Are Hybrids named wrong?

[aitch-2-oh]

Quote: My issue with Hybrids is that my state and local government tax the living $$$$ out of them. End Quote


Speaking of taxes and electric whatever they’re called…

…get ready for the next wave, ‘cuz States use fuel tax as a slush fund for a variety of budgeted programs. The current tax in Illinois is @ $.70/gallon.

Anyone think they (whoever they is…) are going to sit back and do nothing to replace these shortfalls as EV acceptance increases and fuel purchases decline?

Don’t think so. How this is implemented, per state and municipalities, is a question worth following, very closely.

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[LAClippers420]

I’ll have a bowl of whatever you are smoking.

 

[Vols44]

I'll call it a full hybrid electric vehicle (FHEV). It's Ford's classification and distinguishes it from a BEV (battery electric vehicle).

 

[Timothyd]

People also bought more quarter pounders over A&W’s third pounder burgers because they thought a quarter was bigger than a third.

I know what hybrids can do these days and its honestly the best option for my life. Affordable small truck that gets great mileage is absolutely perfect. Throw in that I can get the one I want for under $30k, it’s a no-brainer.

And, THAT, is the bottom line. It checks most of the boxes, is affordable and looks pretty good.

 

[rmay635703]

Quote: My issue with Hybrids is that my state and local government tax the living $$$$ out of them. End Quote


Speaking of taxes and electric whatever they’re called…

…get ready for the next wave, ‘cuz States use fuel tax as a slush fund for a variety of budgeted programs. The current tax in Illinois is @ $.70/gallon.

Anyone think they (whoever they is…) are going to sit back and do nothing to replace these shortfalls as EV acceptance increases and fuel purchases decline?

Don’t think so. How this is implemented, per state and municipalities, is a question worth following, very closely.

3/5 of states already tax the crap out of plug ins and hybrids (a few even tax you for getting good fuel economy) even though only 11 has a statistically significant number of them on the road
(See chart most states have statically ZERO plug ins and will notfor the foreseeable future)

Hence why registration should only cover the notary and physical material costs on a plate.

Roads have been mostly funded out of general funds for almost 30 years, gas tax hasn’t funded roads for over 20.

The fair share movement is mostly a corporate movement to drive commercial costs onto everyday people which is regressive and drives folks like my uncle who simply don’t pay license and registration for over 20 years because it’s too exp

The only fair way to fund roads is as it is done today as a common good out of general funds. There are thousands of taxes, including municipal substation taxes that are already charged onto every kwhr and paid by your power plant operator.
High registration fees and “tracking” systems are just a very expensive red herring that will be an immense failure driving massive administrative costs and barring the poor from vehicle ownership.

If we are mad about congestion make toll roads that charge EVs and everyone equally
If we are mad about road damage commercial and weight/axle fees (already exist)
If we are mad about pollution and energy use gas taxes seem to work as do the existing electrical demand taxes.

The argument we need new taxes fall flat.

 

[APD]

Why a hybrid that gets 20mpg is paying $500 extra in the first year for “gas taxes”is beyond rediculous.

What hybrid is only getting 20mpg and why would anyone buy one?

 

[clavicus]

What hybrid is only getting 20mpg and why would anyone buy one?

F150 has a hybrid version, actually a couple other makes have one now (ram 1500, silverado). Maybe Tundra has a variant now? Gladiator 4xe is coming.

 

[DryHeat]

Title for a hybrid due to local taxes is $562.50 which is a lot of gas tax compared to the double digit fee paid for my old car.

Why a hybrid that gets 20mpg is paying $500 extra in the first year for “gas taxes” is beyond ridiculous.

I've been looking at this issue because they are also making changes to vehicle taxes in Arizona. I want to compare what's happening here to other states..

In Arizona, from what I can tell so far, the registration (VLT - vehicle license tax) cost changes have applied to BEVs, not HEVs. BEVs used to get a huge break on VLT, and under the new scheme they will pay the same as ICE vehicles.

But I'm confused by your mention of "$500 extra." All I can find in Wisconsin regarding first year costs is $164.50 for original title and $100 base fee for truck registration. Those are standard for all trucks, but you add a $75 "vehicle fuel surcharge" for hybrids.

In other words, I can only find $75 extra cost for hybrids. I must be missing something if you are paying $500 extra in the first year because you have a hybrid. Can you tell me what it is? It should show up as a line item on your registration.

 

[APD]

F150 has a hybrid version

yeah apparently toyota has a tundra hybrid that starts at $53k and gets 22mpg as well. No thanks. I get 19-20 on the highway in my 1997 dodge ram 2500 diesel.

 

[rmay635703]

Depends on county and even city
The title on hybrid/EV is 2.5x your registration so it’s a one time deal but if your local registration due to wheel taxes and other BS is $225 your title fee can be very high compared to the 2 digit fee on an old gas car

One time deal but an average gas econobox usually pays under $50 annually on state gas tax making a hybrid pay more is egregious even if it were just the illegal registration hike.

