Very Low Speed Driving Hybrid Weirdness

[WesM]

There are a couple threads about this hybrid braking issue with the Maverick. The problem is the transition from regen to hydraulic braking is not well sorted in the engineering and software. I plan on doing a video about it soon as I have the same problem also. Ford reached out to me after I posted a thread about it here, took my report and complaint, and then I heard nothing ever again about it.

At best it's unrefined and annoying. The constant jerking and abrupt breaking behavior is going to cause premature wear on suspension. At worst it's potentially dangerous, especially on slippery surfaces like ice.

I think of enough people submit complaints to nhtsa and we get some publicity around this we can get Ford to get off their butt and do something about it.

Thats kinda what I'm hoping, If they reached out to you then Ford knows about the issue.

I would encourage anyone having this issue to report it here, Its an easy to fill out form and may provide Ford with a little more motivation to get this fixed. I consider this to be a pretty significant safety issue, since it affects the responsiveness of the brakes.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem#index

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[MakinDoForNow]

Then it is likely simply down to an over all software glitch of sorts. My previous hybrid (2008 Camry Hybrid) did some strange things right at the max transition speed for full electric and ICE always on speed (42MPH approximately), and it would get jerky and a little funky. Never got fixed and I kind of got used to it.

During low speed braking sometimes it could be a little odd in extended stop and go traffic, but that was actually due to the brake pads/rotors. If you had to make a sudden stop early in the brake pads life if might have caused a groove, which if it's in just the right spot can make them very grabby at the regenerative to hydraulic brake transition. I wonder if the Maverick can have the same issue?

Software glitch of sorts --- In years past I did some real time interrupt driven programming --- not easy nor quick to do --- may take some time --- at least today's chips have multiple processors. They probably have alternate routines ready to implement.

 

[icegradner]

Software glitch of sorts --- In years past I did some real time interrupt driven programming --- not easy nor quick to do --- may take some time --- at least today's chips have multiple processors. They probably have alternate routines ready to implement.

I suppose it would apply more to high end vehicles, but I wonder if there is some machine learning going on as well? Ford may just need to collect more data from vehicles on the road to fix the issue.

 

[kboom180]

Thats kinda what I'm hoping, If they reached out to you then Ford knows about the issue.

I would encourage anyone having this issue to report it here, Its an easy to fill out form and may provide Ford with a little more motivation to get this fixed. I consider this to be a pretty significant safety issue, since it affects the responsiveness of the brakes.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem#index

Will definitely submit a report. Thanks for the link!

 

[TheGriffin1313]

Was wondering if anyone else had noticed this. There have been some posts about clunking or thudding at low speeds. My Maverick certainly does that when dropping down into what I assume is 1st gear. Makes me think the transmission is not long for this world. There's also something I haven't heard much about. The fact that my Maverick doesn't want to stop at low speeds. The best example I can come up with is a situation at a drive-thru. Moving forward in line which gets you up to maybe 1 mph and the truck just doesn't want to stop. It's like fighting me (in electric mode). It's not until I really press hard on the brake that it finally seems to give up and then I come to an abrupt stop. Beyond everyones head bobbing forward and looking like an idiot that can't drive, I swear at some point, this truck is going to hit something in front of it.

This is much more rare but have experienced it a few times. Coming to a stop, the ICE and electric engine seem to be arguing with each other and trying to push the truck forward. The brake pedal vibrates (sort of like ABS working) and the vehicle shakes a bit. Turning the car off and then back on fixes the problem. However, not something ideal when on the road with other drivers.

Has anyone else experienced this? Feel free to pull this down if it's been discussed at length. I just hadn't found anything yet.

**Edit** Thank you for reminding me this transmission does not have a first gear to downshift to haha

the first 1000 miles the truck will have odd behaviours during the brake in process according to the owner's manual.

I once at like 200 miles on the od noticed a oscillating giration going very slow lurching forward. I stopped turned off the truck restarted it went away and has not done it again since. at 1462 took possession on April 13th

 

[MakinDoForNow]

I suppose it would apply more to high end vehicles, but I wonder if there is some machine learning going on as well? Ford may just need to collect more data from vehicles on the road to fix the issue.

Depends on your definition of learning. When I picked mine up I was told it would take several hundred miles to "act right" and if the battery was disconnected it would have to do it again. So there are some data tables kept based on at least one driver. I have no idea what Ford is doing but as a programmer I would like to know which driver is behind the wheel. Obviously the mav should know as it can tell when you take your eyes off the road and flash the screen "driver needs to take a nap". Did it to me once when I was pouring coffee refill from thermos. Went into limp mode for 2-3 miles or so until I acted like I should.

 

[kboom180]

the first 1000 miles the truck will have odd behaviours during the brake in process according to the owner's manual.

I once at like 200 miles on the od noticed a oscillating giration going very slow lurching forward. I stopped turned off the truck restarted it went away and has not done it again since. at 1462 took possession on April 13th

I thought about this since the first "clunk" happened with the salesman as I took it for a spin when it arrived at the dealership. However, at 2k miles, nothing much has changed. I think the clunking has even increased unfortunately.

