4K tow package pulling an RV

[The Real Maverick]

That is not something Ford will agree on. Ford goes strictly by the frontal area of the trailer. Truck does not count to them.

Depends on who you ask, what decade it was, and who was running the show at the time.

Bottom line: it is a "ROUGH" estimate; not an absolute. And there's literally thousands of variables.

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[Snox801]

I was referring to the derating necessary for the increases in elevation.

I have a 1996 Ford Bronco with a 5.8 L EFI V8 engine. There is no chance whatsoever that a Maverick with with the hybrid powertrain or the EcoBoost could even approach the pulling power of the Bronco. We had a 1992 F-150 with the 4.9L inline 6 that was a torque monster. My comment was that Ford will claim anything but the Maverick was, and is, basically a passenger vehicle that looks like a truck, and can do some truck type things, but it appears people are trying to stretch the limits of what the vehicle is and I am fearful many might get a sudden surprise on a downhill grade, or see their engine, and/or transmission, fail pulling something like the original poster showed.

The fact the say it can pull 4k means they have tested it for that .i know it nice to try and remember the good old days but dyno numbers don’t lie. The elevation won’t change the trucks that much as the ecoboost is boost and trq limited. So it will always target a set power output. Now that may mean the turbo gets outside of the efficiency r age but it will still indeed make 18psi of boost at elevation.

 

[The Real Maverick]

I recently had some schooling in contract writing. Usually it is mutually agreeable to both sides to have as much grey area as practical.

Saying the bridge must be built by x date; or else, usually won't fly.

The wording will most likely be: "contractor shall make every reasonable effort to have the bridge completed as close to x date as practical. Fines may be imposed, or payments may be withheld for unreasonable delays."

This allows for wiggle room and both sides to save face, while providing reasonable protections.

By putting 4,000 lbs in print, Ford is protecting themselves from unreasonable warranty claims from the 0.01% of people (still hundreds of people) who will tow 8,000 pounds.

At the same time, marking a 6,000 lb capable vehicle 4,000 lb rated, it will protect them from all those "borderline" warranty cases where people towed 3900 and things still broke.

It won't break at 3,900 if it is secretly capable of 6,000. 3,900 is below the margin of error of a 6k truck, but not a true 4k truck.

 

[Nw_adventure]

I recently had some schooling in contract writing. Usually it is mutually agreeable to both sides to have as much grey area as practical.

Saying the bridge must be built by x date; or else, usually won't fly.

The wording will most likely be: "contractor shall make every reasonable effort to have the bridge completed as close to x date as practical. Fines may be imposed, or payments may be withheld for unreasonable delays."

This allows for wiggle room and both sides to save face, while providing reasonable protections.

By putting 4,000 lbs in print, Ford is protecting themselves from unreasonable warranty claims from the 0.01% of people (still hundreds of people) who will tow 8,000 pounds.

At the same time, marking a 6,000 lb capable vehicle 4,000 lb rated, it will protect them from all those "borderline" warranty cases where people towed 3900 and things still broke.

It won't break at 3,900 if it is secretly capable of 6,000. 3,900 is below the margin of error of a 6k truck, but not a true 4k truck.

Legalese is a thing - Escape/sidestep blame if at all possible.

 

[Schaal701]

What’s the largest (length and weight) any of you have towed With the 4K towing package with brake controller on a Maverick. I’m thinking of buying a 19ft trailer with a 3300 dry weight. I’ll keep the total at about 3800 and tongue weight under 400. I know I’m pushing the specs.

I have a fair amount of experience towing. During the COVID years I towed a 7500lb 30ft Imagine RV from Memphis to Key West, to the Grand Canyon. Sante Fe, Roswell NM, the National Parks of Utah, across the Great Divide into Colorado, to Dodge City, through out the Smokey Mountains, Charleston, Richmond Va, Destin Fl, through Atlanta traffic and many more places. I did this with a F150. No problems.

Just trying to figure if this is doable. Thanks!

That is pushing it. Also since it is likely a high profile trailer you should review the Ford online towing guidance for each of their tow vehicles. I have towed a vehicle of similar length and weight but it is a low-profile Trailermanor 2720. Tows at 20ft and stores in the garage at 18 ft. They also make a smaller size, 2518 under 3,000 lbs and tows at 18 ft and stores at 15 ft.

 

[Tiger Dude]

Highly recommend both WDH and sway control device

WDH hitches are highly contested, there is not a consensus.

 

[Maverick123]

WDH hitches are highly contested, there is not a consensus.

Load helpers (airbags, Timbren) only reduce rear end sag

WDH transfers some of the load to the front end, helping steering stability

 

[The Real Maverick]

Legalese is a thing - Escape/sidestep blame if at all possible.

A genuine art form.

