2.5L Hybrid Engine - 20% Ethanol Experiment

am_fm_radio · Nov 30, 2024

Here in Kansas, Gas Stations called JUMP START sell 10%- 20%-30% and 85% Ethanol blends. One is only a mile from my ranch in town at the traffic light.

The larger percentage of ethanol, the less costly a gallon of gas is. usually about 12 cents less per grade. They call the

10% - regular 87 octane
20%- mid-grade 89 octane
30%- high grade 91 octane
85%- flex fuel

Well I picked up my new 2024 LT hybrid September 27. I bought the Maverick in Detroit and drove it back to Wichita Kansas getting 37.5mpg. Upon arriving home I filled the tank with regular to see what I'd get "city" driving.. which was 39.2mpg. Then I had the oil changed to Mobile 1 0W-20 and filled the tank with regular for a recheck of mileage, a full tank after oil change. My calculation I got 528 miles on that tank and 40.08 mpg.. Same kind of daily driving. So about 1 additional mpg because of synthetic. I've seen that on every car I've owned for 40 years with Mobile 1. Even my Duramax Diesel.

OK - Then I put a tank of the 20% JUMP START "mid-grade" and here are the results.- odometer now 2734 miles and my mpg with 20% ethanol is 37.25 mpg...a drop of 2.38mpg.. or 7%.....

Since gas is dropping right now, it just does not pay.. as in th etime to burn a tank of gas, prices dell that 7%.
HOWEVER..

I had a Mercedes C250 turbo I just sold to a nephew. Mercedes said to run 91 octane. I would get 31mpg with it with PREMIUM that had 10% ethanol.. and East of the Mississippi where you can get 100% gasoline, I'd get 34mpg... Here locally, I could run the 30% ethanol and get 27-28 mpg.. With the Mercedes, the difference between 10% premium and 30% Jump Start was over 50-60 cents a gallon. when gas was $3.25 a gallon last year.. So 30% Jump Start was worth it then, in that turbo Mercedes. I ran 30% in the turbo for 4-5 years, no issues. But 20% is not worth it in my Maverick.

Now-- in my Ford C-class RV, my Duramax truck and my Mercedes, I found an extra MPG when I went to a K&N air filter.. With only 2800 miles on the ODO on the Maverick; I'm not going to order a K&N till the factory air filter gets dirty. Even then, I may hold off.. as I'll look for K&N filters on the blogs here and recommendations with a hybrid.

My Gal pal has a 2015 Honda CRV, I turned her on to running 20% 4-5 years ago.. No problems and she has over 100K miles. She drives like a great grandmother-- because she is.

Larry
The OLD GOAT Ranch
Mulvane, KANSAS

dochawk · Nov 30, 2024

running more ethanol than your vehicle is specced for can damage it.

I don't know what the current limits are on the maverick.

Your 7% loss at 20% is just about what would be expected as compared to 0%.

Carlitos_92 · Nov 30, 2024

Page 172.

Ford Maverick 2.5L Hybrid Engine - 20% Ethanol Experiment IMG_6353

Master Blaster · Nov 30, 2024

The fuel requirement is for TopTier fuel, with no more than 15% ethanol and no methanol. https://www.fordservicecontent.com/...N&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&buildtype=web
Nowhere on the JumpStart website does it specify that their fuel has TopTier certification, just that its somehow better. So the only JumpStart-brand fuel that is less likely to damage your engine or fuel delivery system is the 10% 87-octane fuel that they sell, and I'd be pretty worried that it has lots of other stuff in it to cause carbon buildup and oil dilution issues. Time will tell I guess...

First Sergeant · Nov 30, 2024

Manual says not to use ethanol over 15%, or E85. I personally don't care for the ethanol products and try to find just good old gasoline, regular stuff. Just for giggles, I experimented a couple months with 91 octane. No huge difference and the price to me did not justify the ever so slight improvement on the gas mileage, or performance.

Edit: seems several of us posted at the same time!

Ford Maverick 2.5L Hybrid Engine - 20% Ethanol Experiment 1733006306471-5k

sva50233 · Nov 30, 2024

Thank you for posting the image, i've been using 87 octane at the recommendation of a member from a year ago, but never saw that it was the recommended fuel from the factory. It has saved me a lot of money. I often wondered whether I would get better MPG with higher octane and whether it would be worth the money

dochawk · Nov 30, 2024

sva50233 said:
I often wondered whether I would get better MPG with higher octane and whether it would be worth the money

The short answer is "no, octane doesn't improve mpg, as it is not a measure of energy." The longer version is "but . . .".

Octane is purely a measure of resistance to detonation without spark. If you're not knocking, increasing octane won't make a difference at the same engine settings.

Boosting octane does, however, allow compression to be increased, turbo boost to be increased, and timing to one advanced, all of which may improve mileage.

