. A sealed trunk up front along with the open truck bed for hauling is the best compromise possible. You could simply remove the rear seats to service the generator. I don't care about the supposed "noise" in the cab, since it obviously won't be running all the time. Also, a truck frame allows plenty of space out back, under the bed, for a big battery. That would also be much better for weight distribution. Trucks are normally very light in the back and that isn't ideal.

This EREV powertrain would also be absolutely perfect for towing and trailer camping. If you don't have an RV hookup handy, the truck can power your trailer. That is what really excites me.

I don't think you can mount any engine between a battery and a seat.

 

[chilicharger]

I don't think you can mount any engine between a battery and a seat.

There isn't some hard rule that the battery has to be where you think it should be. I can only hope Ford at least tries to keep the front trunk. People these days buy trucks all the time for the family vehicle, but they lose a sealed trunk. That is the sacrifice. Ford has the unique opportunity to increase their sales even more by adding a much-wanted feature to a kind of vehicle that people already buy in droves.

 

[commadorebob]

The right answer is the answer that sells.

This, 100%. Ford is not a charity and has a fiduciary obligation to make a profit for its owners (aka shareholders). It doesn't matter if a product makes you feel good; it has to sell.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

Do you still have to plug this thing in to get the full benefit? If so not interested...

Yes. Of course.

Otherwise you get partial benefit of having a souped up hybrid.

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