These states charge random elevated fees on BEVS or PHEVS or Hybrids or even on cars that get better than 30 mpg and sometimes all of the above, in some particularly terrible examples the fee exceeds the fuel savings unless you drive a LOT of miles.

 

[DryHeat]

Depends on county and even city
The title on hybrid/EV is 2.5x your registration so it’s a one time deal but if your local registration due to wheel taxes and other BS is $225 your title fee can be very high compared to the 2 digit fee on an old gas car

From what I can find:

• The title on a hybrid is the same price as on a non-hybrid... $164.50.
• Registration cost for a truck is $100... plus $75 if it's a hybrid.
• Local wheel taxes range from $10 to $40 and don't appear to be different for hybrids.

So... is it really true that you had to pay $500 more for "gas taxes" because you have a hybrid?

Or are you just trolling hybrid owners?

 

[APD]

Depends on county and even city
The title on hybrid/EV is 2.5x your registration so it’s a one time deal but if your local registration due to wheel taxes and other BS is $225 your title fee can be very high compared to the 2 digit fee on an old gas car

One time deal but an average gas econobox usually pays under $50 annually on state gas tax making a hybrid pay more is egregious even if it were just the illegal registration hike.

These states charge random elevated fees on BEVS or PHEVS or Hybrids or even on cars that get better than 30 mpg and sometimes all of the above, in some particularly terrible examples the fee exceeds the fuel savings unless you drive a LOT of miles.

And here is the same map showing which states offer incentives for buying EV's, PHEV's, and hybrids. Many of which exceed any increased title fees, some actually reduce registration fees, etc.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/energy/state-electric-vehicle-incentives-state-chart.aspx

 

[Delbert]

Here is how Virginia is doing it. It is a highway use fee (HUF) tacked onto your annual registration. Tesla owners are complaining. We have two hybrids that are paying the tax. It is small enough that I did not notice it when renewing my plates this year.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I wonder about changing the hybrid configuration so the ICE is strictly a generator. You‘d need a bigger battery and a bigger electric motor, but a smaller engine and fuel tank. The savings of downsizing the gas engine and tank would not seem to make up for the cost of a larger motor and battery. I wonder how small the generator could be. It’s a very interesting prospect.

Talking about interesting project... I wonder if one could just add in a second high voltage battery which itself has plug in capability or without plug in capability and just share load and effectively increase amps available when transfer rate is restricted due to internal battery temperature that's outside optimal operating temps. I have a first edition lariat FWD but under the bed close to where I would expect a drive motor to be placed there is a high voltage harness with ends plugged together which returns toward front of truck. I do not know if this harness is configured this way on all hybrids or I got one that was originally meant to be an AWD hybrid? The return part of the harness implies that Regen braking could be returned to appropriate place. Of additional interest concerning possibly reducing ice size I have read where if coolant is lost the 2.5 engine is put into 2 cylinder operating limp mode. This implies that in addition to rpm varying the amount of power it could also be further reduced if needed by utilizing 2 cylinder operation which could also reduce fuel consumption. I would not be surprised if this is already being done possibly with which 2 cylinders powered being alternated after all this is a computerized setup. This would optimize fuel use during battery recharge at lower speeds and possibly all 4 cylinders being used when extra power and over 60+/- mph. Evidenced by two distinct rates of acceleration under cruise control? @fordvideoguy

 

[MakinDoForNow]

3/5 of states already tax the crap out of plug ins and hybrids (a few even tax you for getting good fuel economy) even though only 11 has a statistically significant number of them on the road
(See chart most states have statically ZERO plug ins and will notfor the foreseeable future)

Hence why registration should only cover the notary and physical material costs on a plate.

Roads have been mostly funded out of general funds for almost 30 years, gas tax hasn’t funded roads for over 20.

The fair share movement is mostly a corporate movement to drive commercial costs onto everyday people which is regressive and drives folks like my uncle who simply don’t pay license and registration for over 20 years because it’s too exp

The only fair way to fund roads is as it is done today as a common good out of general funds. There are thousands of taxes, including municipal substation taxes that are already charged onto every kwhr and paid by your power plant operator.
High registration fees and “tracking” systems are just a very expensive red herring that will be an immense failure driving massive administrative costs and barring the poor from vehicle ownership.

If we are mad about congestion make toll roads that charge EVs and everyone equally
If we are mad about road damage commercial and weight/axle fees (already exist)
If we are mad about pollution and energy use gas taxes seem to work as do the existing electrical demand taxes.

The argument we need new taxes fall flat.

I notice that water rationing reduced water usage to the point that water tax and sewer tax (based on water usage) had to be increased to maintain funding.

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