Like the 1990s Cadillac Northstar, Ford ecoboost and powerboat engines monitor closely for pre-knock, and react to prevent knock--Northstar by backing off on timing, and ecoboost by both the and cutting boost.

It has been reported (but I don't think verified) that the ecoboost (and presumably powerboost) is tuned for 97 octane, and backs off to what it can do with what it has. Also, it is apparently able to some adjustments cylinder by cylinder with the addition of extra sensors a while back!

several years ago guys on the cadillac forums seemed to conclude that with the old big block 472 /500 of the late 60s to 70s, that if they ran on premium, they could advance the timing enough that the improved mileage covered the extra cost of the gas (which is important when driving something for which double digit mpg is a rarity!).

On the f150 companion site, this has been hashed out ad nauseum recently: https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/a-difference-in-gasoline-brands.29452/

Finally, ethanol has only 2/3 the energy by volume of gasoline, which works to roughly 3% less energy running 10% ethanol than pure gasoline, thus 3% lower mileage. Ethanol, however, has higher octane than gasoline, so in an adjustable engine, the penalty may be less than 3%. Heck, maybe it goes away, but I've never seen a credible claim of such.

Suzukiridr14 · Dec 1, 2024

am_fm_radio said:
Here in Kansas, Gas Stations called JUMP START sell 10%- 20%-30% and 85% Ethanol blends. One is only a mile from my ranch in town at the traffic light.

The larger percentage of ethanol, the less costly a gallon of gas is. usually about 12 cents less per grade. They call the

10% - regular 87 octane
20%- mid-grade 89 octane
30%- high grade 91 octane
85%- flex fuel

Well I picked up my new 2024 LT hybrid September 27. I bought the Maverick in Detroit and drove it back to Wichita Kansas getting 37.5mpg. Upon arriving home I filled the tank with regular to see what I'd get "city" driving.. which was 39.2mpg. Then I had the oil changed to Mobile 1 0W-20 and filled the tank with regular for a recheck of mileage, a full tank after oil change. My calculation I got 528 miles on that tank and 40.08 mpg.. Same kind of daily driving. So about 1 additional mpg because of synthetic. I've seen that on every car I've owned for 40 years with Mobile 1. Even my Duramax Diesel.

OK - Then I put a tank of the 20% JUMP START "mid-grade" and here are the results.- odometer now 2734 miles and my mpg with 20% ethanol is 37.25 mpg...a drop of 2.38mpg.. or 7%.....

Since gas is dropping right now, it just does not pay.. as in th etime to burn a tank of gas, prices dell that 7%.
HOWEVER..

I had a Mercedes C250 turbo I just sold to a nephew. Mercedes said to run 91 octane. I would get 31mpg with it with PREMIUM that had 10% ethanol.. and East of the Mississippi where you can get 100% gasoline, I'd get 34mpg... Here locally, I could run the 30% ethanol and get 27-28 mpg.. With the Mercedes, the difference between 10% premium and 30% Jump Start was over 50-60 cents a gallon. when gas was $3.25 a gallon last year.. So 30% Jump Start was worth it then, in that turbo Mercedes. I ran 30% in the turbo for 4-5 years, no issues. But 20% is not worth it in my Maverick.

Now-- in my Ford C-class RV, my Duramax truck and my Mercedes, I found an extra MPG when I went to a K&N air filter.. With only 2800 miles on the ODO on the Maverick; I'm not going to order a K&N till the factory air filter gets dirty. Even then, I may hold off.. as I'll look for K&N filters on the blogs here and recommendations with a hybrid.

My Gal pal has a 2015 Honda CRV, I turned her on to running 20% 4-5 years ago.. No problems and she has over 100K miles. She drives like a great grandmother-- because she is.

Larry
The OLD GOAT Ranch
Mulvane, KANSAS

I would use what Ford recomends until your warrenty runs out. Having a hybrid and using 87 octane unless you drive over 15K a year wouldn't save you enough to cover any damage that may occur. Just my opinion.

MetalsGeek · Dec 1, 2024

My MPG increased over the first few tankfuls. It's hard to say how much of this is due to powertrain break-in as opposed to driver learning to use a hybrid. Numbers on this graph are 4.4% higher than measured at the pump. Shorter trips definitely hurt from engine warm-up.

Ford Maverick 2.5L Hybrid Engine - 20% Ethanol Experiment MPG

The Real Maverick · Dec 1, 2024

am_fm_radio said:
Here in Kansas, Gas Stations called JUMP START sell 10%- 20%-30% and 85% Ethanol blends. One is only a mile from my ranch in town at the traffic light.