 

[Tbone289]

Load helpers (airbags, Timbren) only reduce rear end sag

WDH transfers some of the load to the front end, helping steering stability

Reducing rear end sag also serves to reduce transfer of a portion the vehicle's weight to the rear axle. So, they do a bit more than only reducing sag. But, only a WDH will spread some of the tongue weight to the front axle, as you stated.

In general, load helpers improve the rear suspension's reaction to load, but only a WDH can transfer tongue weight onto the front axle of the tow vehicle and the trailer axles.

 

[The Real Maverick]

I tow heavy, but relatively short length trailer. ( 12 feet inside, like 15 with hitch).

I see absolutely no use for a WDH in this case. Being heavy, and I put a full 400 lb on the ball, I have had zero sway issues either. Lots of miles too.

I added airbags for leveling and a more comfortable ride. Less bounce going over railroad tracks, dips, driveways, an inch or so more clearance, etc.

400 lbs is not a lot for the bed, but it's a lot of leverage being not just behind the rear wheels, but behind the tailgate.

 

[The Real Maverick]

This isn't mine.
But I borrowed it and it tows behind the hybrid pretty well at 65 MPH on level highway.

Pulled it up some really steep residential roads at residential speeds.
Probably in excess of 12% hill for a couple of blocks. I even purposefully came to a dead stop on the big hill to see if I could get rolling again. No problem. Electric torque at low speed coming from a dead stop is probably much better than the 2.0 EB.

To go any faster than 65 MPH you're going to need the EB. But why would you go faster? Gets sketchy in any powertrain.

 

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Don't forget Electric motors are unaffected by altitude. So the gas engine in the hybrid will lose a bit of HP, but not as much as the Ecoboost.

Why would you conclude a forced induction engine would loose more hp than a naturally aspired engine as altitude increases?

 

[LSchicago]

Why would you conclude a forced induction engine would loose more hp than a naturally aspired engine?

Because it has much more to start with. And the electric motor is not subject to the loss. It's why the EB and Hybrids are very close in a 1/4 mile race at or above 5,000 feet. At sea level, the EB is much quicker. Make sense now?

 

[LSchicago]

Ford also leaves the specific motor that's pulling said rig out of the conversation, nice to have large areas of grey -

It's not based on engine.
It's based on 2,000# hitch (up to 25 square feet of frontal area on the trailer)
or 4K tow package (up to 40 Sq. Ft. frontal area on the trailer.

 

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Because it has much more to start with. And the electric motor is not subject to the loss. It's why the EB and Hybrids are very close in a 1/4 mile race at or above 5,000 feet. At sea level, the EB is much quicker. Make sense now?

We're aren't discussing the electric motor. We were discussing engine output. Forced induction can do just that.. introduce more forced air/fuel into the combustion process at altitude, where as the naturally aspired engine will not have that benefit. The EcoBoost has forced induction, it will not be denied air (and fuel) in the same way that the Hybrid will. Not in percentage, nor in absolute hp.

Racing a 1/4 mile on a flat at 5000' has little correlation with towing as elevation climbs. You've got your battery charged and your electric motor fully delivering in the drag race. Towing/Climbing at Elevation is a different animal altogether, you won't get that 'electric boost' and your 'fueling isn't boosted'. Atmospheric pressure is working against the natural aspiration and towing/incline is exhausting the battery (not to be recharged unless you take even more from the engine that is already doing all of the work in short order).

At flat elevation the electric motor does help, as you descend from elevation the regenerative braking is really helping!! However, at climbing elevation you've eaten through the battery very quickly and it's a marginally contributing factor. The electric boost isn't free and isn't always there (like it was that 1/4 mile sprint). It's eaten up quickly by the real work of towing, especially as heavier loads are applied and more incline/elevation encountered.

Once you get over the initial climb to elevation, and then it's just a matter of a few equal ups and downs not varying by much, the hybrid performs on par with ecoboost..becuase you will have the benefit of regen, battery charge and motor contribution. it's a very compelling 191hp at that point. But that largely occurs after that long slug up the hill. I'm not saying it's unpleasant, but you're aware it's really working.

I think we are talking past each other just a bit, you're discussing performance at 5000'... I'm discussing performance getting to 5000' and then staying there. My experience w/ my naturally aspired 4cyl truck previous was not soo much at elevation... is was the struggle of getting to elevation with the line of cars behind me ready to tell me I'm #1 once they had an opportunity to pass. Sorry, those memories stick.

Once we're going down hill, well both vehicles are power net positive... Unfortunately the ecoboost is wasting it generating brake pad heat or transmission heat trying to do engine braking. Meanwhile, the hybrid is storing it all as energy to use later (at the very start of that next climb), which is awesome! Both platforms have their moment to shine. If we only had the powertrain of the Corsair (EB Hybrid!)

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