Hybrid Maverick towing observations [*Hybrid talk only*]

[burger_time]

While I agree that FWDs are not the best for towing, we can look at the specs for other vehicles and say FWD is not the week link.

Escape 1.5 EcoBoost AWD 2000 Lbs tow capacity (same C2 platform as Maverick)
Bronco Sport 2.0 EcoBoost AWD 2200 Lbs tow capacity (same C2 platform as Maverick)
Maverick 2.0 EcoBoost AWD 2000 Lbs tow capacity (without 4K package)

Santa Cruz FWD 3500 Lbs tow capacity (191 HP engine)

I contend it's the engine. Towing a heavy load up a long hill, the battery and electric motors do you no good. You are down to the 162 HP ICE engine.

Also look at the Highlander hybrid though. Similar Atkinson Cycle engine and ECVT but with 3500 lbs towing. Just a bit more power on the ICE. The main differences I see are more total power from the electric motors and AWD. Most of the time I don't see the lower power from the electric motors being a big deal. Just less help from the electric when accelerating or doing small hills. But there's also an interesting limitation in that the ICE has no way of providing direct torque in reverse, so you rely entirely on your electric motor to back up. The ICE can generate the power for it all day long, but you're still limited by the power/torque output of the motor. You probably don't need much in reverse most of the time but could be another factor in the tow rating.

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[Automate]

Also look at the Highlander hybrid though. Similar Atkinson Cycle engine and ECVT but with 3500 lbs towing. Just a bit more power on the ICE. The main differences I see are more total power from the electric motors and AWD. Most of the time I don't see the lower power from the electric motors being a big deal. Just less help from the electric when accelerating or doing small hills. But there's also an interesting limitation in that the ICE has no way of providing direct torque in reverse, so you rely entirely on your electric motor to back up. The ICE can generate the power for it all day long, but you're still limited by the power/torque output of the motor. You probably don't need much in reverse most of the time but could be another factor in the tow rating.

The Highland hybrid ICE is rated for 186 HP, a fair bit more than the Maverick's 162

Good point about the backing up. I did see a post by someone that claimed they could not back up their 40 degree incline driveway in their Mav hybrid even without a trailer. And not because of traction, the motor did have enough torque.

 

[burger_time]

The Highland hybrid ICE is rated for 186 HP, a fair bit more than the Maverick's 162

Good point about the backing up. I did see a post by someone that claimed they could not back up their 40 degree incline driveway in their Mav hybrid even without a trailer. And not because of traction, the motor did have enough torque.

Oh wow I don't think I saw that one. 40 degrees is crazy steep and you probably wouldn't hit this limitation in most normal circumstances. But with a trailer it becomes more of a problem. Especially if you were parking a camper and working around uneven terrain.

Thanks for finding the HP figure for the Highlander. Yeah 24 HP is a decent chunk but not sure if it justifies the huge difference in tow rating. Also keep in mind the Highlander also weighs a decent amount more. Looking quickly I think it was like 600 to 800 pound difference. Maybe other differences in radiator/cooling and suspension but those are harder to figure out and data from OP seems to show engine/transmission cooling is not likely a bottleneck. Like I said earlier I think it'll be really interesting to see what changes are introduced if/when additional towing is offered for the hybrid. Maybe we'll see something when the design refresh comes around.

 

[GPSMan]

Today:

Percent power meter vs. traction motor torque correlation:

The following applies MOST of the time under MOST conditions, with slight (10%?) variations.

When the power needle is between zero and 25% the traction motor torque is all over the map both positive (boost) and negative (regen) based on terrain and pedal position.

Needle at 30% it's a safe bet positive torque is going to the wheels at about 15 lb/ft.

At 50% Electric torque to the wheels is 50 lb/ft.

At 70% Electric torque to the wheels is 70 lb/ft.

At 80% Electric torque to the wheels is 85 lb/ft.

 

[MaveRichard]

Today:

Percent power meter vs. traction motor torque correlation:

The following applies MOST of the time under MOST conditions, with slight (10%?) variations.