 

[icegradner]

Depends on your definition of learning. When I picked mine up I was told it would take several hundred miles to "act right" and if the battery was disconnected it would have to do it again. So there are some data tables kept based on at least one driver. I have no idea what Ford is doing but as a programmer I would like to know which driver is behind the wheel. Obviously the mav should know as it can tell when you take your eyes off the road and flash the screen "driver needs to take a nap". Did it to me once when I was pouring coffee refill from thermos. Went into limp mode for 2-3 miles or so until I acted like I should.

I'm sure whatever kind of learning it may be it's likely nothing highly advanced in entry level vehicles. I say that because for the most part vehicle chips are typically on much older nodes (32nm/14nm maybe?) with low transistor counts to keep costs down. That said, who knows for sure, vehicles have been learning at least some aspects of driver behavior, typically for throttle/bake use behavior, for a long time, even MY08 vehicle did so it's nothing new.

As for driving nannies like what you talked about, that sounds annoying at best.

 

[r100gs91]

There are a couple threads about this hybrid braking issue with the Maverick. The problem is the transition from regen to hydraulic braking is not well sorted in the engineering and software. I plan on doing a video about it soon as I have the same problem also. Ford reached out to me after I posted a thread about it here, took my report and complaint, and then I heard nothing ever again about it.

At best it's unrefined and annoying. The constant jerking and abrupt breaking behavior is going to cause premature wear on suspension. At worst it's potentially dangerous, especially on slippery surfaces like ice.

I think of enough people submit complaints to nhtsa and we get some publicity around this we can get Ford to get off their butt and do something about it.

My brakes also exhibit some of these issues especially the jerky sensation right before stopping. I think I have found a work around which requires some practice. Just before stopping ease up slightly on the brake pedal. The truck still comes to a stop but without the abrupt dive forward. Been doing this for a few weeks in the hope it becomes natural without to much thought.

My 2¢

 

[Shay]

My brakes also exhibit some of these issues especially the jerky sensation right before stopping. I think I have found a work around which requires some practice. Just before stopping ease up slightly on the brake pedal. The truck still comes to a stop but without the abrupt dive forward. Been doing this for a few weeks in the hope it becomes natural without to much thought.

My 2¢

Yeah in daily driving I have adopted a way of using the brakes that avoids the major grabs, clunks, and abrupt engagement but it still happens sporadically.

The problem is that I am uneasy to throw the keys to a friend of family member to use the truck without taking them for a ride and giving them a class on how to get around the goofy brake behavior. That's dangerous and unacceptable for any new vehicle.

 

[jtpc2021]

Was wondering if anyone else had noticed this. There have been some posts about clunking or thudding at low speeds. My Maverick certainly does that when dropping down into what I assume is 1st gear. Makes me think the transmission is not long for this world. There's also something I haven't heard much about. The fact that my Maverick doesn't want to stop at low speeds. The best example I can come up with is a situation at a drive-thru. Moving forward in line which gets you up to maybe 1 mph and the truck just doesn't want to stop. It's like fighting me (in electric mode). It's not until I really press hard on the brake that it finally seems to give up and then I come to an abrupt stop. Beyond everyones head bobbing forward and looking like an idiot that can't drive, I swear at some point, this truck is going to hit something in front of it.

This is much more rare but have experienced it a few times. Coming to a stop, the ICE and electric engine seem to be arguing with each other and trying to push the truck forward. The brake pedal vibrates (sort of like ABS working) and the vehicle shakes a bit. Turning the car off and then back on fixes the problem. However, not something ideal when on the road with other drivers.

Has anyone else experienced this? Feel free to pull this down if it's been discussed at length. I just hadn't found anything yet.

**Edit** Thank you for reminding me this transmission does not have a first gear to downshift to haha

Yeah, can’t say I’ve experienced that. I mean, there is a noticeable transition from regenerative braking to disks when coming to a stop, but in my experience, the disk brakes are grabby. Took me a little bit to get used to the brakes, but they function as intended. Haven’t felt like electric is fighting the braking or something like you described.

 

[kboom180]

Yeah, can’t say I’ve experienced that. I mean, there is a noticeable transition from regenerative braking to disks when coming to a stop, but in my experience, the disk brakes are grabby. Took me a little bit to get used to the brakes, but they function as intended. Haven’t felt like electric is fighting the braking or something like you described.

Interesting that you seem to have a well working example. I honestly can't imagine Ford engineers test driving the hybrid, having this happen and being like, yep it's good to go! Since my last post, I made a trip to Target where I came way too close to a parking light lamp pole. It seems like a matter of time until something bad happens.

 

[TheGriffin1313]

I thought about this since the first "clunk" happened with the salesman as I took it for a spin when it arrived at the dealership. However, at 2k miles, nothing much has changed. I think the clunking has even increased unfortunately.

yes not normal at all and it may be the misaligned axle shaft that may be the cause. There were some builds with assembly issues.

Please let us know the outcome of what happens.

 

[YOBY]

I experience all the quirky things going on with the brakes, but I had a new experience last week while driving at 55mph. I had to make a left turn at a crossover and the truck was not slowing down quick enough and I had to slide past the intersection. My wife screaming at me and I'm standing on the brakes, and it would not lock up. Drove down to next crossover and things were fine. I have made that turn hundreds of times and that was the first time I ever slid past the turn.

That one is on me for now.

Complex problem that requires some smart engineer to team up with the software group to solve quickly.

 

[Egz]

Yea, grabby clunking brakes is something I've experiences in low speed traffic in my hybrid too.

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