The larger percentage of ethanol, the less costly a gallon of gas is. usually about 12 cents less per grade. They call the

10% - regular 87 octane
20%- mid-grade 89 octane
30%- high grade 91 octane
85%- flex fuel

Well I picked up my new 2024 LT hybrid September 27. I bought the Maverick in Detroit and drove it back to Wichita Kansas getting 37.5mpg. Upon arriving home I filled the tank with regular to see what I'd get "city" driving.. which was 39.2mpg. Then I had the oil changed to Mobile 1 0W-20 and filled the tank with regular for a recheck of mileage, a full tank after oil change. My calculation I got 528 miles on that tank and 40.08 mpg.. Same kind of daily driving. So about 1 additional mpg because of synthetic. I've seen that on every car I've owned for 40 years with Mobile 1. Even my Duramax Diesel.

OK - Then I put a tank of the 20% JUMP START "mid-grade" and here are the results.- odometer now 2734 miles and my mpg with 20% ethanol is 37.25 mpg...a drop of 2.38mpg.. or 7%.....

Since gas is dropping right now, it just does not pay.. as in th etime to burn a tank of gas, prices dell that 7%.
HOWEVER..

I had a Mercedes C250 turbo I just sold to a nephew. Mercedes said to run 91 octane. I would get 31mpg with it with PREMIUM that had 10% ethanol.. and East of the Mississippi where you can get 100% gasoline, I'd get 34mpg... Here locally, I could run the 30% ethanol and get 27-28 mpg.. With the Mercedes, the difference between 10% premium and 30% Jump Start was over 50-60 cents a gallon. when gas was $3.25 a gallon last year.. So 30% Jump Start was worth it then, in that turbo Mercedes. I ran 30% in the turbo for 4-5 years, no issues. But 20% is not worth it in my Maverick.

Now-- in my Ford C-class RV, my Duramax truck and my Mercedes, I found an extra MPG when I went to a K&N air filter.. With only 2800 miles on the ODO on the Maverick; I'm not going to order a K&N till the factory air filter gets dirty. Even then, I may hold off.. as I'll look for K&N filters on the blogs here and recommendations with a hybrid.

My Gal pal has a 2015 Honda CRV, I turned her on to running 20% 4-5 years ago.. No problems and she has over 100K miles. She drives like a great grandmother-- because she is.

Larry
The OLD GOAT Ranch
Mulvane, KANSAS

I previously had an Escape Hybrid.
Very similar Atkinson engine.

Living in the "corn belt" I also had access to all those blender pumps.

I found lowest COST PER MILE was always with 25% ethanol. Which I had to approximate because pumps usually go 20% or 30%.

Miles per gallon always goes down with ethanol. But studies have shown, most cars on the market younger than 2004's or so run great in the 20% to 40% ethanol range.

The 15% is a rule. A regulation based on extensive testing and manufacturer voluntary consensus.

The 15% is not a limit. Not in a physical, engineering, or mechanical way. More will not normally create any harm. The industry just voluntarily agreed to put 15% stickers on everything, mostly based on EPA pressure.

Think of it like the tow rating.
Your truck's tow rating is not the same as your truck's tow limit.

Do you think the math comes to exactly 2000 lbs? Why not 2489 or some other mathematically supported value?

No. This truck is in a relative "class" of vehicles, that in general, comfortably tow about 2000 lbs.

KEMeyer · Dec 1, 2024

My '24 EB performance is noticeably better with premium gas (no ethanol), so that's what I use. Cost difference is insignificant for me since I only drive the Mav 3K - 4K miles per year.

Bob The Builder · Dec 1, 2024

KEMeyer said:
My '24 EB performance is noticeably better with premium gas (no ethanol), so that's what I use. Cost difference is insignificant for me since I only drive the Mav 3K - 4K miles per year.

I prefer my corn when it is on the cob. :crackup:

I too run 91E-Free. My EcoBest loves it, it's like Jack Daniels to the injectors.

The Real Maverick · Dec 1, 2024

Bob The Builder said:
I prefer my corn when it is on the cob. I too run 91E-Free. My EcoBest loves it, it's like Jack Daniels to the injectors.

Ironically, the opposite is true.

Ethanol is great cleaner.

KEMeyer · Dec 2, 2024

The Real Maverick said:
Ironically, the opposite is true.

Ethanol is great cleaner.

True, but Techron Concentrate Plus Fuel System Cleaner does the job for me. I wouldn't need it if I used Top Tier fuel, but I use Hy Vee fuel points, and we don't have any Top Tier stations around here that accept the Hy Vee discount.

Master Blaster · Dec 2, 2024

The Real Maverick said:
The 15% is not a limit. Not in a physical, engineering, or mechanical way. More will not normally create any harm. The industry just voluntarily agreed to put 15% stickers on everything, mostly based on EPA pressure.

No, it is a chemical limit. Alcohol is a very good solvent. In higher concentrations it will eat brass and alloy housings and fittings and destroy more than a few plastics. In lower concentrations this does not happen in any significant way. That's why the 15% number is used, and why most winter gas is limited to 10% ethanol. That's also why all small engine manufacturers do not want any alcohol in the fuel, as the fuel paths in the zinc carburetor castings and the brass floats get totally destroyed.

2.5L Hybrid Engine - 20% Ethanol Experiment

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