When the power needle is between zero and 25% the traction motor torque is all over the map both positive (boost) and negative (regen) based on terrain and pedal position.

Needle at 30% it's a safe bet positive torque is going to the wheels at about 15 lb/ft.

At 50% Electric torque to the wheels is 50 lb/ft.

At 70% Electric torque to the wheels is 70 lb/ft.

At 80% Electric torque to the wheels is 85 lb/ft.

When you are quoting “at 50%….” Are you referring to your time while towing? Curious if this is direct from generator to traction motor or supplemented with battery power.

I have had the SGIII in the truck for 2 days and have already learned a TON about how this hybrid system operates.

 

[GPSMan]

When you are quoting “at 50%….” Are you referring to your time while towing? Curious if this is direct from generator to traction motor or supplemented with battery power.

I have had the SGIII in the truck for 2 days and have already learned a TON about how this hybrid system operates.

Above, towing and in tow/haul mode.
If battery charge is high* (above about 45%) battery will provide the power for torque to the wheels, and instantaneous MPG will be high(er).

Battery 45% or under it's direct: Extra engine rpm for the generator, then that power is sent to the traction motor to aid in turning the wheels.

Tried L going uphill again today.
Did not like L for uphill again.

* footnote: in tow/haul it holds back more reserve battery power 45-55% typical. Whereas in Normal it drains down to 30%

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I agree with you on the fwd being the weak point. I really wish they would get an E-AWD system like the escape and rav4 hybrids have. in towing mode, the rear motor always being engaged would do wonders for that. Have you considered balancing the truck a little bit? for example, putting sand bag in the engine compartment as far forward as possible to counter some of the weight in the back? or is it not nearly bad enough for that?
\

Or maybe add some weight by bolting it to the two threaded "recovery" attachment holes, one on each side at the front?

 

[acelee1895]

Or maybe add some weight by bolting it to the two threaded "recovery" attachment holes, one on each side at the front?

Hybrid recovery holes in the front bottom are not threaded. I’ve used them.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Hybrid recovery holes in the front bottom are not threaded. I’ve used them.

Makes sense. I would ha ve lost bet on that because I remember being surprised when I looked at mine and thought I saw threads. I will look again. They are relatively small, at least on mine and too small for rivnut.

 

[acelee1895]

Makes sense. I would ha ve lost bet on that because I remember being surprised when I looked at mine and thought I saw threads. I will look again. They are relatively small, at least on mine and too small for rivnut.

You may be looking too far back. They are right in front of the front wheel lip and look like this

 

[MakinDoForNow]

You may be looking too far back. They are right in front of the front wheel lip and look like this

Was further back. I was possibly looking at a threaded hole for rail transport tie down ?? Rear attachment for flat tow plate?? Thanks for pic. I am going to pickup my avalanche Tremor tomorrow and may trade my hybrid XLT in on it.

 

[Automate]

This quote about the 2000 lb hybrid towing capacity came from an interview with one of the Ford engineers that developed the Maverick eCVT.

"The Maverick hybrid’s 2,000-lb (907-kg) trailer-tow capability put transmission thermal management into focus. Initially this presented a challenge, the engineers recalled, because taking an all-new electric machine with its own heat-rejection signature and cooling it in the carryover HF45 “was not a straight plug-and-play,” Barbarena noted. Clever internal “tuning” and attention to lubricant flow ensured the hybrid pickup withstands SAE J2807 tow testing and has helped the powertrain team close the tow-capacity gap with Maverick turbo gas-engine models, which is 4,000 lb. (1814 kg). "

Found here https://www.sae.org/news/2022/04/engineering-fords-new-hf45-hybrid-transmission

 

[GPSMan]

The only part that heats up when towing in SEVERE conditions is the generator. As evidenced by scanning the OBDII port under my actual driving conditions.

 

[GPSMan]

Photo of the day - 2022 XLT Hybrid with added equipment.

 

[Vaportrail]

Trailer looks bigger than the rig-

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