Pay-per-mile vs Gas Tax

[Darthie]

I hope pey per mile happens in Florida. Not sure how the non residents would be charged.

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[tiktokbrainrot]

Sounds like they want to subsidize a special interest with billions of dollars of income to solve a problem that doesn’t exist.

1. 99% of road damage is caused by vehicles (and rural non-vehicle equipment) weighing above 10,000lbs. If a private car has a “fair share” it’s near zero.

2. In the entire country road taxes of all types (including registration and vehicle sales/title) DO NOT pay for a majority of roads with actual road funding overwhelmingly coming from GENERAL FUNDS.

3. In situations where vehicles are tracked it’s usually used for nefarious reasons to double insurance and other unavoidable costs for no reason. Tracking is never beneficial to anyone and never reduces cost.

4. Commercial trucking lobbies push heavily for these types of systems to offload their “fair share” to consumers who use roads minimally.

5. High fixed registration, title and per mile schemes on privately owned sedans/coupes are regressive hurting the middle class and poor and may well be unconstitutional as being a feigned factor.
In the cases where driving isn’t possible for a person to afford it’s much more likely said driver will simply stop paying for title, plates and insurance.

in every case where insurance was made mandatory and registration fees went up dramatically, collections actually did not increase as much as expected because the number of uninsured/unregistered vehicles skyrocketed.

good reason for private plates to only cost the notory and to keep insurance cheap and non-mandatory.

increased enforcement has proven impossible and extraordinarily expensive and isn’t a solution either as it never works.

The rest of the world laughs at this concept.

In the UK, your uninsured, unregistered car gets towed, and you have 14 days to make it right or it gets CRUSHED. Not sold, CRUSHED. If they catch your car on camera, they will follow it to your house and put a tow order in with the local authorities. Other places in the EU like Germany are even stricter. If you get pulled over for expired tags, your car gets towed. No ifs, no buts, no second chances. That sucker is going.

Same with Sovereign Citizens. It's not exclusive to the US but in other countries none of this stuff passes muster and adherents are very rare. Because its not allowed to fester. No chances, no court case, just get towed and pay the fines or lose your car.

Guess which countries dont have a big issue with uninsured/unregistered motorists? We already dedicate sufficient resources into fixing this problem, but we dont follow through with punishment, that is why it has become such a huge issue.

 

[MXGOLF]

The biggest issue is that WA state will not regulate the increases in any meaningful way. They will continue with a high gas tax and just increase the per mile charge as well. The fund all sorts of crazy stuff. There would be no guarantee that the funds would be only for roads. It will end up in the general fund.

The WA state constitution prohibits an income tax. It can only be considered if it is equally applied to all residents regardless of income but they still keep trying to push through an income tax on "the rich". So far it has been shot down but they keep changing the wording to make it anything but an income tax.

WA state is purely blue and has been democrat run for decades so taxes are high and there is no end to their appetite for more of our cash. With no regulation or control on these particular taxes, it will skyrocket and make it impossible to drive here. Boeing already has one foot out the door and other major businesses will start to look elsewhere as the taxes increase.

Also, the citizens of WA state have passed a $30 car tab initiative which was shot down due to the single subject rule. The $30 car tab proposal has been passed, I think, 7 times and the legislature has ignored it and it has never been implemented.

It is one of the highest overall taxed states in the union even without an income tax. Excise taxes, property taxes etc etc. It is tough to live here.

We are moving to Idaho in about 30 months when my wife retires.

Reminds me of Oregon. Pretty messed up! Oregon want's a pay per mile (excuse me the stupid Governor want's) and want's higher registration and title fees. Big battle going on now. In reality all us drivers are losers and can't do anything due to our elected officials and there ways to wiggle more money out of there constituents, unfairly I might add. We vote no in issues and they find a way to screw us even when we as tax payers and residents say no. We still have DEQ for brand new vehicles???? More money of course. Stupid. OK rant over as could go on and on but won't.

 

[Prickly Pear]

I hear ya, but since you are in Oregon, is pay per mile a thing, either voluntary or mandatory, and are you doing it?
Below is a link to the information that state is sharing on their plans. Supposedly the electrification fee for tabs, $75 for hybrids and %150 for EV will go away. Other than having to report mileage and how much gas you buy it seems more fair than our current system, especially if you don't put too many miles on a hybrid or EV
https://wstc.wa.gov/studies-surveys/road-usage-charge/

 

[Ray_B]

I just read thru this entire thread and can summarize for any new viewers.

#1 If you have a hybrid or EV our government will ADD to our TAX burden.

#2 Our governments have hired countless cronies to invent complex plans and administrators to enforce collection.

#3 The simple solution would be to TAX the CHARGING stations (mentioned at beginning of thread) but that would cancel out #2 so nevermind.

 

[Mudduck]

Could always buy one of these....

https://superkilometerfilter.com/product/ford-maverick/

 

[Prickly Pear]

#3 also wouldn't give them their pound of flesh from the folks that charge at home.

Something is going to have to be done - especially if more people move to hybrids and EV's. Lowering the CAFE standards and encouraging people to drive gas guzzlers, combined with the administrations war on EV's and renewable energy won't replace the revenue they are going to lose in the future. We can argue about how much waste and abuse there is in government, but the roads need to be maintained somehow and the money has to come from somewhere. I saw today that my county, Snohomish WA, is considering adding $20 to yearly tabs to help pay for roads.

 

[HoiToid]

Voluntary in Virginia; BUT, and it's a big BUT:::
They put tracking device on your vehicle, and then you give your credit card to a Third Party vendor ( who knows how secure that is?) to bill you based on mileage traveled.
I think it's basically to penalize Hybrid owners because of the much better MPG.
( supposedly because we're not paying our fair share of gas taxes).
There is an alternative chart that can be used based on EPA window sticker MPG estimate that can be used to calculate the "extra" charge when renewing registration fees.
So much for buying a Hybrid to save a few bucks on fuel!!!! Not a fan of another way to track my driving, so I use the EPA chart.

 

[tiktokbrainrot]

I just read thru this entire thread and can summarize for any new viewers.

#1 If you have a hybrid or EV our government will ADD to our TAX burden.

#2 Our governments have hired countless cronies to invent complex plans and administrators to enforce collection.

#3 The simple solution would be to TAX the CHARGING stations (mentioned at beginning of thread) but that would cancel out #2 so nevermind.

Taxing the charging stations does not fix it, most EV owners charge at home. And adding the surcharge to electric bills would punish everyone regardless of miles driven.

Realistically the only way to fix the issue, aside from methods that require invasive tracking of everybody or voting people in who will reduce the tax and more responsibly use the funds, would be the current system of significantly higher registration costs for EV and hybrid owners.

 

[rlhdweman]

I hope pey per mile happens in Florida. Not sure how the non residents would be charged.

Easy, in the future we are going to have pay per mile AND gas tax, this way when the state gets hungry they just raise both rates! Non residents pay through the tax, residents get to pay both in their respective states.

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